Dany's mistakes

[RK Rajagopal]

This is a thread to list out and analyse Dany's possible mistakes.

I want to point out that this is not a Dany hate thread. This thread is meant to carry out an objective analysis of her possible mistakes. Feel free to disagree with / add to what I list.

1. Approving the torture of innocents: I think this is the most clear cut mistake / evil thing she has carried out so far. When she was ruling Meereen and faced trouble from the Harpies, she approved the torture of innocent women to get information.

”Three freedmen, murdered in their homes,” the Shavepate said. “A moneylender, a cobbler, and the harpist Rylona Rhee. They cut her fingers off before they killed her.”

The queen flinched. Rylona Rhee had played the harp as sweetly as the Maiden. When she had been a slave in Yunkai, she had played for every highborn family in the city. In Meereen she had become a leader amongst the Yunkish freedmen, their voice in Dany’s councils. “We have no captives but this wineseller?”

“None, this one grieves to confess. We beg your pardon.”

Mercy, thought Dany. They will have the dragon’s mercy. “Skahaz, I have changed my mind. Question the man sharply.”

“I could. Or I could question the daughters sharply whilst the father looks on. That will wring some names from him.”

“Do as you think best, but bring me names.” Her fury was a fire in her belly. (ADWD DANY II)

Note that she doesn't even ask how old the daughters were. In her defense, she was really angry at the time, and hasn't acted ruthlessly to any innocents since then. She didn't kill her child hostages, for example. However, I think that this is an indication of what Dany is capable of when she is truly furious - when the "dragon is woken". Disturbingly, she seems to reject her benevolent attitude and adopt a more ruthless attitude towards the end of the book.

2. Infatuation with Daario: I don't think I need to elaborate here. We're all fed up with her affections for Daario - and he consistently gives her violent advice - such as having another red wedding.

“He would make a monster of me,” she whispered, “a butcher queen.” (DANY IV)

To be fair again, Dany herself later tries to let go of Daario, for her own good. But again, disturbingly towards the end in the Dothraki sea, she tends to be drawn towards Daario again. This may not mean much by itself, but it is just worth noting.

3. Staying in Meereen too long: This one is debatable. While she arguably should have heeded Selmy and Jorah's advice and sailed to Westeros far earlier, doing so would have made another Astapor out of Meereen. What about all the people who call her "Mother"? Personally, I am OK with what she did. Listing it here for argument's sake.

4. Dealings with the Harpies / Yunkai: Again, this is debatable. She did achieve a working, albeit temporary "peace" deal, but did so with great personal sacrifice. And then she decided it was not worth it.

I hate this, thought Daenerys Targaryen. How did this happen, that I am drinking and smiling with men I’d sooner flay? … This is peace, she told herself. This is what I wanted, what I worked for, this is why I married Hizdahr. So why does it taste so much like defeat? (DANY VIII)

I think this is a very interesting arc - again, I am OK with what she did, but want to hear other people's opinions if this was stupid.

5. Failed attempts at Justice: Dany has often tried to help someone, only to have disastrous consequences. Dany herself reflects on this several times - Eroeh and Astapor come to mind. In Dany's defense, she was a young girl who did it for the good of the people. She was only learning to lead. However,

“I know. I know. It is Eroeh all over again.”

Brown Ben Plumm was puzzled. “Who is Eroeh?”

“A girl I thought I’d saved from rape and torment. All I did was make it worse for her in the end. And all I did in Astapor was make ten thousand Eroehs.”

“Your Grace could not have known—” “I am the queen. It was my place to know.” (DANY V)

What do you think?

Edit: Grammar

[Dicer]

Are you going to be doing one of these for all POV characters or just Jon and Dany?

1. When it comes to torture, refraining from torture seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Except for the Starks with their high standards of honor I think most houses and leaders condone or go along with torture. Stannis tortures someone everytime he burns them to death.

2. I don't see what the issue is with her affection for Daario? It in no way impeded her duties as Queen. She was having a little fun on the side. I see nothing wrong

3. She stayed in Meereen for noble reasons

4. Her being sad and depressed about all the sacrifices she had to make (Including a marriage to a man she does not like) and all the losses she suffered is not a crime. She was looking back at all she lost and gained by staying in Meereen. Like you said, this introspection makes her interesting. There's remorse, regret, doubt. Makes her human. But she did achieve a semblance of peace before it all went to hell again. It will be interesting to see where she goes from here.

5. She lets her emotions skew her sense of justice and right or wrong. That is a flaw.

[RK Rajagopal]

1. When it comes to torture, not torturing seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Except for the Starks with their high standards of honor I think most houses and leaders condone or go along with torture. Stannis tortures someone everytime he burns someone to death.

True. I would still call torturing innocents a mistake, but agree that it is quite prevalent.

2. I don't see what the issue is with her affection for Daario? It in no way impeded her duties as Queen. She was having a little fun on the side. I see nothing wrong

It is probably fine to have a little fun on the side, but Dany got emotionally involved with Daario, which strikes me as immature. But she did end her relationship with him before she gets tempted by his violent ideas - so that's fine. As you say, it hasn't impeded her duties as a queen. But I don't think Daario and Dany's arc is done yet - towards the end, she seems to decide that she has chosen Daario over Hizdar - which, if true, would potentially destroy the peace. But we will have to wait for TWOW to find that out. For now, I agree that she didn't really cause anything bad to happen by sleeping with Daario.

3. She stayed in Meereen for noble reasons

4. Her being sad and depressed about all the sacrifices she had to make (Including a marriage to a man she does not like) and all the losses she suffered is not a crime. She was looking back at all she lost and gained by staying in Meereen. Like you said, this introspection makes her interesting. There's remorse, regret, doubt. Makes her human. But she did achieve a semblance of peace before it all went to hell again. It will be interesting to see where she goes from here.

5. She lets her emotions skew her sense of justice and right or wrong. That is a flaw.

Agree with all three points above. But I still think it is worth listening to other people's views on them.

[Nictarion]

Are you going to be doing one of these for all POV characters or just Jon and Dany?

1. When it comes to torture, refraining from torture seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Except for the Starks with their high standards of honor I think most houses and leaders condone or go along with torture. Stannis tortures someone everytime he burns them to death.

2. I don't see what the issue is with her affection for Daario? It in no way impeded her duties as Queen. She was having a little fun on the side. I see nothing wrong

3. She stayed in Meereen for noble reasons

4. Her being sad and depressed about all the sacrifices she had to make (Including a marriage to a man she does not like) and all the losses she suffered is not a crime. She was looking back at all she lost and gained by staying in Meereen. Like you said, this introspection makes her interesting. There's remorse, regret, doubt. Makes her human. But she did achieve a semblance of peace before it all went to hell again. It will be interesting to see where she goes from here.

5. She lets her emotions skew her sense of justice and right or wrong. That is a flaw.

I've been agreeing with you a lot today Dicer, and I do again with this post.

[CassBlackfyre]

Staying in Meereen in the first place was a complete mistake, she should have sacked the city, killed the elites and moved on

[RK Rajagopal]

Staying in Meereen in the first place was a complete mistake, she should have sacked the city, killed the elites and moved on

That would have caused Meereen to collapse just like Astapor. Her choice was to be a Khaleesi vs being a mother. Had she sacked and left, the thousands who called her "Mhysa" would have been enslaved again - something which Dany couldn't let herself do.

[Nictarion]

Astapor is compared to hell on earth, there's no way she would want a repeat of that. Staying in Meereen was the right choice.

[CassBlackfyre]

That would have caused Meereen to collapse just like Astapor. He choice was to be a Khaleesi vs being a mother. Had she sacked and left, the thousands who called her "Mhysa" would have been enslaved again - something which Dany couldn't let herself do.

I wouldn't care, tbh, i'd be more interested in taking the Iron Throne. So for me staying in Meereen was a mistake

[RK Rajagopal]

I wouldn't care, tbh, i'd be more interested in taking the Iron Throne. So for me staying in Meereen was a mistake

You wouldn't care if thousands of people who call you "Mother" are killed / enslaved, so long as you get the Iron Throne? And it's not that all hope of the Iron Throne is lost - Dany tries to achieve a stable and working peace in Meereen, and then go to Westeros. That's very noble, in my opinion.

[Sansa_Stark]

peace from war she started

[Nictarion]

peace from war she started

So what? It was a just cause. More noble than the reason most of the wars in the story were fought over.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

:rolleyes: She stayed in Meereen for a good reason.

[Nictarion]

:rolleyes: She stayed in Meereen for a good reason.

How wasn't it?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

How wasn't it?

I was replying to the OP, that she stayed there for a good reason.

[RK Rajagopal]

I was replying to the OP, that she stayed there for a good reason.

I did state in my post that I am support of this decision, but am listing it here for argument's sake. I agree with you.

[Nictarion]

I was replying to the OP, that she stayed there for a good reason.

Ok, sorry.

[Winter's Knight]

I stopped taking you seriously at "Daario". She has neither married him nor fallen in love with to the point of obsessively keeping him locked away frm the world, unlike a certain boy king or dwarf I could mention.

The girl's allowed to have fun.

[Sansa_Stark]

The fact that she still considers herself ruler of Westeros even despite ruling that that rich lady's house isn't hers anymore because some people took it from her.

[Ours if the Fury]

too many to count...

[Sansa_Stark]

too many to count...

Basically.