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Viserys


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#1 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:34 AM

I feel like Viserys gets a lot of hate that he doesn't deserve (TV show fans mainly, not seen Viserys discussed here much, and you guys are my only book-reader friends)

 

Almost his entire family were murdered and he was forced into exile to a foreign land, being passed from noble to noble as welcomed/unwelcomed guests, eventually having to sell his family's most prized possessions just to feed himself and his sister, which is heartbreaking IMO, whether you like the targs or not. He was probably lauded over by these lords as 'The last Dragon' 'The rightful king' yadda yadda, these things alone are enough to give you madness and a  superiority complex, let alone 100's of years of inbreeding. Viserys never had a proper father figure, to teach him right from wrong, (How long was willem darry alive for?) His anger towards Dany for "Killing their mother" isn't justified but I can understand why, he was torn from the last living member of his family, his mum, for a new sister who he had to raise and feed at the expense of her crown. 

 

He gets hate for his sexual advances towards to Dany, thats a non-starter, we know the Targaryen customs.

 

He gets hate for "selling" Dany to Drogo. No different to the lords of westeros betrothing their sons and daughters to other lords' kids. and Dany eventually loved Drogo, how often does that happen?

 

Dany herself understood the turmoil that must have went on inside Viserys head

 

Spoiler

 

The only thing I can't justify about Viserys is his violence towards Dany and threatening her unborn son, but from his POV, he was drunk(?) and felt aggrieved that things werent moving fast enough to re-take the throne. He gave up his sister/futurewife for the promise of a Crown and it just wasn't happening fast enough, but i can't justify it, dick move. I don't think he really would have cut or killed Dany. He was mad, driven mad by his blood and all the things that happened to him.

 

My inspiration for this post came from the Tyrion-hate threads, where certain people where trying to justify Tyrions rapes, and murders, and usurys, and abuses, and alcoholism, and scheming and kinslaying because of his upbringing. Can Viserys then be excused from his crimes because of his equally bad upbringing? 



#2 Nictarion

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:44 AM

Viserys was a tragic character. I did feel bad for him a little, but at some point enough is enough. Dany continually tried with Viserys, even offering him the dragon eggs. And even Barristan notes he was not right as a child.

#3 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:54 AM

Viserys was a tragic character. I did feel bad for him a little, but at some point enough is enough. Dany continually tried with Viserys, even offering him the dragon eggs. And even Barristan notes he was not right as a child.

 

Yeah but what Targ was "right"? I can only think of two who didn't have asshole natures about them



#4 the Sword of the Prevening

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:56 AM

Viserys was dealt a bad hand, but he was a brat and extremely stupid. I enjoy him as a character but not a huge fan of the person.



#5 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 06:59 AM

Viserys was dealt a bad hand, but he was a brat and extremely stupid. I enjoy him as a character but not a huge fan of the person.

 

not denying he was a brat or that he was stupid, he was both for sure, but do you think he deserves the hate that he gets? taking into account everything that happened to him and his family right up to his golden crown.



#6 Nictarion

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:04 AM

 
Yeah but what Targ was "right"? I can only think of two who didn't have asshole natures about them

Plenty of them,

Dany
Maester Aemon
Rhaegar
Egg
Baelor Breakspear
Daeron ll The Good
Jaehaerys l
Good Queen Alysanne

Edited by Nictarion, 07 December 2013 - 07:04 AM.


#7 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:08 AM

Plenty of them,

Dany
Maester Aemon
Rhaegar
Egg
Baelor Breakspear
Daeron ll The Good
Jaehaerys l
Good Queen Alysanne

 

Dany - no, i disagree, i cant stand Dany anymore and I used to love her

Maester Amemon - I forgot about him, my bad, call it the 3 who don't have asshole about 'em

Rhaegar - well, thats debatable, If i was Elia of Dorne I think i could think of a few reasons to hate him..

Egg - one of the two i mentioned before

Baelor Breakspear - one of the two i mentioned before

Daeron II the good - don't know

Jaehaerys I - dont know

Alysanne - Don't know

 

 

as you can seen, I don't really know that much about the Targs >.<



#8 Stan the Man Baratheon

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:08 AM

Plenty of them,

Dany
Maester Aemon
Rhaegar
Egg
Baelor Breakspear
Daeron ll The Good
Jaehaerys l
Good Queen Alysanne

 

Plenty of them,

Dany
Maester Aemon
Rhaegar
Egg
Baelor Breakspear
Daeron ll The Good
Jaehaerys l
Good Queen Alysanne

Now you are completely correct. Only a few.



#9 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:13 AM

 

Now you are completely correct. Only a few.

 

lulz, your opinion on Viserys StanDAMAN?



#10 Nictarion

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:14 AM

Whatever you feel about Dany, she certainly doesn't have the "asshole gene". She may be cruel to her enemies, but she's also probably the most compassionate character in the story when it comes to slaves, the sick, children, common people, etc...

#11 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:16 AM

Whatever you feel about Dany, she certainly doesn't have the "asshole gene". She may be cruel to her enemies, but she's also probably the most compassionate character in the story when it comes to slaves, the sick, children, common people, etc...

 

She didn't do much for the Yunkai, "liberated" them sure, but subjected them to king after king and after queen and then for what? to be slaughtered, i dont doubt she has a good heart and she really does care for these people, but shes an idiot and she was wroth like the mad king



#12 Nictarion

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:16 AM

as you can seen, I don't really know that much about the Targs >.<

The Dunk and Egg stories give a lot of info on them. I think Baelor Breakspear is the most noble and honorable characters in the history of Westeros.

#13 Nictarion

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:19 AM

 
She didn't do much for the Yunkai, "liberated" them sure, but subjected them to king after king and after queen and then for what? to be slaughtered, i dont doubt she has a good heart and she really does care for these people, but shes an idiot and she was wroth like the mad king

She's nothing like the mad king. Viserys was his fathers son.

#14 Stan the Man Baratheon

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:19 AM

 

lulz, your opinion on Viserys StanDAMAN?

Viserys i feel sorry about the guy, been through a lot in his childhood. But i don't excuse his behaviour towards Dany, as much as i hate her, no brother should ever behave like that. Like you said it could be Targ-gene problem.



#15 Michael Herman

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:21 AM

Certainly every character is sympathetic if you look at them from the right angle, as they all have a reason to be the way they are. But Viserys we a fool and an asshole.



#16 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:21 AM

The Dunk and Egg stories give a lot of info on them. I think Baelor Breakspear is the most noble and honorable characters in the history of Westeros.

 

I just finished my first read through of Dunk and Egg, thats why Egg and Baelor were in my "two" :P I'll be honest i gasped when Baelor stood up to fight for Dunk (yes i'm easily excited like that) I agree, he was definitely one of the most honourable and noble in the history of westeros.

 

but i don't remember much about Daemon II or Jaehaerys, I need to pay more attention



#17 Stan the Man Baratheon

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:22 AM

She's nothing like the mad king. Viserys was his fathers son.

Same goes for Dany she is as much as mad king's daughter as much as Viserys was. Astapor knows how great Dany's "noble act" of freeing slaves and how did that turn out of for "Slavers" bay.


Edited by Stan the Man Baratheon, 07 December 2013 - 07:23 AM.


#18 Michael Herman

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:23 AM

Whatever you feel about Dany, she certainly doesn't have the "asshole gene". She may be cruel to her enemies, but she's also probably the most compassionate character in the story when it comes to slaves, the sick, children, common people, etc...

She doesn't seem to have thought about how her conquest will involve burning thousands of common people alive.



#19 Guillotine

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:23 AM

Plenty of them,

Dany
Maester Aemon
Rhaegar
Egg
Baelor Breakspear
Daeron ll The Good
Jaehaerys l
Good Queen Alysanne


Targ fanboys. Priceless.

OT: yeah, I have sympathy for Viserys. He was dealt a bad hand, growing up believing himself Prince and then exiled at a young age. Still, acted like a total ****. Really turned against him when I learned of how he planned to rape Dany. 

Didn't deserve to die like that though. Although, when you consider how Aerys murdered Rickard....the sins of the father and all....



#20 Firefawkz

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 07:24 AM

She's nothing like the mad king. Viserys was his fathers son.

 

no shes not like the mad king, but she has a temper similar to him ; MMD, the masters nailed to posts, the so&so's daughters being tortured. and we've seen her rants and raves.