Do anybody feel sorry for Lysa ?

[Gneisenau]

:idea:Going on a guess here but I don't think Robb is particularly one of your favorite characters.

I always found it quite detestable when Robb talks about using Sansa for a political marriage, when he decides to marry Jeyne for love.

[Colonel Green]

I always found it quite detestable when Robb talks about using Sansa for a political marriage, when he decides to marry Jeyne for love.

Robb didn't marry Jeyne for love. He married her to protect her honour.

Regarding the OP, yes, I feel sorry for Lysa. She got screwed over by the system. Ultimately she became pretty hateful, but the actions of others brought her much of the way there.

[Mad Monkey]

Robb doesn't really marry for love in the books though, does he? I always thought it was an honor thing.

Incidentally, I think Lysa's relationship with Jon is a case study on how a political marriage can go horribly wrong even without the overt malice of any of the people involved. Arryn was old enough to be her great-grandfather, and was an incredibly busy and important man (he was basically the King of Westeros in all practical sense). If there was ever a chance that he could have reached out to her, there's no way he would have had the time to do it. And on Lysa's part, she was damaged by what her own father did to her; if Arryn had been warm, would she have even been able to respond to it?

I think the ideal political marriage in Westeros is something like Ned and Cat -- a marriage that neither party ever intended to get into, but turned out to be loving and affectionate.

[Gneisenau]

Robb doesn't really marry for love in the books though, does he? I always thought it was an honor thing.

If it was just honor, Robb could have promised as King to help Jeyne find a suitable husband.

[Sansa_Stark]

She lets Marillion go about doing his scumbag things, so no.

[Burning down the House]

_{My problem with Lysa is she didn't understand the times she lived in. She is not going to be able to marry for love. Women in her society are used to make alliances. It sucks. I know but she thought she was special.}

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

She lets Marillion go about doing his scumbag things, so no.

I wish I could say he got what he deserved but......damn. GRRM pulled another Theon with Marillion I think. I wanted him and Theon to suffer/face justice for what they have done but Christ I feel bad for them now.

[BitsOfBrains]

The Vale could have made the difference in the war of the five kings.

She killed her husband, a man who by all accounts was a stand up guy.

She was born to a life of privileged then married into one of the greatest houses in the realm.

I get she had a traumatic experience with the moon tea, but at some point you gotta get over it.

She had a better life than 99.99% of the world. did absolutely NOTHING to earn or deserve it, and just walked around trying to fuck over the people who gave it to her.

Nope, she got what she deserved.

[shiola]

Yes, I feel pity for her being forced to abort her child and then being forced to marry a man older then her father to live a life full of miscarriages and stillbirths.

Yep, this.

She was still a crazy bitch, to be sure, but I think a lot of that was caused by her fucked up life

[shiola]

The Vale could have made the difference in the war of the five kings.

She killed her husband, a man who by all accounts was a stand up guy.

She was born to a life of privileged then married into one of the greatest houses in the realm.

I get she had a traumatic experience with the moon tea, but at some point you gotta get over it.

She had a better life than 99.99% of the world. did absolutely NOTHING to earn or deserve it, and just walked around trying to fuck over the people who gave it to her.

Nope, she got what she deserved.

Oh, yes, how lucky she was to be married into House Arryn-- being shipped away for a forced marriage with a man significantly older than her. She should have loved every second of that, and all the stillborn children he gave her. And you're right-- a woman should get over a forced abortion. Absolutely. How selfish and pathetic of her to let that effect her psychological well-being.

[Pod The Impaler]

I feel sorry for her, despite all the bad things she did and her general bitter craziness.She lived for one thing - the idea that Littlefinger loved her. Bad enough to be so manipulated, but in the end he callously breaks her heart and drops her off a mountain, so that her last thoughts (and it was a long way down so I bet she had time for it) would be immense shock and regret that it was all for nothing.

Lysa was not a nice person, but a fairly sad one.

[Minsc]

_{My problem with Lysa is she didn't understand the times she lived in. She is not going to be able to marry for love. Women in her society are used to make alliances. It sucks. I know but she thought she was special.}

And yet it seems to many fans find sympathy with Arya when she is upset with the idea that she is just meant to be married off as a lady as opposed to being allowed to run wild like she wants.

Simply, Lysa's wishes were no more selfish then either Arya or Lyanna's tomboy status.

[Annara Snow]

Yes, I feel pity for her being forced to abort her child and then being forced to marry a man older then her father to live a life full of miscarriages and stillbirths.

This.

ah, yes, that's the spirit!

What exactly did she do that was so bad that she deserves to burn for all eternity(hehehe)? Not coming to her idiot nephews aid? It was a smart move on her end, look at how he ended up. Got his dumbass killed, his home burned, and his fammily displaced and powerless. Yeah, lysa TOTALLY should have stepped into that!

Her worst move was murdering her husband, from a moral standpoint, as well as a political one. But, as I said, she had serious issues, and LF the scumbag that he is took advantage of her. I feel bad for lysa, this gung ho "SHE SHOULD BURNEEEEEEEEE IN HELL!!!!" thing is childish.

Eh, actually, while I wouldn't go as far to say she should burn in seven hells etc., she was a pretty awful person.

You forgot that she not just murdered her husband, but lied to Cat, framed the Lannisters and practically caused the war that she later chose to stay away from.

She also wanted to execute Tyrion for something she knew he didn't do - for something that she, in fact, had done.

And then there's her victim-blaming of her niece Sansa for being harassed and molested by Littlefinger, and her attempted murder of Sansa.

She also let Marillion sexually assault the women in her household and kept him under her protection, just because he was handsome and sang lovely and flattered her. Whereas she has a burning hatred for Tyrion apparently just because he is an ugly dwarf.

I feel sorry for what Hoster did to her, and the way she had to live through all those years - the unwanted abortion of her child, being forced into a loveless marriage, many miscarriages she suffered, I even feel sorry for her delusional obsession with LF. But, like Cersei, she is a self-obsessed, narrow-minded, prejudiced person devoid of empathy; although she resents the wrongs done to her, she is perfectly willing to let others suffer the same wrongs. Case in point: she resents her father for forcing her to marry someone she didn't want for political reasons, but when she met her niece, she immediately told her that she had to marry her unbearable 8-year old son - because she wanted Sansa's claim to Winterfell, of course - and that she had no choice, since she was "little more than a beggar now" (now that her family was dead, that is). That also makes her a hypocrite.

[Annara Snow]

Robb doesn't really marry for love in the books though, does he? I always thought it was an honor thing.

Robb talks about his love for Jeyne several times. Cat believes he loves Jeyne. So why are the readers so eager for him to be a liar and for Cat to be a fool? There is no suggestion anywhere in the books that he didn't love her.

Robb himself explains his reasons to the Freys by telling them it's no slight on them, but "I loved another".

[Sansa_Stark]

You people realize she took advantage of a drunk littlefinger right? If it were the other way around, somehow I doubt you would all be so silent qbout this.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

This.

Eh, actually, while I wouldn't go as far to say she should burn in seven hells etc., she was a pretty awful person.

You forgot that she not just murdered her husband, but lied to Cat, framed the Lannisters and practically caused the war that she later chose to stay away from.

She also wanted to execute Tyrion for something she knew he didn't do - for something that she, in fact, had done.

And then there's her victim-blaming of her niece Sansa for being harassed and molested by Littlefinger, and her attempted murder of Sansa.

She also let Marillion sexually assault the women in her household and kept him under her protection, just because he was handsome and sang lovely and flattered her. Whereas she has a burning hatred for Tyrion apparently just because he is an ugly dwarf.

I feel sorry for what Hoster did to her, and the way she had to live through all those years - the unwanted abortion of her child, being forced into a loveless marriage, many miscarriages she suffered, I even feel sorry for her delusional obsession with LF. But, like Cersei, she is a self-obsessed, narrow-minded, prejudiced person devoid of empathy; although she resents the wrongs done to her, she is perfectly willing to let others suffer the same wrongs. Case in point: she resents her father for forcing her to marry someone she didn't want for political reasons, but when she met her niece, she immediately told her that she had to marry her unbearable 8-year old son - because she wanted Sansa's claim to Winterfell, of course - and that she had no choice, since she was "little more than a beggar now" (now that her family was dead, that is). That also makes her a hypocrite.

Basically this.

[Gneisenau]

You people realize she took advantage of a drunk littlefinger right? If it were the other way around, somehow I doubt you would all be so silent qbout this.

Well LF did get his revenge by pushing her down the moon gate.

[Thormund Stark]

I can understand how people could feel sympathy for her. But killing Jon, lying to Cat, and imprisoning an innocent Tyrion. Are all deplorable acts and especially when she threatened to kill Sansa, that made me lose any kind sympathy I could ever have towards her. LF killing her will forever be one of my favorite scenes in the book.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Meh. My heart bleeds panther piss for Lysa. She reaped what she has sown and thats fair enough. Shes interesting enough but i cant really feel anything for her. (except for mild annoyance)

[James Arryn]

It depends how you work it.

On the one hand, most of the things people here are mentioning as grounds for sympathy are the norm for Westeros. Marriage for practical reasons, not love? Welcome to the vast majority of everyone, 99.9% of whom would not get to live as you do. The abortion thing is horrible in isolation, but I'm not sure what fate awaits most young unmarried girls who get pregnant. Imagine the alternative; married to a LF who doesn't want you and will probably blame you for his career retardation. How long would she live? And it was after all the results of what many on here would call rape if the genders were switched.

And then look at what she's done to others. She murdered an honourable husband and the father of her child who never mistreated her, that we know of (and I think we'd know) for the lover she preferred. She tried to murder another innocent man via abuse of power by kangaroo court. She threatened her own sister and tried to murder her niece. She betrayed her family in a war she helped start, again mostly for the lover who despises her.

I mean...there aren't too many villains who don't have bad experiences in their past. Kind of a lot like heroes in that way. What often distinguishes them is the degree to which they choose to let their experiences define them.

And Lysa...not so much a hero.