could george martin change the rhaegar-jon snow story?

[Ygrain]

But why did those three know about Rhaegar and Lyanna's marriage and not the others?

A little guess on why no-one else knew: because there was the real danger that Aerys would do the same what Tywin did - have the marriage annulled or declared invalid or whatever else he fancied. If he doesn't know, he cannot act - and meanwhile, Rhaegar can depose him.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

There's a big difference between Jon Snow and the other Starks, though. Jon choose his lot in the NW, freely and willingly. Before war split the Stark family apart. He's not a victim of circumstance. How do you know that his greater purpose is not precisely to be the Lord Commander of the NW? Is there some rule that says he can't be the superhero of the story and be the commander of the NW? I'd rate a permanent military command of the organization tasked with protecting The Realms of Man as a "greater purpose".

I completely disagree. Jon chose the NW when it's made clear that he will always be an outcast at Winterfell. In fact, we see him bring up this idea when he is angry, disappointed and hurt by being kept from the royal feast. The Watch is the only place he thinks he can go to as a bastard. That is hardly free and willing and is definitely because of his circumstance. Later we find out he would have had to figure out something to do anyway since Cat wants him thrown out when Ned leaves.

This. We have already been shown how blind adherence to principles can cause great harm; I find it plausible that Jon might be forced to overcome the bonds of honour and do whatever it takes to save Westeros, no matter the cost to himself.

It also says "for this night and all nights to come". So no get out of jail free card for him,

Regarding "getting out of his vows" GRRM has already answered this. Jon will choose, freely and willingly this time, to break his vows and leave the Watch as part of his understanding of his greater duty, as he did when he went to the Wildings:

“So many vows … they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or another.”

There will be no pass or trick. He will walk away without the lack of other options he had in the start of his story. He will do this without duress but with a clear choice of staying or going.

[Kienn]

Definitely possible, just look at Harry Potter.

Before book 7 came out people had deciphered that Snape was a bad guy. JKRowling switched it up in the last book to surprise readers.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Definitely possible, just look at Harry Potter.

Before book 7 came out people had deciphered that Snape was a bad guy. JKRowling switched it up in the last book to surprise readers.

I disagree and will make this quick since it's off topic. Snape was set up from the start to have something secret going on with him. In fact, the actor who plays Snape says Rowling told him inside information (his love for Lily) to help him form his character on screen. In fact, Rowling is annoyed that so many readers think Snape is a hero and called out a reporter during an interview for calling him that. It's actually a good example of how a character can take on it's an identity of their own that doesn't mesh with what the author intended.

[The Dornishman's Widow]

Definitely possible, just look at Harry Potter.

Before book 7 came out people had deciphered that Snape was a bad guy. JKRowling switched it up in the last book to surprise readers.

Just the opposite in fact: JKR did not change Snape's allegiance and true motivations even though enough people figured it out (in case you're interested).

[ladytiger]

No NW equals no vows. Simple as that. Jon can leave the NW after the destruction since his vows are void and there is nothing left to dedicated his life to.

Do you seriously think that when he would have sayed the world and the people will look on to him he will say "Sorry dudes, scr*w you and your realm. I will stand on this ruins even if I have died and I am free, I will stay here." :bs:

I 100% agree with you. Some of the fans are so stubborn to think that Jon is going to stay in the NW...no way that that happens. They basically attempted to KILL him and therefore (obviously) don't want him to be LC or in the NW. I think GRRM used Jon's stabbing as a way to free him of his vows; besides, the Wall is in utter chaos right now. Once the Wall falls, the NW is going to disband.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Definitely possible, just look at Harry Potter.

Before book 7 came out people had deciphered that Snape was a bad guy. JKRowling switched it up in the last book to surprise readers.

Was there anyone who really thought that Snape was a bad guy? :eek:

I 100% agree with you. Some of the fans are so stubborn to think that Jon is going to stay in the NW...no way that that happens. They basically attempted to KILL him and therefore (obviously) don't want him to be LC or in the NW. I think GRRM used Jon's stabbing as a way to free him of his vows; besides, the Wall is in utter chaos right now. Once the Wall falls, the NW is going to disband.

:agree: They think that he will stay with his sword on his hand waiting and becoming this.

[Atropis the Elf]

Definitely possible, just look at Harry Potter.

Before book 7 came out people had deciphered that Snape was a bad guy. JKRowling switched it up in the last book to surprise readers.

I don't know what happened with HP series, but in a recent interview (the one in Australia) GRRM specifically said that whatever fans decipher will not influence what's on his mind.

[alienarea]

And I'm still waiting for an explanation why they put Rhaegar's order above their first duty and why they invoke their vow as a reason why they are staying and proudly claiming they are Kingsguard when they are NOT doing their Kingsguard duty.

We are Kingsugard, Kingsguard, Kingsguard, and we are chilling out here because Prince Rhaegar ordered us to guard this piece of pizza no matter what. The fact that there is a King out there without any Kingsguard is of absolutely no concern to us.

Ridiculous, isn't it? Regardless what and whom Rhaegar had ordered them to guard, the very moment a Targaryen king is without his Kingsguard, there is a conflict of their orders and their first duty. There is no way they can be ignorant of this, and there is no way they can support their action be referring to their Kingsguard status and their vow if that very action is in contradiction with their duty. That would be like claiming that you're re cleaning the flat while anybody can see that nothing has been touched.

That still covers the character's psyche, not background. You can make up the most unusual background but the character can still end up terribly flat without good characterisation.

We had that before I guess, still:

Rhaegar left before Lyanna gave birth (assuming, for arguments sake, she was pregnant, which is never confirmed in the book, and yes, a bed of blood might indicate it, but it could also be a bed of blood).

Rhaegar could not know the gender of the to be born child, so he must have given Whent, Dayne and Hightower a different order.

I assume that Rhaegar did not intend to die at the Trident, so the order may have been a simple: "Stay here untill I return."

And that would be a smart order from the emo prince riding into a decisive battle without the alleged best fighter by his side.

[Ygrain]

We had that before I guess, still:

Rhaegar left before Lyanna gave birth (assuming, for arguments sake, she was pregnant, which is never confirmed in the book, and yes, a bed of blood might indicate it, but it could also be a bed of blood).

Rhaegar could not know the gender of the to be born child, so he must have given Whent, Dayne and Hightower a different order.

I assume that Rhaegar did not intend to die at the Trident, so the order may have been a simple: "Stay here untill I return."

And that would be a smart order from the emo prince riding into a decisive battle without the alleged best fighter by his side.

Since we had this before, "bed of blood" is used consistently and solely with childbirth, and at the time when Rhaegar left ToJ, his orders weren't in contradiction with the KG vows. This particular issue gets interesting only after there occurs a shortage of other Kingsguard available to perform the first duty.