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	<title>A Song of Ice and Fire: The George R.R. Martin Forum</title>
	<description>Discussion forum for A Song of Ice and Fire, other books by George R.R. Martin and fantasy in general.</description>
	<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org</link>
	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Why do people hate Dany?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66792-why-do-people-hate-dany/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Just rereading the Dany chapter in aSoS where Dany strikes down the slavers of Astopor and frees the Unsullied. Rousing stuff, especially as a female reader, newer to the fantasy genre. <br />
Her progress in aDwD is less heroic. Hell it isn't even progress really. I understand being frustrated with her. But I don't understand the Dany haterade that sometimes flows on this board. <br />
She's teaching herself and learning as much as she can in circumstances that she was never expected to participate in, much less succeed in. Similar to Arya . Sure she makes mistakes, but shes a hormonal teenager after all. So why the hate?]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66792-why-do-people-hate-dany/</guid>
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		<title>What were the Baratheon bannermen thinking?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66495-what-were-the-baratheon-bannermen-thinking/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok I'll try to keep this simple: I don't understand the Baratheon bannermen. Almost all of them declared themselves for Renly, rallied by his call that Joffry is no true king. If that is such an atrocity, why would they want to put another untrue king on the throne (because Renly has literally no lawful arguments either)? They moved awfully quickly allying with the Tyrels when you would have expected them to be more divided. I don't recall any of them continuing to support Joffry. It makes you wonder if Renly (along with the Tyrels) wasn't planning a coup already and were simply waiting for a period of political instability to make their move.<br />
<br />
I understand with the support of the Tyrels and their army of 100 000 men they didn't have to be scared to become rebels, after all they were in a good position to win. But they had to have a large dislike towards Stannis to deny his rightful claim to the throne (if they attacked Joffry on the basis that he's born of incest, they're also admitting Stannis is the true king but just ignoring it) but suddenly after Renly's death, they're awfully brave and willing to fight against far worse odds. Lannister alone had more men and Tyrel was always going to be a liability because they had House Florens on their side and Florens and Tyrel are like natural enemies. It didn't take a political genius to realize the Tyrels weren't going to sit still and accept their ploy which would have seen Margaery on the throne simply because Renly died. The more I think about it the less sense their decisions make.<br />
<br />
I've tried to apply the point of view of a Baratheon bannerman sitting in his castle to better understand.<br />
<br />
"Okay, we're the most powerful House, the King is ours."<br />
"Robert died? No problem, he has heirs. We're still safe."<br />
"Joffry isn't a Baratheon? Oh well, he's still a Baratheon in name, he can't change that. We're still the most powerful."<br />
"Renly and Stannis declare themselves King? If we fight for them and win, at most a Baratheon will be King again. What do we have to win even though the odds are good?"<br />
"Our main motivation is that Joffry is an untrue King? What does putting Renly on the throne change about that?"<br />
"Renly and Stannis want us to kill each other off while we're already rebels? What good will that do us?"<br />
"Renly is dead? The Tyrels have left us? We're to ally with House Florens, so the Tyrels won't like Stannis becoming King so he will favour them? Why risk an attack on King's Landing? Why fight for Stannis if we didn't support his claim from the start?"<br />
<br />
It didn't really work.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66495-what-were-the-baratheon-bannermen-thinking/</guid>
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		<title>What potential plot development do you dread the most?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66733-what-potential-plot-development-do-you-dread-the-most/</link>
		<description>I just have one.  Every time I imagine Bran speaking to another character elsewhere  through a weirwood tree, probably as a deus ex machina to stop something from happening at the last minute, I truly want to die.  Please god, do not let this happen.</description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66733-what-potential-plot-development-do-you-dread-the-most/</guid>
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		<title>The Malazan Book of the Fallen</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/54444-the-malazan-book-of-the-fallen/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[I've got a copy of Gardens of the Moon, as yet unread, and I'm wondering if it's worth picking it up.<br />
<br />
I'm sure there must be quite a few boarders who've read the entire series, and my question is:  is it any good?<br />
<br />
I've heard mixed reports, and it would be great to get some feedback.<br />
<br />
Adios,<br />
Pete]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/54444-the-malazan-book-of-the-fallen/</guid>
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		<title>EURO 2012 SIGN UP</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66724-euro-2012-sign-up/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[It is time to organize a board Great Tradition. During each World Cup and Euro competition, those who wish to support a team sign up to be randomly assigned a country whose national team will be participating in the competition.<br />
<br />
There are a few legitimate and positive reasons for doing this (e.g. it cuts down on a lot of flaming and actual bad feelings), but the most compelling reason to do this is that<em class='bbc'> it's really fucking fun</em> to shout gibberish at people in a language you may or may not actually speak, invent absurd avatars to go along with your assigned country's national ambitions and character, and generally feel invested in more than one team in the competition.<br />
<br />
Sign up will go through Monday, May 28th. Either Ran or Mr. X (depends on who has the time) will randomly assign a country to each boarder and we'll post those assignments around June 1 or 2. That'll give everyone a week to get their research and avatar wrangling before the start of competition, which is June 8.<br />
<br />
Post in the thread if you want to participate.<br />
Let the <del class='bbc'>madness </del>panda fucking begin!<br />
<br />
Participants:<br />
Xray the Enforcer<br />
Mr. X<br />
Teng Ai Hui<br />
One horny panda<br />
Mercenary Chef<br />
Kairparavel<br />
Nasrudin the Many Monikered<br />
Jhogo<br />
Ericxihn<br />
WrathofSQL<br />
Horza<br />
Inigima<br />
JonAS<br />
lacuna<br />
Datepalm<br />
Hereward<br />
Biter<br />
Red Snow<br />
Baxus<br />
Mormont<br />
Rane<br />
Mindonner<br />
LordMountainGoat<br />
Raja<br />
ljkeane<br />
Iceman<br />
Daeric<br />
Slick Mongoose<br />
KiDisaster<br />
Ser Plissken<br />
koudoulis<br />
yawron<br />
Stannis' sense of humor<br />
Soylent Brown<br />
Tormund Midgetsbane<br />
Leia<br />
HP Loveshaft<br />
So1ar<br />
Lord O' Bones<br />
Antonius Pius<br />
The Onion Maid<br />
kuroishi<br />
john<br />
Faraday<br />
Malt!!!<br />
Jamie L]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66724-euro-2012-sign-up/</guid>
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		<title><![CDATA[What is the Saddest Thing You've Ever Read in a Book?]]></title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66602-what-is-the-saddest-thing-youve-ever-read-in-a-book/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Title is self-explanatory really. Out of every book you've ever read, what part was the saddest for you. Did it actually make you cry or just have watery eyes? Why was it sad?<br />
<br />
<br />
For me its the end to the novel <em class='bbc'>The Killing Ground</em> by Graham McNeill when Ultramarines Captain Uriel Ventris is forced to mercy kill the Lord of the Unfleshed. The Unfleshed are mutants that were created by the Iron Warriors and abandoned to die, and in <em class='bbc'>The Killing Ground</em> after escaping the Iron Warriors's homeworld with Ventris and Pasanius Lysane they are possessed by vengeful spirits and forced to do their bidding. Ventris tries to help them despite the Imperium's policy on mutants being kill on sight, but is forced to admit near the end that they have to be put down before they can kill anymore innocents. With a kill-team at his side Ventris kills the three remaining Unfleshed and confronts the Lord who is freed after the ghosts are banished, but he is still vulnerable to other psychic phenomina and must be put down.<br />
<br />
What makes the scene so sad is that The Lord of the Unfleshed is perfectly aware of what he has done and is horrified, collapsing to his knees and crying before a glass fresco of the Emperor whom he and the other Unfleshed still worshipped as the God-Emperor, even though the Imperial Church would say the Emperor despises their ilk. Ventris offers him some comfort and before he can make the shot the sun rises and the light from the fresco shines on the Lord of the Unfleshed and reflects his true face before he was mutated, a young boy. The Lord cries out that the Emperor really does love him, to which Ventris quietly agrees before shooting him in the back and killing him with a meltagun.<br />
<br />
Closest I ever came to crying when reading a book. There have been other moments that made me sad but that was the one that made me the saddest.<br />
<br />
<br />
LotN]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66602-what-is-the-saddest-thing-youve-ever-read-in-a-book/</guid>
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		<title>Oldest piece of electronics you have, that you still use.</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66791-oldest-piece-of-electronics-you-have-that-you-still-use/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[So i recently had my mouse die on me, it was a first generation Microsoft Optical mouse. I had that mouse and aggressively used it non stop for 10 years solid, then one day it just decided it's time had come. That got me thinking about what else do i have that is old but i use regularly?.<br />
<br />
We have got a lot of tech heads here and gamers, so i ask what is the oldest piece of electronics that you still use regularly?.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66791-oldest-piece-of-electronics-you-have-that-you-still-use/</guid>
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		<title>How I Met Your Mother 3</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/58617-how-i-met-your-mother-3/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The last one got locked...<br />
 <br />
I liked the last episode though the dating the old therapist thing is still a bit creepy.<br />
 <br />
I think it's mostly serving to show the dysfunctional nature of their relationships though and I think it's playing into the season premiere where Victoria? warned Ted about his relationship with Robin being a hinderance to his relationships.<br />
 <br />
But, yeah their incestuous co-dependent type of relationship can be a barrier to developing a new relationship, and not necessarily because of romantic feelings that are unresolved but because it's really hard to break into a group that is that involved with each other.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/58617-how-i-met-your-mother-3/</guid>
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		<title>Lady Stoneheart and the Stark kids</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66605-lady-stoneheart-and-the-stark-kids/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Lady Stoneheart, aka UnCat, seems fairly adamant and resoulute on finding Arya and Sansa.<br />
So ignoring the theories of whether or not this will happen, lets just say she manages it. How would their reuniting go down?  <br />
Lets not forget that Catelyn is now a mute, croaking zombie-like creature with hideous scars and a swollen, rotten face.<br />
<br />
Arya wouldn't give a damn about it, easily guessed, I believe that upon learning the Faceless Men sliced off the faces of the dead and wore them as masks she responded with "So what" <img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Good old Arya. So she would not care about what Catelyn looks like now so long as she is her mother and alive. Do you agree? Though she might be mistrustful.<br />
<br />
Sansa is a different matter. She would not easily adapt to UnCat at all, if she was willing to believe it was her at all. It was Sandor's hideous scars that kept her distanced from him, if he had been handsome I imagine their relationship would have been entirely different and allowed her to imagine him... romanticly. So, to be blunt, Sansa has some shallow values at times, though she has developed since then. Would that affect her upon meeting Lady Stoneheart?<br />
<br />
And what of the unlikely event of Lady Stoneheart finding <em class='bbc'>Rickon? </em>Oh... Shaggydog just might eat her... <img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_emoticons/default/stillsick.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stillsick:' /> Rickon is fiesty and fierce to a new level and utterly out of control (At least as we last saw him) and beforehand did not react well to change. So all this does not connect well to a loving unitited meeting between him and his undead mother.<br />
<br />
As for Bran... He likely already knows through spying through tree eyes.<br />
Does Jon deserve mention? He's already seen dead people walking before, its nothing new to him.<br />
<br />
What do you think?]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66605-lady-stoneheart-and-the-stark-kids/</guid>
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		<title>Survivor 24</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61710-survivor-24/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Next week, <em class='bbc'>Survivor: One World</em> will begin.  This season the contestants will again be divided into tribes of all men and all women.  Also, there is a new HII rule -- the finder has to give it to a member of the opposing side.  This should make for some interesting social dynamics this time around.  The thing though I am most excited about is that no one in the cast list has the last name Hantz.  By looking at the cast photos, if Survivor stays true to its recent form, <a href='http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/photos/81172/survivor-one-world-cast/81161' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>this girl</a> will be voted off first.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 06:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61710-survivor-24/</guid>
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		<title>Will Melisandre give Jon the Kiss of Life?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66768-will-melisandre-give-jon-the-kiss-of-life/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Almost no one believes Jon died at the end of a Dance with Dragons.<br />
... or maybe I should say, almost no one believes Jon will stay dead after dance with Dragons.<br />
<br />
So what do you think happened or will happen?<br />
<br />
I can only think of a few options:<br />
<br />
1. He died, and won't be coming back.<br />
2. He died and Melisandre will resurrect him with a fiery kiss.<br />
3. It wasn't Jon at all, but some sort of trick by Melisandre.<br />
4. It was a dream. - this would be awful.<br />
<br />
we know there are some weird things happening with the way Ghost was acting, but does this mean that Jon wasn't really Jon, <br />
or did Melisandre or the skinchanger simply find a way to interfere with Jon and Ghost's bond.<br />
<br />
any other options?]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66768-will-melisandre-give-jon-the-kiss-of-life/</guid>
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		<title>So who is Arya going to kill?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66761-so-who-is-arya-going-to-kill/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[I don't think GRRM would send her to what is essentially an assassins school without putting her new found murders skills to good use. So who do you guys think Arya is going to target when/if she returns to Westeros?<br />
<br />
Would anybody be shocked if she was the one who took out Cersei or even old man Frey?<br />
<br />
What do people think she is going to do with her new skill set?]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66761-so-who-is-arya-going-to-kill/</guid>
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		<title>What three names would you say?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66731-what-three-names-would-you-say/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[If you were given Arya's chance, what three names - out of everyone in ASOIAF (as of the end of ADwD) - would you say?<br />
For me, I would pick:<br />
Varys<br />
Euron Crow's Eye<br />
Cersei Lannister]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66731-what-three-names-would-you-say/</guid>
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		<title>Mance Rayder</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53268-mance-rayder/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[I came up with a new suggestion for Mance Rayder on the drive to work.  It's either really inspired or quite the opposite.<br />
<br />
Mance needs to have a very charismatic presence, and it would be a great help if the actor was an excellent singer, also.<br />
<br />
<a href='http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000347/' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Tim Curry</a><br />
<br />
The only question is, would he at 65, be too old to play Mance Rayder?  If so, is there another part that anyone thinks that he could play?<br />
<br />
GH]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53268-mance-rayder/</guid>
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		<title>R+L = J v. 24</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/65579-rl-j-v-24/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[A few of the posts on the last page of the <a href='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/64562-rlj-v23/' class='bbc_url' title=''>previous thread</a>.  Have at it!<br />
<br />
<p class='citation'><a class='snapback' rel='citation' href='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3145972'><img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png' alt='View Post' /></a>Alia of the knife, on 21 April 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:</p><div class="blockquote"><div class='quote'>
Agreed.<br />
<br />
The problem I have with Rhaegar and Ashara is, I suppose from a literary standpoint, what would be the point, or end game here?<br />
What plot device, or purpose would this new, and very complicated story line bring, as Rhaegar still has some explaining to do with Lyanna?<br />
<br />
While I do think there will be a deconstruction of Rhaegars character, (especially the way Dany hero-worships him), and question the mysterious nature of Lyannas feelings in all this, I do by and large think he is a positive character.<br />
And I think that R and A would take his character to truly unsympathetic.<br />
<br />
Just a few things.<br />
<br />
I noted that disussion said Ashara danced with several men, and Martin probably means for these individuals to be the possible suspects, but I also noted that discussion stated one of them was a Dragon, Rhaegar, but that was not correct. Rhaegar did not dance with Ashara.<br />
They were:<br />
A Griffin, (JonCon- not likely the Father).<br />
A Red Snake, (Oberyn)<br />
A white coat, (Possibly Elias Uncle who was a KG, but who also kept a paramour).<br />
A Quiet Wolf, (Ned), but only on the request of Brandon, who she most likely became "acquainted" with.<br />
<br />
Ashara was also a member of a Dornish House known for it's honor, and first and foremost, Bannermen to the Martels and owe them their loyalty.<br />
<br />
Also, why wait until Harrenhal?<br />
They were already a clique' at Court, so if Rhaegar wanted to engage in that, then he already would have, and most likely all the KG, including Selmy would have known, because there is no reason for Rhaegar to hide his affairs- the KG guard, not judge.<br />
Aerys didn't hide his behavior.<br />
<br />
I also tend to think Elia was already pregnant at the time of Harrenhal, perhaps in the early stages, but nonetheless, at that point, Rhaegar didn't know that this child would be his last.<br />
(Though, I can see the possibility that Elia had miscarriages before, and their marriage was becoming strained under the pressure, but I think he would be more apt to set her aside than engage in the kind of subterfuge).<br />
Also, the level of that kind of baby switching would need all kinds of privacy, and they had less privacy then than now, with all eyes on them, and probably many of them not friendly no matter how pleasant Elia was.<br />
It would involve the Maester too which I doubt he'd give Elia Martel more loyalty than Rhaegar Targaryen.<br />
<br />
I tend to think Rhaegar fell hard and fairly quick for Lyanna. The way Selmy says, "Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna...." just the possessiveness of that statement suggests to me that perhaps it may have been obvious to many.<br />
<br />
There is also an interesting scene in a Jon POV where he is thinking about his relationship with Ygritte, and wonders if his "Father" felt the same shame and ectasy, (paraphrasing), in his Mothers bed.<br />
Of course he's thinking of Ned, but this could be a look back into what we'll see as some guilt on Rhaegars part for betraying his vows to Elia, though it was a political marriage and he made no claims to love Elia.<br />
<br />
As to why Ashara might turn to a Stark,(Ned), his Brother Brandon would be the common denominator between the two, and while Ned might be resentful of perhaps Brandon and Ashara,(and there is a hint of what might be resentment in his statement to Cat about everything being meant for Brandon), he'd still remain the loyal Brother, but be sympathetic to Ashara.<br />
If Rhaegar, or anyone else did this to her, Ashara would hardly confide in a man, and one she had just met.<br />
<br />
So, I guess IMHO, the Rhaegar and Ashara theory is just too too much, with Lyanna thrown into that mix as well.<br />
Now, if there WAS a Targaryen likely to dishonor Ashara, I'd put my money on Aerys.<br />
That also might be a reason why Arthur Dayne, an honorable KG chose to engage in a speculated coup with Rhaegar, playing at politics, something KG aren't supposed to do as I don't think just being Rhaegars best friend is reason enough as R would be King one day in due time.<br />
<br />
I tend towards Aegon being a Blackfyre given the signifigance of Bloodravens presence, and the emphasis on the Golden Company, or somehow descended from Aerion Brightflame and a female Blackfyre as that blood would be the only kind good enough for him to marry, even if it's illigitimate.<br />
He did leave behind a legitimate son, who was passed over in the succession.<br />
So, he's a dragon, just not Rhaegars, and given Varys sowing dissention between Rhaella, Rhaegar,(who were supposed to be good for the realm), and Aerys, I speculate he's working from within for the Blackfyre cause, and he can still think he's doing well for the realm if he believes the Blackfyres to be better.<br /></div></div>
<p class='citation'><a class='snapback' rel='citation' href='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3145994'><img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png' alt='View Post' /></a>The Imp With A Pimp Limp, on 21 April 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:</p><div class="blockquote"><div class='quote'>
<a href='http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Borders_Signing_Oregon/' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.westeros....Signing_Oregon/</a><br />
<br />
Seems to me like there's no real genes to pass on as much as there is some reeeaaallllyyy basic genetics. More of a bloodline kind of thing, instead of alleles and dominant/recessive traits<br /></div></div>
<p class='citation'><a class='snapback' rel='citation' href='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3146018'><img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png' alt='View Post' /></a>Jem, on 21 April 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:</p><div class="blockquote"><div class='quote'>
For the record, I don't <em class='bbc'>really</em> think it was Rhaegar, it was just another idea I was floating. And at Harrenhal, I think Rhaegar was more busy playing politics to "fall in love" with Lyanna. Plus, I also don't think Rhaegar was in on a potential Ashara-Elia baby switch, I never said that.<br />
<br />
But for interest sake, lets imagine this scenario. Elia was a political marriage for Rhaegar, he didn't love her, though he probably did like her. Elia was sick for a long time after the birth of each of her children. After she gave birth to Rhaenys, she was probably worried that Rhaegar was going to throw her over. To make matters worse, Tywin Lannister had his hot young daughter at court, both of them just waiting to swoop in on Rhaegar the minute Elia fell down dead. To keep Rhaegar from straying, Elia may have engaged the assistance of her friend Ashara. She may have asked Ashara to keep Rhaegar company, escort him to balls, go out riding with him, that sort of thing. And the agreement may or may not have extended to keeping Rhaegar entertained in the bedroom. From Elia's perspective, it would be better to have Rhaegar running around with a woman she trusts than to have him fall into the clutches of someone like Cersei Lannister. So I am thinking that there may have been an 'understanding' between Elia and Ashara and Rhaegar.<br /></div></div>
<p class='citation'><a class='snapback' rel='citation' href='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3146053'><img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_images/asoiaf/snapback.png' alt='View Post' /></a>Apple Martini, on 21 April 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:</p><div class="blockquote"><div class='quote'>
I don't think it disproves R+L=J. It seems like the Stark wargs of this generation were helped along "magically." That's why there are so many of them despite the almost literal impossibility. Something else is at work there and it's not just genetics. But even if it were, no reason why a brother and a sister couldn't both pass it on.<br /></div></div>]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/65579-rl-j-v-24/</guid>
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	<item>
		<title>Funny fake letters</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/42397-funny-fake-letters/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[So I had a funny idea: write imaginary ravens from one character to another. Make sure to place the context in. You don't need to stick to the characters persona, and you can include characters that aren't in the main series (so Dunk, is ok. and yes so are Rhaeger and Lyanna.<br />
<br />
Example:<br />
<br />
From: King Robb Stark, King of the North and Riverlands <br />
<br />
To: Big T<br />
<br />
Re: Whispering woods <br />
<br />
Hey,<br />
<br />
Just sending out some friendly messages! I have all these extra ravens now thanks to your son and well I can't very well have them just sitting around. <br />
<br />
Anywho, I just wanted to thank you for your early birthday present, and I hope to see you around <img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />!<br />
<br />
King Robb<br />
<br />
P.S. Tell your grandson his father is ok and enjoying the hospitality of house tully. Unfortunately he's behaving most ungratefully.<br />
<br />
P.P.S. Also please tell your grandson that next time we see each other we can use real swords instead of wooden ones. Tell him I can't wait <img src='http://asoiaf.westeros.org/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/42397-funny-fake-letters/</guid>
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	<item>
		<title>Has anyone tried to use a brodart on their limited edition meisha merlins/ or subterranean press?</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66667-has-anyone-tried-to-use-a-brodart-on-their-limited-edition-meisha-merlins-or-subterranean-press/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi there, <br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone has tried to use a brodart, archival cover for their meisha merlins/ subterranean, ASoIaF dust jackets?  Does it work with the slipcase?  Thanks.<br />
<br />
J]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66667-has-anyone-tried-to-use-a-brodart-on-their-limited-edition-meisha-merlins-or-subterranean-press/</guid>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>On Asha and Theon</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66787-on-asha-and-theon/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[So in AFFC, we find out that Asha actually thought that her father's plan to seize and hold the North was stupid and wouldn't work. She more or less agrees with her Nuncle that they should have allied with one of the other Kings and gotten some lands as part of the deal for helping them.<br />
<br />
Umm, hello?<br />
<br />
Theon just brought you guys an offer from Robb Stark offering you not only Lannister lands, but <em class='bbc'>recognition of your independence from the Crown</em>. It was right there on the table, all you had to do was sign. But Asha doesn't even seem to try to talk her father out of it, or even bring up the deal with Theon, even though she agrees with him. Doesn't that seem kind of, I don't know, cowardly?]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66787-on-asha-and-theon/</guid>
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	<item>
		<title>Character Portrayal Ratings</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/65724-character-portrayal-ratings/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[When I read the books, I got an image of how each character looked, how their voice sounded, and how they displayed their personality.  Some of the characters in the show don't look, sound, or act anything like how I imagined them when I was reading.  Yet, some characters are done so well, that I now picture the actor/actress when I read the books in place of my previous vision.<br />
<br />
Here is how I would rate a few of the actors playing the characters in my mind:<br />
<br />
Ned<br />
Appearance: 70% accurate<br />
Voice: 85%<br />
Personality: 80%<br />
<br />
Catelyn<br />
A 65%<br />
V 75%<br />
P 55%<br />
<br />
Jon<br />
A 90%<br />
V 80%<br />
P 80%<br />
<br />
Daenerys<br />
A 70%<br />
V 50%<br />
P 80%<br />
<br />
Arya<br />
A 95%<br />
V 85%<br />
P 80%<br />
<br />
Joffrey<br />
A 100%<br />
V 90%<br />
P 95%<br />
<br />
Stannis<br />
A 40%<br />
V 80%<br />
P 70%<br />
<br />
Melisandre<br />
A 90%<br />
V 70%<br />
P 75%<br />
<br />
Theon<br />
A 90%<br />
V 85%<br />
P 75%<br />
<br />
Tyrion<br />
A 90%<br />
V 50%<br />
P 90%]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/65724-character-portrayal-ratings/</guid>
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	<item>
		<title>Small Moments/Scenes You Hope For</title>
		<link>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66793-small-momentsscenes-you-hope-for/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[As a counterpart to the things you dread thread, I was thinking about little moments or scenes I would like to see - i.e., not major plot points like who will rule Westeros at the end or which villain will die, or whatever.<br />
<br />
1)  I don't need some sappy scene where Randyll Tarly recognizes that he's been sort of a dick to Sam and apologizes or whatever, but I would like to see him hear someone else talking about some accomplishment of Sam's in a non-jokey way (i.e., not mocking Sam the Slayer business).  I know Sam gets on some people's nerves, but I think for a self-acknowledged coward, he has been pretty brave.<br />
<br />
2)  I would like to see Lady Stoneheart reclaim some of Catelyn's humanity and have some kind of "moment" with one of her children, even (especially?) if it doesn't involve interacting with them directly.<br />
<br />
3)  I would like to see Jaime and Brienne have a romantic moment of some kind, whether it is a small kiss, a simple expression of genuine affection, or getting it on. <br />
<br />
4)  For Christ's sake, can Arya and Sansa see each other again?  My god!  Another priority is Arya/Jon.  Sansa and Jon don't seem as close, so it's not something I "hope" for as actively.  Maybe Sansa/Bran.  All of them together at the same time might be too cheesy.<br />
<br />
5)  Tyrion/Jaime reunion of some kind, hopefully not hateful.  I love their relationship in the book and it makes me sad the show can't really do it justice, because so much of it is just their thinking of each other over the many pages between Tyrion's capture by Cat and Jaime's return to King's Landing.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 05:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66793-small-momentsscenes-you-hope-for/</guid>
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