Nyrhex Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Hi all, Wanted to raise this question, since I find the wiki entry rather confusing. The entry claims that during the war there were five (5) belligerents. It also adds a cross next to belligerents who died, and added "lost his seat" next to Stannis' title, since he is the last one of the original five to still be alive, yet is not the winner. Now read that bolded part again. See a problem? As pointed by Archmaester Benedict, Balon was only crowned after Renly died and his cause was lost. So, not all kings/causes existed at the same time. Another problem is, not all of the belligerents faught for the same thing. Stannis and Joffrey both claimed to be the true heirs, and were in a succession war. Renly rebelled and wanted to win a war of conquest. Balon only wanted to rebel and conquer a part of Westeros, while making alliance with the other part. Robb rebelled and wanted independence for the North, the Riverlands, and was willing to fight for the Iron Islands as well, if they join them. So, not a single conflict, but rather, a group of conflicts. Basically, the only thing connecting the wars is the fact that they happened at about the same time, in Westeros. After the Blackwater, Stannis is on Dragonstone, yet he refuses to make peace. He even jails his Hand for trying it behind his back. Tywin waits for the Redwyne fleet to arrive, so he could finish Stannis. Stannis continues from there to the Wall before that happens (which causes Tywin to fear that the war could drag for years), and from there he is still trying to fight the Lannisters (this time thier Northern host under command of Roose Bolton - Lannister appointed Warden of the North).Back on the Iron Isles, Euron inherits his brother's war, and expands it's goals - Westeros. The troops in the North are abandoned, but the North is still one of the goals by definition. If two of the original conflicts are still ongoing, and more are added (Conflict beyond the Wall, the Faith Militant and the landing of the GC), how can the war be over? Part of the conflicts are over, but the name has been established as grouping at least one war that was added (Balon), and one that has ended (Renly). Should the wiki entry be changed to show that Westeros is still at war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thendel Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The War of the Five Kings is named so because there were suddenly five separate factions claiming royalty on a continent that used to be ruled by a single monarch. Of these five factions, only those backing Robb and Renly have collapsed, whereas the remaining factions still press claims that clash with each other. Whether it's aptly named is worth a discussion, but there is no doubt that that is the name of the conflict. Given that Euron and Stannis still fight on, I'd say there has yet to be a resolution that would mark the end of a war. Therefore Jaime is wrong when he after the siege of Riverrun claims that the war is all but won: Stannis remains far from defeated, and Euron has only begun attacking another region. Some historians would argue that while wars may have pauses in which there is no fighting, but that does not mean the conflict is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nite's King Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 WO5K is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Therefore Jaime is wrong when he after the siege of Riverrun claims that the war is all but won: Stannis remains far from defeated, and Euron has only begun attacking another region. Some historians would argue that while wars may have pauses in which there is no fighting, but that does not mean the conflict is over. Very well said. :) The Iron Islands have ensured that the war will continue in the Reach, at the very least. Although the Lannisters have provided most of Joffrey's and Tommen's support, they've been hard hit and now depend on the Tyrells. It's highly unlikely that the Tyrells will continue allow the loss of the Shield Islands to simply pass by without retribution. I think that the Wiki is a little pre-emptive to suggest that the war is over. The North is heavily disputed between Stannis' forces, rebel Northmen, the remnants of the Ironborn and the Baratheon loyalists. The Reach is now being invaded and the Iron Islands are yet to be subdued (or declared victorious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe42m1 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I agree that with Stannis and the Iron Islands yet to be subdued, the war is not over yet. Furthermore a significant amount of Northmen are not satisfied with the Boltons/Freys. If Stannis wins at Winterfell (Davos returning with Rickon wouldn't hurt), the North could declare for Stannis with a Stark as Warden of the North. Open war would return to Westeros with the original reason for the war still applying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseHB Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The War of the Five Kings is not over until Stannis Baratheon says it's over. Capiche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feliciano69 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The War of the Five Kings is not over until Stannis Baratheon says it's over. Capiche? I like this man............or woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The War of the Five Kings is not over until Stannis Baratheon says it's over. Capiche?Awwwwww hells yeah! Anyway, yeah no the war isn't over. How anyone in their right mind could think such a thing is beyond me. the war is not over until only one contender remains in UNDISPUTED control of the throne, and all others have been killed or fled the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassBlackfyre Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Aegon, Euron, Stannis, Tommen. so its 'The war of 5 kings minus Robb plus two replacement kings' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Fox Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 World War 2 didn't stop being World War 2 because the US and Japan were the only powers still fighting. The Wot5K rages on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaarioKnowsBest Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Awwwwww hells yeah!Anyway, yeah no the war isn't over. How anyone in their right mind could think such a thing is beyond me. the war is not over until only one contender remains in UNDISPUTED control of the throne, and all others have been killed or fled the continent.Say Stannis and Euron died today, there would still be Aegon.Would it still be the War of the Five Kings?Are the Iraq and Afghan wars the same war?We've been told that one has ended, yet fighting didn't stop and the same incident is the supposed catalyst for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Initial parties:1. Northern and RIverlords -> independence2. Stannis -> the IT3. Lannisters -> the IT4. Tyrells -> the IT5. Ironborn -> independence + raidingIt seems to me that all all the conflicts are still going on, with the unstable exception of Lannister-Tyrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 World War 2 didn't stop being World War 2 because the US and Japan were the only powers still fighting. The Wot5K rages on. That never even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Its not over until Stannis the one true king says it is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 It's still going. The only issue I can see is that the ongoing conflicts no longer involve five kings, but as the war never involved five kings at any one point, there's no real problem there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven in Winter Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The War of the Five Kings is not over until Stannis Baratheon says it's over. Capiche? What if he dies before he says it's over? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Fox Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 That never even happened. Yes it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yes it did. The USA and Japan were never the only two powers left fighting. So, it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Fox Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yes it did. You're arguing semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yes it did. You're arguing semantics. The Fuck. Ever heard of the British Empire. Name ring any bells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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