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Theory: Darkstar works for Varys, and here's why


Jon of the Dead

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I think we just have to accept the fact that DS had one chance to kill her and missed. We don't know the exact details of what happened. For instance after Myrcella was cut maybe she fell from her horse and DS didnt have time to jump down and finish her off else he would have been caught.

Seriously, the guy is human. He may have narrowly missed and not had time to finish her off completely.

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Why would he want it to be in spectacular fashion? All that needs to be done is have Myrcella die while she's in the care of the Martells. What would it accomplish if Myrcella would be safe back in King's Landing and dies by some random person? That won't cause war. Killing Myrcella when she's under the protection of another is the way to go.

You're assuming that it's war that he wants. He doesn't; he just wants to see the Lannisters destroyed.

LF has small mans syndrome, and is a psycopath to boot. He wants his name to go down in history as the mastermind who destroyed the Lannisters...a Lannister army could not destroy the Reynes, but one Reyne destroyed the Lannisters. That type of thing.

He doesn't want randoms killing Lannisters as it doesn't fit his grand plan. HE wants to be able to claim all credit after the fact.

It will be interesting to see what he now has planned for Tyrion since he took Tywin from him (though, with the Tywin poisoned theories maybe LF was already half way there?).

Why spectacular? Big, bold, make a statement, have everyone tip their hat at his superior intellect...why else do serial killers have an MO?

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You're assuming that it's war that he wants. He doesn't; he just wants to see the Lannisters destroyed.

LF has small mans syndrome, and is a psycopath to boot. He wants his name to go down in history as the mastermind who destroyed the Lannisters...a Lannister army could not destroy the Reynes, but one Reyne destroyed the Lannisters. That type of thing.

He doesn't want randoms killing Lannisters as it doesn't fit his grand plan. HE wants to be able to claim all credit after the fact.

It will be interesting to see what he now has planned for Tyrion since he took Tywin from him (though, with the Tywin poisoned theories maybe LF was already half way there?).

Why spectacular? Big, bold, make a statement, have everyone tip their hat at his superior intellect...why else do serial killers have an MO?

You're assuming a lot, and it really makes no sense. Littlefinger doesn't hate the Lannisters anymore than any other highborn family. His vendetta against the highborn system has absolutely nothing to do with the Lannisters, but with the Starks and the Tullys. Those are the two houses he's wanted to destroy the most, and in his mind, he's completely succeeded at it. Not only that, he continues to spit on their graves by using Sansa against their mere memories. He's got a mini-Cat under his control that he's always wanted, he's Lord of the Riverlands, and he plans on sullying Winterfell and making it his own personal castle, which will be the ultimate "Fuck You" to the Starks and the Tullys.

There is ZERO evidence that he has any particular inspiration or vendetta against the Lannisters, other than the fact that they are highborn, and thus guilty by association. The only Lannister in particular that he seems to have a beef with is Tyrion, and that's it really. His beef is very clearly with the Starks and the Tullys, which is why he does everything in his power from the very start of the story to take them down completely. His motives are very firmly established, and the Lannisters have nothing to do with them. The Lannisters and the Starks have a very rocky history and were the best means to ignite a war, so Littlefinger played them against each other. Sure Littlefinger wants to destroy the Lannisters, but he doesn't want them destroyed anymore than the Martells or Tyrells.

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Doran is the true riddle. Doran is doing exactly what he is known for....OVERTHINKING things. He makes back up plans to his back plans just in case his secondary plans fall through.

"Ser Gerold is more of a viper than your uncle ever was."

Martin has very quietly moved all POV's away from Doran and in his time off screen is when a lot of his plans will come to fruition.

There may be nothing left to see in Sunspear. It looked like D was the super planner, and I wanted to believe at the end of Feast. Then I saw his son. Quentyn's woeful under-preparedness reflects very poorly on Doran. It implies that Doran is so out of practice that he's wasted all his years of overthinking on useless thoughts, plans that won't give him any traction. When the real endgame comes, I fear Dorne is set up to be a tragic entrant. If Ser Gerold is bassass enough to have a real impact, he'll probably do so by jumping ship and joining a more effective team. He already basically did so by defying Doran's will, right?

I think we just have to accept the fact that DS had one chance to kill her and missed. We don't know the exact details of what happened. For instance after Myrcella was cut maybe she fell from her horse and DS didnt have time to jump down and finish her off else he would have been caught.

I don't understand why so much taunting gets heaped on this guy for missing a kid. Kids are small. And more to the point, all of the top knights in the realm are shown to be less than omnipotent in their skills. They have their successes and their failed attempts. If the horse really did shy away just at that moment, and that's the only moment he had in which to strike & successfully escape, then it makes perfect sense that even a good fighter's blade would miss in that one instance. It doesn't mean he's a smurf, for godssake. It means the world breathes a sigh of relief because the royals dodged a real bullet there. So if you see me joining in with Darkstar abuse, it's only because there's years inbetween books and I'm bored and mocking him seems to attract an instant audience.

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I don't understand why so much taunting gets heaped on this guy for missing a kid. Kids are small. And more to the point, all of the top knights in the realm are shown to be less than omnipotent in their skills. They have their successes and their failed attempts. If the horse really did shy away just at that moment, and that's the only moment he had in which to strike & successfully escape, then it makes perfect sense that even a good fighter's blade would miss in that one instance. It doesn't mean he's a smurf, for godssake. It means the world breathes a sigh of relief because the royals dodged a real bullet there. So if you see me joining in with Darkstar abuse, it's only because there's years inbetween books and I'm bored and mocking him seems to attract an instant audience.

:) We should be friends.

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Him being a punchline to us = GRRM slating him for a serious credibility transfusion.



We laugh at Darkstar because all this laughing at him is going to cause him (or cause GRRM to have him) do something really badass in order to shut us up.



"Still think I'm a joke NOW, assholes?" he'll say, over the bloody stumps that used to be some of our more beloved characters.

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Damn it, I found some possible evidence of this in aDwD and I forgot to include it in the OP :bang:



Well, anyway. So Tyrion is talking to one of IIIlyrio's servants and he tells her:







“I have a niece in Sunspear, did I tell you? I could make rather a lot of mischief in Dorne with Myrcella. I could set my niece and nephew at war, wouldn’t that be droll?”




And then, of course, the girl is spying for IIIlyrio and this exchange happens:





Tyrion was beginning to suspect that a certain freckled washerwoman knew more of the Common Speech than she pretended. “My niece Myrcella is in Dorne, as it happens. And I have half a mind to make her a queen.”


Illyrio smiled as his serving men spooned out bowls of black cherries in sweet cream for them both. “What has this poor child done to you that you would wish her dead?”


“Even a kinslayer is not required to slay all his kin,” said Tyrion, wounded. “Queen her, I said. Not kill her.”


The cheesemonger spooned up cherries. “In Volantis they use a coin with a crown on one face and a death’s-head on the other. Yet it is the same coin. To queen her is to kill her. Dorne might rise for Myrcella, but Dorne alone is not enough. If you are as clever as our friend insists, you know this.”




So yeah, I think Myrcella was dead to Varys/IIIlyrio as soon as Arianne decided to crown her

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There may be nothing left to see in Sunspear. It looked like D was the super planner, and I wanted to believe at the end of Feast. Then I saw his son. Quentyn's woeful under-preparedness reflects very poorly on Doran. It implies that Doran is so out of practice that he's wasted all his years of overthinking on useless thoughts, plans that won't give him any traction. When the real endgame comes, I fear Dorne is set up to be a tragic entrant. If Ser Gerold is bassass enough to have a real impact, he'll probably do so by jumping ship and joining a more effective team. He already basically did so by defying Doran's will, right?

I see Quentyns failure as nothing more than a way for Doran to reach out to Daenerys, so that she knows Dorne is an ally. Doran knows how young girls are and he most definitely knew Quentyn isn't exactly fit for a Targaryan princess. I feel like Quentyn was disposable to Doran and him being raised by the Yronnwoods didn't exactly help their relationship. Doran imo sorta saw Quentyn how Balon saw theon just in a more respectable way.

Yes, possibly or maybe Darkstar's actions were all part of Doran's plan. Maybe word had reached him of the alleged ambushed that awaited his entourage en route to KL and that Cersei wanted Myrcella back, so he devised a scheme that forces Swann to stick around in turn giving him a way to NOT surrender Myrcella without causing war.

I believe once Tywin and Gregor were dead, Doran's been focused on Dornes' survival of the game of thrones. He knows the Targaryens are coming home with "fire and blood" and hes just trying to make sure that he puts his money on the right horse. I think the irony is gonna be that his plan takes too long and they don't completely come to fruition due to him dying of natural causes.

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snip

Yes it is a great theory, and yes I'm on board. I hate all the Darkstar hate on the forums anyway.

Agreed. I know I'm a horrible person to say this out loud, but your theory makes some sense in all other ways but the poisoned blade - I think Darkstar just missed his target, I mean he just botched it, no conspiracy theories on him trying to fail on purpose. If Myrcella's horse hadn't saved the day, she would have been dead meat then and there.

His intention was to kill Myrcella, which he would've. The blade was poisoned, I don't know whether to deal with such complications as these or just to tribute Oberyn if you subscribe to the theory of Darkstar being his bastard son. Don't know, just throwing it around.

Great theory.

Keep it up, I like your theories. Good and non pretentious.

Agreed. :)

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Yes it is a great theory, and yes I'm on board. I hate all the Darkstar hate on the forums anyway.

Thanks :D

I'm actually appreciating Darkstar more as a character, seriously. The prospect of him joining Aegon's kingsguard (hopefully with Dawn) is too enticing.

And it's one step closer to my crackpot/most-epic-moment-of-asoiaf fantasy of Jaime's weirwood dream being actually prophetic of him and Brienne fighting Aegon's undead kingsguard, Darkstar included

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Thanks :D

I'm actually appreciating Darkstar more as a character, seriously. The prospect of him joining Aegon's kingsguard (hopefully with Dawn) is too enticing.

And it's one step closer to my crackpot/most-epic-moment-of-asoiaf fantasy of Jaime's weirwood dream being actually prophetic of him and Brienne fighting Aegon's undead kingsguard, Darkstar included

Hmm. :idea:

Food for thought for sure.

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Yep - I know it says that in the text. Even when I read that (well before joing this great forum!) I thought "no, no, no".

A knight who was probably been trained to fight from horseback and swing a sword from the time he was 5 simply does not miss an easy target, even if the horse shied.

If he didn't land a killing blow the first swing, the second one would have made up for it.

If his intentions were to kill Myrcella, she would be dead.

The line "If Myrcella’s horse had not shied at the last instant, his longsword would have opened her from chest to waist instead just taking off her ear" was reported to Doran by someone who assumed Darkstar meant to kill her. And in their mind, the horse shying the way it did is the only possible explanation for him failing to do so.

This. That last part to me completely explains the "horse shied way" issue. From the point of view of Arianne, Darkstar was trying to kill Myrcella so she saw what she expected to see and reported that to Doran. Arianne strikes me as the "unreliable narrator" type.

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BTW, I was reading the Queenmaker chapter, and I think Varys has little birds amongst the orphans of the Green Blood. All that explanation about Arianne having contacts amongst those children, and one of them climbing through Quentyn's window and looking at his scrolls...that's sounds like what the little birds do.



I think that's how Varys knew of the plot, because one of his spies was following Garin, and then Varys contacted Darkstar


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  • 4 months later...

I don’t see Darkstar working for Varys. The main objective of Varys in AFfC/ADwD is to tear the Tyrell-Lannister alliance into pieces. Having Myrcella killed so early only serves to stiffen this alliance against Dorne, of which both Lannisters and Tyrells hate. We know that Team Aegon is aware of the fact that Dorne is not ready yet to defy the IT alone.



LF OTOH can willingly sacrifice Dorne. Although I can’t see a clue yet, if Darkstar is working for somebody, LF is the best candidate for that person. After all, we know that he makes use of a man like Lyn Corbray and Darkstar more or less fits the profile. And we know that LF is fond of poisons. Darkstar is a sweet poison according to Arianne.



I think Varys can easily destroy all the Lannister claimants. After all, he heard LF’s advice to Ned and appreciated it.



“It will be four years before Joffrey comes of age. By then he will look to you as a second father, and if not, well… four years is a good long while, my lord. Long enough to dispose of Lord Stannis. Then, should Joffrey prove troublesome, we can reveal his little secret and put Lord Renly on the throne.”



Varys can always reveal the twincest (now add the necromancy to the mixture) and the hold of Lannisters on the IT will fall in a day. He should not kill Tommen or Myrcella before the Reach is divided and ripe for joining Aegon. The Tyrells must be devastated first. That is why he took Kevan and Pycelle out.


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There may be nothing left to see in Sunspear. It looked like D was the super planner, and I wanted to believe at the end of Feast. Then I saw his son. Quentyn's woeful under-preparedness reflects very poorly on Doran. It implies that Doran is so out of practice that he's wasted all his years of overthinking on useless thoughts, plans that won't give him any traction. When the real endgame comes, I fear Dorne is set up to be a tragic entrant. If Ser Gerold is bassass enough to have a real impact, he'll probably do so by jumping ship and joining a more effective team. He already basically did so by defying Doran's will, right?

I feel like you would enjoy this essay. It's about how Dorne is set up for tragedy and I think the author makes a compelling point.

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  • 1 month later...

I personally believe that Varys some how had Darkstar slash the little princess to start another war. This would be the distraction needed for Aegon and the GC to swoop in and claim the Iron Throne while all the soldiers are off fighting in Dorne.



I also believe this was the plan for Daenerys he wanted Robert to send an army across the Narrow Sea and have the Capitol abandoned at a certain time.


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I think the OP theory is entirely plausible. It would explain much and more.

As far as the poisoned blade theory goes, there is plausibility there as well since DS and Oberyn are constantly mentioned in the same conversations. It might be that the plan was to slowly poison Myrcella because Arianne's plot came ahead of time for Varys. An instant death would have been too early but this was the only time for DS to act because once Myrcella was back in Doran's custody, he would be unable to kill her. He probably always carries a venomous blade into combat ala the RV and intended to murder Myrcella at the right moment where ever they planned to take her. The moment came early so he simply lopped off an ear, allowing the venom to work its way in.

Slow poisoning is something else closely associated with Oberyn: Tywin, Gregor.

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