Joe Abercrombie: SPOILER THREAD for all of the First Law books

[Joe Abercrombie]

People are constantly telling me I'm wrong. Death of the author, baby. Death of the author.

[Datepalm]

Damn it, I can't believe you beat me to "no offence, Joe, but in this thread you're dead to me."

:bowdown:

[The hairy bear]

But people have genuinely told him his timelines are wrong.

But they are! Joe keeps saying that The First Law covers 575-577 (spans across three years), when the text clearly asserts that the whole trilogy takes 20 months at most. :smug:

ETA:

In Jedzal's first chapter, he says it's four months until the "summer contest". Four weeks after the contest, the Union's army departs to Angland, so TBI takes 5 months.

And in TLAOK, West says: "It had been autumn when he set out for Angland. Could it really have been only a year ago?" That's in during the Battle of Adua. Later, in the second to last chapter of the book, Jedzal says that "It was a beautiful autumn day in Adua".

So in total, 5 months, plus a year from autumn to autumn.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

But they are! Joe keeps saying that The First Law covers 575-577 (spans across three years), when the text clearly asserts that the whole trilogy takes 20 months at most. :smug:

ETA:

In Jedzal's first chapter, he says it's four months until the "summer contest". Four weeks after the contest, the Union's army departs to Angland, so TBI takes 5 months.

And in TLAOK, West says: "It had been autumn when he set out for Angland. Could it really have been only a year ago?" That's in during the Battle of Adua. Later, in the second to last chapter of the book, Jedzal says that "It was a beautiful autumn day in Adua".

So in total, 5 months, plus a year from autumn to autumn.

Jesus, do you have an eidetic memory or are you just incredibly well versed in Joe's books? I'm a little bit jealous either way.

[Joe Abercrombie]

But they are! Joe keeps saying that The First Law covers 575-577 (spans across three years), when the text clearly asserts that the whole trilogy takes 20 months at most. :smug:

ETA:

In Jedzal's first chapter, he says it's four months until the "summer contest". Four weeks after the contest, the Union's army departs to Angland, so TBI takes 5 months.

And in TLAOK, West says: "It had been autumn when he set out for Angland. Could it really have been only a year ago?" That's in during the Battle of Adua. Later, in the second to last chapter of the book, Jedzal says that "It was a beautiful autumn day in Adua".

So in total, 5 months, plus a year from autumn to autumn.

You are correct The Blade Itself starts spring 575, second to last chapter of Last Argument of Kings late autumn 576 but, you smartypants, you're forgetting that the last chapter quite clearly takes place in winter, following Logen's voyage back from Adua and lengthy journey cross-country to Carleon. Shortly after new year 577. Yeah. In your face.

[dietl]

:lol:

[The hairy bear]

You are correct The Blade Itself starts spring 575, second to last chapter of Last Argument of Kings late autumn 576 but, you smartypants, you're forgetting that the last chapter quite clearly takes place in winter, following Logen's voyage back from Adua and lengthy journey cross-country to Carleon. Shortly after new year 577. Yeah. In your face.

Thanks Joe! It's great to be refuted by the author himself. You are the best. :)

Now, If I say that "Half a King" won't probably be a very good novel, will you send me an ARC to disprove it? In my face! :P

Jesus, do you have an eidetic memory or are you just incredibly well versed in Joe's books? I'm a little bit jealous either way.

No, don't be jealous: my memory is shitty and as you seee there's still someone who knows much more than me. I just take notes when I reread a book.

[jurble]

A friend of mine has recently read TFL on my recommendation, and he liked it. And he has renewed my hatred of Bayaz in our discussions. Man, Bayaz is such a dick. Really hope he gets his come-uppance before Joe decides to stop writing in TFL universe.

[saymyname]

An experiment then: What would have happened without Bayaz pulling strings?

[The BlackBear]

An experiment then: What would have happened without Bayaz pulling strings?

That's an incredibly vague question, do you mean in regards to the series or the whole universe. Because if Bayaz hadn't killed Juvens, everything would change. The brothers seem to have been heading for a conflict either way. Kalul would probably not have resorted to Eating...

Question is Kalul an Eater or just his followers?

[Joe Abercrombie]

An experiment then: What would have happened without Bayaz pulling strings?

Yeah, that's sort of a tough one, since Bayaz' war with Khalul has shaped the world, and Bayaz pulling strings is really the engine of the whole plot. It's a bit like asking what would have happened in Aliens without the Aliens.

[Derfel Cadarn]

It wouldn't have been game over, man.

[The BlackBear]

It kind of depends on whether you mean the whole series or just Alien, because the ship would have just returned to earth.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

Yeah, that's sort of a tough one, since Bayaz' war with Khalul has shaped the world, and Bayaz pulling strings is really the engine of the whole plot. It's a bit like asking what would have happened in Aliens without the Aliens.

Personally I'm all for egotistical maniacs desiring world domination.

Sometimes people need to be ruled...

:devil:

[Chirios]

Yeah, that's sort of a tough one, since Bayaz' war with Khalul has shaped the world, and Bayaz pulling strings is really the engine of the whole plot. It's a bit like asking what would have happened in Aliens without the Aliens.

Okay, how bout this:

Euz comes back to life, grabs Bayaz and Khalul by the ears and forces them into a boxing ring. Whoever pummels the other to death wins.

[red snow]

Yeah, that's sort of a tough one, since Bayaz' war with Khalul has shaped the world, and Bayaz pulling strings is really the engine of the whole plot. It's a bit like asking what would have happened in Aliens without the Aliens.

I guess China Mieville alien would have turned up eventually? Is Bayaz the aliens or builder Mieville?

[saymyname]

That's an incredibly vague question, do you mean in regards to the series or the whole universe. Because if Bayaz hadn't killed Juvens, everything would change. The brothers seem to have been heading for a conflict either way. Kalul would probably not have resorted to Eating...

I only meant in regards to the series. You are of course right in that the whole world would have been completely different without the original struggle between the brothers.

But what if in the beginning of TBI the spirits had not told Logen that he had an invitation from a certain wizard (Bayaz) in the south? And that Bayaz had decided to hole up in his castle and just stay out of it all. I think everything would have gone really bad, really quick.

Personally I'm all for egotistical maniacs desiring world domination.

Sometimes people need to be ruled...

:devil:

Well only if you mean ruled when the alternative is even worse; which is my point exactly: I see Bayaz as a necessary evil.

The aliens are 100% evil (although they have maternal feelings), Ripley is a good 100%, but where on a Aliens-Ripley scale do you put Bayaz?

[The BlackBear]

The Union are the ones who are generally imposing themselves on the rest of the world. They'd have lost Angland and Dagoska (which happens anyway.) It was Bayaz's manipulations that made the Gurkish invade Midderland. The emporer seemed to want peace. Bayaz actions helped Bayaz.

The aliens are 100% evil

I disagree. In D+D Aliens would be Neutral, they kill to survive. Bayaz is the same really, he does what helps him, but doesn't care about anyone else, erring towards evil slightly.

[saymyname]

Question is Kalul an Eater or just his followers?

Khalul is presumed to be the first one.

[red snow]

The Union are the ones who are generally imposing themselves on the rest of the world. They'd have lost Angland and Dagoska (which happens anyway.) It was Bayaz's manipulations that made the Gurkish invade Midderland. The emporer seemed to want peace. Bayaz actions helped Bayaz.

I disagree. In D+D Aliens would be Neutral, they kill to survive. Bayaz is the same really, he does what helps him, but doesn't care about anyone else, erring towards evil slightly.

I'd say the aliens largely act on instinct. Bayaz is the opposite in that his actions are premeditated (often over centuries) so he manipulates and kills people knowing fine well it's all a part of his "game". That he may be doing it for a "greater good" doesn't really absolve him. If Bayaz was incapable of thought and reason then I'd let him off.