Crackpot Theory Alert: Aerys commanded Rhaegar to Abduct Lyanna

[KingofSothoryos]

As is suggested in the text, Rhaegar planned some great meeting at the Tourney Of Harrenhal with all the Great Houses in attendance because of Aerys's erratic behavior. Varys gets wind of it and tells Aerys who decides to attend. I believe Aerys attends, blows up Rhaegar's plans to have a council of Great Lords and then informs him about his suspicions about other conspiracies by some Great Lords and how he needs Rhaegar to help him put them down. Aerys becomes suspicious of the Knight of the Laughing Tree and commands Rhaegar to find the mystery knight, but Rhaegar only finds the armor. Many suspect that Rhaegar deduces that it was Lyanna.

Now I'm a believer or more of a questioner of the actions of Rickard Stark prior to the Tourney. Understanding that most Great Lords tend to marry and foster their children to their bannermen to strengthen their loyalties, a Lord that looks outward for marriages and fostering is seen as ambitious. Like Lady Dustin mentions, Rickard had been very busy. Rickard Stark had betroved his heir to the eldest daughter of the Lord of the Riverlands. He fostered his second son at the Eyrie, building ties with his other southern neighbor in the Vale. With the betroval of his eldest daughter to Robert, the Lord of the Stormlands and Lysa Tully bethroved to Jaime Lannister, Rickard Stark would be in a powerful position with strong ties between 5 of the 7 Kingdoms. Imagine how abducting and holding his daughter hostage could keep Rickard in check, in case he had any treasonous ideas. Also this would be a way to draw Rickard out from the North, since invading through Moat Cailin was a non-starter, much less if the Vale, Westerlands and Riverlands sided with the North.

I believe Aerys becomes suspicious of the Knight of Laughing Tree, of course a sign of the North and that's why he sends Rhaegar after the mystery knight. I also believe Rhaegar falls in love with Lyanna and/or sees her as the fulfillment of the PtwP prophecy after he abducts her, they fall for each other at the Tower of Joy and Jon Snow is conceived. But at first he crowns Lyanna Queen of Love and Beauty to let her know, he knows she was the mystery knight and the true champion of the Tourney.

Now when Brandon delivers himself, Elbert Arryn the heir to the Vale and the heirs to Tully bannermen to the Red Keep demanding to kill Rhaegar, Aerys has his chance to punish the conspirators. He arrest all of them and gets Rickard, probably the chief conspirator, to come answer for his treason. After executing the Starks, he calls for the heads of Ned and Robert Baratheon. Since they were both attendees at the Tourney at Harrenhal, Aerys had reason to believe they were in on the conspiracy. Benjen, I believe was too young to be implicate, plus it would allow a Stark to remain in Winterfell who is too young to rebel. Aerys has Jaime as his hostage in the Kingsguard to keep Tywin in check. I think its worth noting that neither Hoster, Catelyn nor Edmure Tully were at the Tourney eventhough it was in the Riverlands and may have suggested to Aerys that they were just unwitting participants in a normal favorable marriage for a 1st daughter of a Great Lord. Jon Arryn could prove his loyalty by delivering Robert and Ned's heads.

Now this theory is to resolve a few nagging questions about Lyanna's abduction, primarily how insane an act it was for the Prince to abduct the daughter of a Great Lord who is promised to another Great Lord, just because he was infatuated with her. Or why Lyanna would run off with Rhaegar when she was bethroved to Robert. But if you look at it as a master stroke by Aerys to blow up the treasonous conspiracy of the Stark/Arryn/Baratheon/Tully/Lannister alliance, where Rhaegar was following orders and they don't fall in love until after the abduction, everyone's actions make more sense. That's why Aerys would back Rhaegar when Brandon comes looking for Lyanna, because Rhaegar wasn't acting alone. And thats why Aerys doesn't send for Rhaegar before the Battle of the Trident. It was because Aerys ordered Rhaegar to abduct and hold Lyanna hostage to break a conspiracy started by Rickard Stark, which Rhaegar might have opened himself up to at the Tourney of Harrenhal, if Varys hadn't uncovered it and warned Aerys.

This I think is especially GRRMish, as from the beginning we've been told that Aerys was mad and evil while the Starks were good and honorable when it would be brilliant if it was the Starks who started the rebellion, proving the unreliabilty of character POVs and how the victors write the history of wars.

Thoughts?

[roxWolfox]

I just googled Lyanna/Aerys theories, and this was the first one to pop up. :cheers:

I too had come to the conclusion that Rhaegar and his KG were sent to find the KotLT, but I thought perhaps someone had figured out it was Lyanna and either told Aerys who then sent his son and some KG to track her down, or told Rhaegar who believed by this time that his father was capable of anything when meting out punishment. Which would make the 'abduction' more of a rescue mission. I'm at a loss when trying to detemine how the following events fit in (e.g., the tower of joy) so far, though. :P

[Stormland's Fury]

Tower of Joy.

Joy.

You can't spell Greyjoy without joy.

Several Greyjoys got grey/silver hair, including Theon.

Greyjoys = secret Targaryens confirmed.

[roxWolfox]

I have book one in front of me, and it never explains how the tower of joy received its name. Ned mentions the name in a rather offhand way after giving the orders for his daughters to be kept safe, and the remains/bones of Jory and the others to be given over to the Silent Sisters.

"It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, ..."

It was basically a crumbling ruin, and seemingly easy to tear down. Nothing more than that. Only the presence of Lyanna and three KG makes it worthy of mentioning, in Ned's PoV. The place isn't given any importance whatsoever as seen by the lack of uppercase/capital letters.

And what an odd name for a man's of Rhaegar's disposition to give ...

[oursisthefury69]

Rhaegar was obsessed with a Prophecy that included him having 3 kids. Fact

Pycelle told him Elia was too weak to give birth to a third child. Fact

He didn't need any commands

[MyLittleFinger]

Anything to let Rhaegy off the hook.

[Rill Redthorn]

And what an odd name for a man's of Rhaegar's disposition to give ...

Not if his relationship with Lyanna was the only joy in his life, it wasn't. He did die murmuring her name...

[roxWolfox]

Rhaegar was obsessed with a Prophecy that included him having 3 kids. Fact

Pycelle told him Elia was too weak to give birth to a third child. Fact

He didn't need any commands

I'm not even thinking about RL/J. I'm trying to piece together the events.

Like, did Rhaegar et al have to make an emergency stop? Did someone in the group point at the crumbling tower and chose that spot for shelter because Lyanna couldn't travel any furthur? Or did they set up camp there long before allowing the time it took for the Lyanna/Rhaegar coital activities?

Not if his relationship with Lyanna was the only joy in his life, it wasn't. He did die murmuring her name...

Rhaegar died with a woman's name on his lips.

[Rill Redthorn]

Rhaegar died with a woman's name on his lips.

Apparently the new ASOIAF phone app that's out specifies he said "Lyanna," although of course there could be errors in there.

Edit: I just confirmed this. Under Rhaegar's entry in the app, it says "Rhaegar was killed after giving Robert a serious wound. He would die with Lyanna's name on his lips."

So there's that. Up to you whether you want to give the app official status or not.

[Musashisamurai]

Although I do agree with everything you said, I do think that there was a conspiracy to kill/depose Aerys and most likely place Rhaegar on the throne. And Harrenhal was to be the planning ground, but Varys warned Aerys, who decided to come. Its said it was the first time he left Kings Landing since Duskendale.

It also explains Rickard's southron ambitions, and the whole alliance system. The North married to the Stormlands and Riverlands, Riverlands Married to the Vale and the North, and the North and Stormlands fostered at the Vale. Strong Vale/North/Stormlands/Riverlands alliance there. Half of the 7Ks reperesented, with Dorne sure to support Rhaegar and Elia over Aerys too. Mace was at the tourney, and probably was being scouted out to see if he'd support them.

I personally think that Rickard was originally supportive of Rhaegar, but then R/L happened and he thought Rhaegar was mad too. Or that when Steffon Baratheon died, the whole plan when SNAFU. Or both.

We do know though, that Rhaegar "loved" or felt strong enough about Lyanna that that was his last words. We know that Jon is likely their son, and that the Kingsguard presence indicates that Jon was Rhaegar's heir after Aegon's death. More than that, and anything definitive we don't know

[Fool of a Book]

So why would GRRM go to such trouble to associate blue roses with an abducted Winterfell Maiden and a disguised King in the North if Rhaegar has nothing to do with a disguised King in the North? Maybe Rhaegar was trying to prevent an abduction, not commit one.

[roxWolfox]

I haven't read the App, only the books. The line I was semi-quoting is from this:

"Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name."

I haven't found any reference to Rhaegar's death scene except that one. Barristan believes Rhaegar to be in love with Lyanna, so many (myself included) consider his last word to be "Lyanna". But other than reading between the lines, there is no solid evidence for that belief. ;)

[Stormland's Fury]

I haven't read the App, only the books. The line I was semi-quoting is from this:

"Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name."

I haven't found any reference to Rhaegar's death scene except that one. Barristan believes Rhaegar to be in love with Lyanna, so many (myself included) consider his last word to be "Lyanna". But other than reading between the lines, there is no solid evidence for that belief. ;)

Well he certainly didn't murmur Rosebud ;)

[roxWolfox]

Well he certainly didn't murmur Rosebud ;)

:lol:

No, but if you attempt to look at that death scene through Robert's eyes, what comes to mind?

To the romantic mind/soul, if the last word uttered is a woman's name, one would say that the dying person loved that woman above all others (even their own children). Wouldn't Robert have mentioned hearing the 'woman's name' to Ned? "The b@st@rd's last word was Lyanna! How dare he! After raping her for 6 months or so!"

I'm not arguing that Rhaegar didn't love Lyanna, I'm just considering (for lack of true evidence one way or another) the events that caused Rhaegar to 'kidnap' Lyanna which eventually led to the battle at the tower of joy.

[Rill Redthorn]

:lol:

No, but if you attempt to look at that death scene through Robert's eyes, what comes to mind?

To the romantic mind/soul, if the last word uttered is a woman's name, one would say that the dying person loved that woman above all others (even their own children). Wouldn't Robert have mentioned hearing the 'woman's name' to Ned? "The b@st@rd's last word was Lyanna! How dare he! After raping her for 6 months or so!"

I'm not arguing that Rhaegar didn't love Lyanna, I'm just considering (for lack of true evidence one way or another) the events that caused Rhaegar to 'kidnap' Lyanna which eventually led to the battle at the tower of joy.

I doubt anyone, even Robert, actually heard Rhaegar say anything as Rhaegar died. They were standing in the middle of a river in the middle of a battle, extremely noisy things both of them. The only reason we know Rhaegar said anything was due to Dany's vision in the House of the Undying.

[Ygrain]

I haven't read the App, only the books. The line I was semi-quoting is from this:

"Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name."

I haven't found any reference to Rhaegar's death scene except that one. Barristan believes Rhaegar to be in love with Lyanna, so many (myself included) consider his last word to be "Lyanna". But other than reading between the lines, there is no solid evidence for that belief. ;)

Somewhere, there is a confirmation from GRRM of the name being indeed Lyanna, pre-App.

[roxWolfox]

Somewhere, there is a confirmation from GRRM of the name being indeed Lyanna, pre-App.

Ah, much like the 'what word did Brienne call out' to Lady Stoneheart. I get it.

And again, thanks Ygrain (rox looks at notches on asoiaf info tab -- Ygrain 2, rox 0) :P

[Ygrain]

Ah, much like the 'what word did Brienne call out' to Lady Stoneheart. I get it.

And again, thanks Ygrain (rox looks at notches on asoiaf info tab -- Ygrain 2, rox 0) :P

Lol, dear, I've been around certain threads looong, so little wonder that some pieces of info have rubbed on me :-)

[Alaynsa Starne]

Errmerrgerrrsh I've actually thought about this. Mostly because from what little we've read about Lyanna, she seemed like a pretty down to earth girl. It never made sense to me that she ran off with the prince who had a wife and children, especially considering her comments about Robert. It's a pretty vague situation, and I don't think any of us can say for certain what exactly happened, but to me this seems just as likely as Rhaegar kidnapping and raping her or those two crazy love birds throwing practicality and duty to the wind and running off to elope. It's interesting that the OP takes both versions of what people in Westeros think happened and combines them.

[KingofSothoryos]

So why would GRRM go to such trouble to associate blue roses with an abducted Winterfell Maiden and a disguised King in the North if Rhaegar has nothing to do with a disguised King in the North? Maybe Rhaegar was trying to prevent an abduction, not commit one.

I believe the blue roses/abducted Winterfell maiden/disguised King of the North all are parallels to foreshadow R+L=J.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/101849-parallels-between-rhaegar-lyanna-jon-snow-ygitte/