Joe Abercrombie: SPOILER THREAD for all of the First Law books

[aceluby]

Just finished Best Served Cold. Brilliant.

Sad to see the evolution of Shivers. And I hope we learn more about this mysterious Shenkt and his quest for vengeance.

[Probably not worth reading for non French readers.]

By the way, the French title is terrible: "Servir froid", whereas the equivalent idiom for "Best Served Cold" in French is something like "La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid". "Servir froid" is stupid and doesn't mean anything.

And some characters just lost their French name (Shivers who was Frisson in First Law became Shivers in this book... it took me two pages to figure it out) or had a different translation.

I should have probably read everything in English...

If you like the Shivers POV you'll LOVE where he goes in Heroes. Just great character development all around for Shivers.

[Pliskin]

If you like the Shivers POV you'll LOVE where he goes in Heroes. Just great character development all around for Shivers.

I don't know if I like him... I certainly liked how he started though. And it was painful to see him go that road.

If I had to pick characters I like, it would be Monza or Cosca I think.

At the end,

When Monza refused both Gurkhul's and the Union's offers and refused to pay the bank's debt, I almost thought she was Cersei-stupid, but then... Shenkt came out to be a third player and an alternative of sort. That was very interesting.

She's not stupid, she's just lucky to have the opportunity to not align.

An opportunity poor Jezal didn't have.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

Can anyone tell me if this has happened to them with this book? Read the First Law as it came out, didn't finish the 3rd because my copy was missing several pages. Thought Best Served Cold and The Heroes dragged and struggled to finish one, dropped the other. Listened to the audiobooks recently and re-bought every First Law book and is now enjoying every single one and not seeing the problems once seen. Seriously, really good books. Looking forward to reading Red Country.

But I keep seeing people reference a baby at the end of Last Argument of Kings with A and I cannot for the life of me see such a thing in the book. Can someone help me out? Much obliged.

[Maithanet]

But I keep seeing people reference a baby at the end of Last Argument of Kings with A and I cannot for the life of me see such a thing in the book. Can someone help me out? Much obliged.

Did part of your post get deleted? I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

I think so, I haven't restarted or switched of my computer in a week. I was looking around and I heard people reference Ardee West being with child, and I'm just confused. I can't remember them mentioning it in the books. Am I wrong? Also, judging by your screen name I take it you hate R Scott Bakker with a passion. :)

[Pliskin]

I think so, I haven't restarted or switched of my computer in a week. I was looking around and I heard people reference Ardee West being with child, and I'm just confused. I can't remember them mentioning it in the books. Am I wrong? Also, judging by your screen name I take it you hate R Scott Bakker with a passion. :)

Ardee West was with child, yes. That's one of the reasons that leads Glotka to propose. To protect her and her child.

[Andrew Gilfellon]

Ah right. Must have been mentioned on the pages that were missing.

Thank you.

[Maithanet]

Also, judging by your screen name I take it you hate R Scott Bakker with a passion. :)

Pliskin answered your question. But I like Bakker's series, and I liked Maithanet a lot. Why would I choose a handle for a series I don't even like? The "Inoffensive, but mostly useless" is just a bit of self deprecating humor :cool4:

[Andrew Gilfellon]

I guessed, I was being sarcastic, which was pointless considering sarcasm never works over the internet. I like Bakker too.

[aceluby]

I don't know if I like him... I certainly liked how he started though. And it was painful to see him go that road.

If I had to pick characters I like, it would be Monza or Cosca I think.

At the end,

When Monza refused both Gurkhul's and the Union's offers and refused to pay the bank's debt, I almost thought she was Cersei-stupid, but then... Shenkt came out to be a third player and an alternative of sort. That was very interesting.

She's not stupid, she's just lucky to have the opportunity to not align.

An opportunity poor Jezal didn't have.

I like his character progression throughout the stories. From the First Law trilogy, then his transformation in BSC, his continued progression in Heroes, and finally his appearance in Red Country. Out of everybody his progression is the most interesting to me.

[Maithanet]

I guessed, I was being sarcastic, which was pointless considering sarcasm never works over the internet. I like Bakker too.

Yeah, I missed that one. Sarcasm on the internet is hard, you have to really lack it on thick.

[Pliskin]

I like his character progression throughout the stories. From the First Law trilogy, then his transformation in BSC, his continued progression in Heroes, and finally his appearance in Red Country. Out of everybody his progression is the most interesting to me.

Well, now I know he survives the battle in Heroes and appears in Red Country. Spoilers :p

(I know, it's a spoiler thread)

[aceluby]

Well, now I know he survives the battle in Heroes and appears in Red Country. Spoilers :P

(I know, it's a spoiler thread)

Yeah, if you consider those 'spoilers' you probably shouldn't be in this thread :P

[The BlackBear]

Spoilers!

Logen and Black Dow solve their differences and have a civil partnership.

The order of the magi hold an intervention, and Bayaz gets counselling.

Kanedias and Juvens come back as Force ghosts.

and Ferro opens a cake shop.

[Clueless Northman]

The whole thing is fantasy, but after having read the first trilogy, the main thing that baffles me is the Inquisition.

If this thing has been going on for centuries and has always been that harsh and mismanaged - as in picking mostly random people and torturing them without giving a damn if they got the truth out of them, or if they punished the right guy -, I just can't think how it's actually been allowed to go on for so long. The whole thing is akin to NKVD level of evil; I can't see a medieval or renaissance nation having something on this level and able to maintain it for so long. Sooner or later, people would revolt - specially if nobles themselves, wealthy organizations and Closed Council members could potentially be targetted.

I suppose it was mostly on the level of the historical Inquisition, and was a bit more competent and less wide-ranging than under Sult during most of its history...

Sure he's subtle, otherwise how would he manage to essentially create a nation just to use as a weapon in his petty feud with Khalul? But he created a nation just to use as a weapon in his petty feud with Khalul! He rates his own pride over the lives and livelihood of AN ENTIRE NATION OF PEOPLE. If that's not spoiled, I don't know what is.

Khalul obviously did the same with Gurkhul.

[Probably not worth reading for non French readers.]

By the way, the French title is terrible: "Servir froid", whereas the equivalent idiom for "Best Served Cold" in French is something like "La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid". "Servir froid" is stupid and doesn't mean anything.

Well, French translations being atrocious at times is nothing new, and French edition as a whole is a joke nowadays.

Still, as far as Abercrombie is concerned, they committed a far bigger insult when massively failing to translate "Last Argument of Kings". From what I can see, none of Fist Law trilogy actually translates the original titles -themselves basically quotations, though fully deserving a faithful translation - but these utter morons managed to translate something like "Last skirmish". When the title itself was taken straight out of Louis XIV and one of the peaks of French history...

[The BlackBear]

The whole thing is fantasy, but after having read the first trilogy, the main thing that baffles me is the Inquisition.

If this thing has been going on for centuries and has always been that harsh and mismanaged - as in picking mostly random people and torturing them without giving a damn if they got the truth out of them, or if they punished the right guy -, I just can't think how it's actually been allowed to go on for so long. The whole thing is akin to NKVD level of evil; I can't see a medieval or renaissance nation having something on this level and able to maintain it for so long. Sooner or later, people would revolt - specially if nobles themselves, wealthy organizations and Closed Council members could potentially be targetted.

I suppose it was mostly on the level of the historical Inquisition, and was a bit more competent and less wide-ranging than under Sult during most of its history...

Their level of brutality towards those of higher stature is mainly due to the rise of the merchant class, and Sult's utter hatred of it.

Then the punishment of random people is mob justice. Think about all the trials by paper we have nowadays. If the crowd want a villain the inquisition give them one, and that's it, job done.

Also just saw this and as well as the name similarity, it fairly well sums up my reaction to the way all Northmen in fiction are the size of small houses.

[matt b]

Khalul obviously did the same with Gurkhul.

Of course, I never said otherwise.

[Pliskin]

I'm reading Heroes, and I noticed something weird.

Sergent Gaunt

died in the multi-PoV chapter of the first battle, when we navigate from a PoV to his killer in a series of deaths.

But then, he is mentioned in an another chapter, during the war council following the battle. It's like he's present there with them and eager to fight as they lay out the plans for the next day.

Is this an error (of translation maybe ? I'm reading the book in French) or...?

I know it's a spoiler thread, but if it's not an error and we're supposed to find out later about an explanation, please don't answer me. Just say "keep reading".

Thanks!

I suppose it might be Yoru Sulfur in disguise, but I just don't see the point in doing that...

ETA: Or Ishri. It would make more sense. But I don't remember any Eater being able to shapeshift.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

I think if we're debating whether or not Bayaz is a good guy or not, we're kind of missing the forest for the trees. I don't think there is, or was supposed to be, much ambiguity as to how much of an evil twat Bayaz is.

One thing I really want to know from Abercrombie is if the bit at the beginning of The Blade Itself where Bayaz isn't, as expected, the kindly old man, but the butcher, was intended foreshadowing, or just a low-level Abercrombian play on tropes and cliches (which would itself be a form of foreshadowing as to what he might later end up doing with the characters, but yeah...)

Yea I love when Logen asked Bayaz what the difference was between him and Glustrod. Bayaz's answer was "Glustrod lost." So it seems as though Bayaz is admitting the fact that he is comparative to a person who is considered a horrible villain in history, the only difference being he came out on top. Obviously Abercrombie is also very much playing with the idea that the winners are responsible for writing history.

[SeanF]

The whole thing is fantasy, but after having read the first trilogy, the main thing that baffles me is the Inquisition.If this thing has been going on for centuries and has always been that harsh and mismanaged - as in picking mostly random people and torturing them without giving a damn if they got the truth out of them, or if they punished the right guy -, I just can't think how it's actually been allowed to go on for so long. The whole thing is akin to NKVD level of evil; I can't see a medieval or renaissance nation having something on this level and able to maintain it for so long. Sooner or later, people would revolt - specially if nobles themselves, wealthy organizations and Closed Council members could potentially be targetted.I suppose it was mostly on the level of the historical

Inquisition, and was a bit more competent and less wide-ranging than under Sult during most of its history...Khalul obviously did the same with Gurkhul.

...

The Inquisition isn't at all interested in matters of religion. It's a modern secret police force, like the NKVD or Gestapo, with its own network of concentration camps. In reality, it's probably too modern for the kind of society that the Union

is, but it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of the story.

I rather like the way that the author has made the Inquisition the body that holds real power in the Union, while the King and nobles are essentially ciphers. It's like peeling back each layer of an onion. In the end, even the Inquisition is a tool in the hands of Bayaz.