What is 'plot armor'?

[Woman of War]

Cas Stark, on 28 Jul 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

Sansa can't be said to have plot armor even though she's alive because her arc is so straightforward...highborn girl kept hostage so her name and lineage can be used to someone's advantage.

...

Sansa has been saved just in time by Sandor and Tyrion in emergency service.

But the biggest example of so called plot armor would be Sansa's maidenhead who must be plot armored with Valyrian steel. :D

[Ser Creighton]

I see it as more when characters go through multiple death defying adventures and don't die.

Sansa can't be said to have plot armor even though she's alive because her arc is so straightforward...highborn girl kept hostage so her name and lineage can be used to someone's advantage.

Tyrion on the other hand, has now gone through so many death defying situations, and that's just if we start when he gets to Essos that his plot armor has become ridiculous.

Oh she can't have the plot armor your making up in your head? Well in the plot armor I am making up in my head hers is the heaviest of them all. Basically you want to change the plot to the outcomes you feel should of happened. He should be dead they should dead, sorry not your books.

Tom and Huck went through lots of death defying situations, boy that book sucked.

Gosh it's not possible to walk into a fire and out in the magical fantasy world. Dany should be dead, this is total BS. Plot armor isn't even a real thing it's just slang made up by fans. It's basically just whining from someone not writing the books. Everyone should be dead these people have 10 year winters for gods sake we can't can't even store food for that long.

Please the Oxford English Dictionary definition of Plot Armor is what again? It's called the plot or storyline, that's what it is actually called.

Here maybe this will help.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_(narrative)

[JonisHenryTudor]

But Sansa being still a virgin - that's her plot armor, not escaping death, but escaping rape.

Not necessarily. Just because raped happened, doesn't mean it will always happen. Under this assumption, you would have to argue that most medieval women had "life-armor" or every female was raped, which is just not true.

[Woman of War]

Not necessarily. Just because raped happened, doesn't mean it will always happen. Under this assumption, you would have to argue that most medieval women had "life-armor" or every female was raped, which is just not true.

The funny thing is that Sansa's virginity plays a more prominent role in the books than some characters do, so much maidenhead in distress, Martin obviously making fun of that trope.

No, let's stop it. Characters have a story, main characters have longer stories that should not get boring while they go and life is a journey not a guided tour.

[Cas Stark]

Oh she can't have the plot armor your making up in your head? Well in the plot armor I am making up in my head hers is the heaviest of them all. Basically you want to change the plot to the outcomes you feel should of happened. He should be dead they should dead, sorry not your books.

Tom and Huck went through lots of death defying situations, boy that book sucked.

Gosh it's not possible to walk into a fire and out in the magical fantasy world. Dany should be dead, this is total BS. Plot armor isn't even a real thing it's just slang made up by fans. It's basically just whining from someone not writing the books. Everyone should be dead these people have 10 year winters for gods sake we can't can't even store food for that long.

Please the Oxford English Dictionary definition of Plot Armor is what again? It's called the plot or storyline, that's what it is actually called.

Here maybe this will help.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_(narrative)

And in one fell swoop, half of this forum is pointless...because everything that happens in the books is because the author wrote it that way. So why does anyone ever discuss why a character does anything? Cersei does what she does because the author wrote her that way. Ned died, not because of his decisions or LF decisions, but because the author wrote it that way. Dany's rule in Meereen is the way the author wanted it. No point in discussing what it means for her leadership abilities or future. LOl

There is also not much point in trying to figure out what will happen in the future, because, it will be what the author writes...whether it has been foreshadowed or not, or is or isn't consistent with prior actions.

Neat. Thanks.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Oh she can't have the plot armor your making up in your head? Well in the plot armor I am making up in my head hers is the heaviest of them all. Basically you want to change the plot to the outcomes you feel should of happened. He should be dead they should dead, sorry not your books.

Tom and Huck went through lots of death defying situations, boy that book sucked.

Gosh it's not possible to walk into a fire and out in the magical fantasy world. Dany should be dead, this is total BS. Plot armor isn't even a real thing it's just slang made up by fans. It's basically just whining from someone not writing the books. Everyone should be dead these people have 10 year winters for gods sake we can't can't even store food for that long.

Please the Oxford English Dictionary definition of Plot Armor is what again? It's called the plot or storyline, that's what it is actually called.

Here maybe this will help.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_(narrative)

I would agree to an extent, unless of course you have a ordinary character who has been suffered several major incidents and still lives. Then you might make the case. But I think the problem is, is when people start saying "oh this would happen in real life, etc." Well not necessarily. Just because something does happen, doesn't mean it always happens. i.e. the largest army always wins....

[JonisHenryTudor]

The funny thing is that Sansa's virginity plays a more prominent role in the books than some characters do, so much maidenhead in distress, Martin obviously making fun of that trope.

No, let's stop it. Characters have a story, main characters have longer stories that should not get boring while they go and life is a journey not a guided tour.

That and I might pose this question. Do people want Sansa to be raped? That is a bit disturbing, is it not?

In reality, Dany likely would have died in the Red Waste. So should Martin have just axed that entire segment?

[RoamingRonin]

A character can only do so much and survive so much before things start getting down right silly.

[JonisHenryTudor]

A character can only do so much and survive so much before things start getting down right silly.

This I agree with, but what is too much? If Tyrion fell off the Wall, got up and walked away....well.

Just like in another thread, some of us were debating the idea of life expectancy in the middle ages. Whereas the argument is that most people lived from 35-45 years old, there were some who made it into their late 80s. Considering that Europe was filthy in the Middle Ages, microbes everywhere, wars, disease, famine, etc, are we to argue that these rare individuals had "life armor"? Or a few years back a man lost his wife/baby on Christmas Eve (new born in hospital), and after being declared dead for several minutes, miraculously a pulse returned in both people. Life armor? There are so many of these sort of examples.

[RoamingRonin]

This I agree with, but what is too much? If Tyrion fell off the Wall, got up and walked away....well.

Just like in another thread, some of us were debating the idea of life expectancy in the middle ages. Whereas the argument is that most people lived from 35-45 years old, there were some who made it into their late 80s. Considering that Europe was filthy in the Middle Ages, microbes everywhere, wars, disease, famine, etc, are we to argue that these rare individuals had "life armor"? Or a few years back a man lost his wife/baby on Christmas Eve (new born in hospital), and after being declared dead for several minutes, miraculously a pulse returned in both people. Life armor? There are so many of these sort of examples.

It depends on the reader. I prefer the term "suspension of disbelief" to plot armor.

[The Mother of The Others]

The way I'd explain plot armor is this: if you see someone doing stomach crunches, it's because they plan on taking their shirt off in public at some future point. Because otherwise, what'd be the point of doing stomach crunches? Why would they put in the work and then not use it???? That's plot armor. In a nutshell. Work has been put in by the author to build up a character....... surely for some reason. And if we haven't seen that payoff yet in terms of that character showing us something after all that buildup, then people assume the character will live long enough to show us their reason for inclusion in the story. (aka they have yet to bare their midriff). That's why the Wedding blindsided people, because it was like George had Robb work out on an eliptical machine nonstop for a year and then had the character hit by a mack truck before we saw his abs.

[Mal Malenkirk]

In a sense, every main character ever written have a form of 'plot armor', but the term is usually brought up when a character avoids unfortunate consequences for no visible in-universe reason, leaving us to conclude the universe give them freebie because they are important to the plot.

Sometime a character can get lucky and that's a form of plot armor but hardly a sin if it's not his a constant occurrence.

ASOIAF is better than most at avoiding glaring case of plot armor but there are some.

1 - Tyrion's continued survival in battles.

2 - Between the moment the dragons hatched and the moment Dany get an army, there has been way too many opportunities for other powerful parties to just kill her and her piddly little khaleesar and take the dragons by force. The only reason it did not happen is clearly plot armor.

There are other lesser cases but these two are especially confounding.

[Ziriath]

Best armour ever invented, it cannot be paid with gold. It's very light, invisible and usually worn under one's skin. Even the characters themselves do not know they wear it.

Cons:

-Sometimes does not protect against various disfigurements and loss of body parts though.

-can disappear suddenly.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Tyrion normally would have died multiple times , but is saved everytime.

Arya escapes death a number of times.

Jon Snow dies, but is resurrected.

Dany is saved several times from attempts to kill her.

The main characters all have heavy plot armor, because they are vital to the end of story and cannot be killed yet.

Ned, Robb, Catelyn were killed off because they had no plot armor.

When did Jon die?

[The Marquis de Leech]

But the biggest example of so called plot armor would be Sansa's maidenhead who must be plot armored with Valyrian steel. :D

Nah, Sansa is simply too damn valuable. Even Littlefinger realises she needs to be kept intact so he can get her wedding to Tyrion annulled.

Which leaves Tyrion himself, and Tyrion's refusal to penetrate Sansa is perfectly within his character.

[Arya Targaryen]

When you tell a story, and you know the end - and who will make it to the end, you usually use those characters, and follow their paths from the beginning. That means, they have to survive becuase you already know they have a role to play in the endgame. Those characters are the "main characters".

Even if you tell a story based on real life, you already know the outcome. Just imagine a film about someone who survuved two plane crashes because he missed both planes (it happened). Maybe he has a life that's worth telling, so you decide to write a book about him/make a movie. Does this person have a plot armor because he survived those plane crashes? If you don't know the stary is based on real life, you may dismiss it like "it's ridiculous, noone ever gets that lucky *plot armor, plot armor* ". But is it really plot armor?

Books are written about people who usually make it to the end (and either die there or not). The writer already knows the outcome and starts the story accordingly. We could have ignored Dany and her storyline completely, and have her to turn up only in the final book, with dragons, and take the throne - would it be better? If GRRM decided she will be there at the end, it perfectly makes sense that we also get to see her journey. Does she have plot armor? Sure. Otherwise she would die, won't ever turn up in Westeros, but then there would be no point in telling her story to begin with. The same goes for other main characters.

The only thing a writer can do is to "hide" his main characters, so the readers won't be able to guess who has the plot armor and who doesn't. After the fifth book, however, that's sort of difficult. But GRRM did well in the first 3.

[I'm the Party Pooper]

Once upon a time, there was a child who had a trip into an abandoned mine sitting on a small tourist train.

Despite of the warnings of danger, he dared standing up on his feet while the train was running, looking back at his class mates.

An iron lamina, sticking out from the ceiling at the height of his neck, would have beheaded him - or almost beheaded, which might have cause his death by blood loss in few minutes - if he wouldn't have been warned of the danger.. turning his head at the very last moment and sitting back down.

That boy was me.

On many other occasions luck has avoided - or limited - bad consequences to me, on others It didn't.

If I was the main character of a novel, that would be called 'plot armour' by people hating reading through the rest of my boring existence.

[Mikkel]

The way I'd explain plot armor is this: if you see someone doing stomach crunches, it's because they plan on taking their shirt off in public at some future point. Because otherwise, what'd be the point of doing stomach crunches? Why would they put in the work and then not use it???? That's plot armor. In a nutshell. Work has been put in by the author to build up a character....... surely for some reason. And if we haven't seen that payoff yet in terms of that character showing us something after all that buildup, then people assume the character will live long enough to show us their reason for inclusion in the story. (aka they have yet to bare their midriff). That's why the Wedding blindsided people, because it was like George had Robb work out on an eliptical machine nonstop for a year and then had the character hit by a mack truck before we saw his abs.

Bad example w/ the abs, there's definitely such a thing as wanting to look (and feel) good for yourself, and perhaps your partner, without having any particular desire or plan to take your shirt off in public ;)

[SeanF]

Plenty of people have "plot armour" in real life (ie luck). Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Caesar etc. all had plenty of narrow escapes from death and could all have been killed long before they became famous.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Plenty of people have "plot armour" in real life (ie luck). Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, Caesar etc. all had plenty of narrow escapes from death and could all have been killed long before they became famous.

No. Life Armor. ;).

But yes.