Marvel Cinematic Universe: General Discussion

[protar]

I thought I'd make this thread as just a general place people could talk and speculate about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, especially were it might be going in the latter half of phase 2 and beyond. I was seeing the Spiderman Trailer thread being derailed by interesting, but only tangentially connected posts about the MCU so I thought it'd be nice to have a little hub for all our MCU talk :).

Say what you will about the films, but I would hands down call this the most ambitious feat ever pulled off by cinema, so even as someone who's never read the comics it interests me greatly.

Occaisonal Anarchist made this post in the Spiderman thread which I think is a good discussion point to launch off of:

I was reading some interesting stuff today on the internet about how Marvel is rebooting the Inhumans in their comic universe and making them incredibly important as a way to get around not being able to use the term 'mutants' and not being able to use any of the X-universe characters in their movie universe. The Inhumans are going to be taking on the role of the oppressed threat to humanity in Marvel's universe, and the rumors are that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch will be made into Inhumans in Avengers 2, to introduce their race into the current Marvel movieverse.

That might be even more interesting than them being able to come to an agreement to open up the licensing for all of their characters.

I'm not familiar with the inhumans, but kudos to Marvel for finding a way around the whole mutant issue. I believe that it's way too much trouble to try and tie the X-men into the MCU at this point even if legal issues were sorted out. So this is a very neat move. If some sort of deal could be sorted out with Sony and Spiderman (whose continuity is still fairly unestablished.) and if the Fantastic Four rights revert back to Marvel Studios (barely any word of the 2015 reboot), we may be looking at a pretty complete MCU at last.

[WTFSalami]

Excellent idea.

My question is is this just going to focus on ONLY Marvel Studios cinematic universe or the entire spectrum of the Marvel comics movies ie. Fox and Sony?

[Madfunkymonkey]

If the WB and Disney can get together to make "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" Then Sony, Fox and Disney can make a deal for the Ultimate Marvel movie with The X-men, FF, Avengers and Spiderman.

We all know that if a movie had all those characters in a huge kick ass battle for the Universe. That movie would become the highest grossing movie of all time.

The movie could have a billion in all total costs to make and still make a billion in profit.

[Sci-2]

Here was some discussion:

Your picks for Marvel Phase III and beyond?

[protar]

Excellent idea.

My question is is this just going to focus on ONLY Marvel Studios cinematic universe or the entire spectrum of the Marvel comics movies ie. Fox and Sony?

Focusing on the MCU for the most part was my goal, but I think getting some Fox and Sony discussion in here too would be good, especially when talking legal stuff and potential crossovers :).

[Jon AS]

I'm really not sure that throwing a ton of superpowered characters into the movie universe is a particularly good idea. Right now all the superpowered characters are truly unique, but when there's tons of them running around it is going to come at the cost of story focus and theme.

My Marvel reading experience is limited to a few big events, in particular the Infinity Gauntlet stuff, and while there was a shitton of characters involved in those stories, they mostly didn't do anything. I just don't see the appeal.

Also at some point superpowers are either going to get repetitive (oh, look: another super strong, super tough guy who can fly!) or really silly/situational.

[WTFSalami]

Here was some discussion:

Your picks for Marvel Phase III and beyond?

Yeah I'm gonna stick with my original pick of seeing a Midnight Sons movie. I've been championing that cause in a few different threads now.

You could really make it the "Supernatural Avengers" of the Marvel Studios movieverse. Who doesn't want to see Ghost Rider, Blade, Dr. Strange, Werewolf, and Mobius fighting off an army of allied demons and vampires that have invaded the Earth?

You could even do it in the exact opposite way that you did the Avengers. Start with the big team-up movie and spin that into the solo reboots of Ghost Rider, Blade, and the first Dr. Strange movie.

[protar]

I'm really not sure that throwing a ton of superpowered characters into the movie universe is a particularly good idea. Right now all the superpowered characters are truly unique, but when there's tons of them running around it is going to come at the cost of story focus and theme.

My Marvel reading experience is limited to a few big events, in particular the Infinity Gauntlet stuff, and while there was a shitton of characters involved in those stories, they mostly didn't do anything. I just don't see the appeal.

Also at some point superpowers are either going to get repetitive (oh, look: another super strong, super tough guy who can fly!) or really silly/situational.

Well if they truly want to make this a cinematic Universe the aim should be to move beyond just the Avengers franchise and have multiple separate stories, some more connected than others. So we might have the Avengers, the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Inhumans, but all 3 of them together don't have to take down Ultron. That can just be the Avengers and Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver. That way you get all these characters that people want, whilst keeping character focus.

[Jon AS]

Well if they truly want to make this a cinematic Universe the aim should be to move beyond just the Avengers franchise and have multiple separate stories, some more connected than others. So we might have the Avengers, the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Inhumans, but all 3 of them together don't have to take down Ultron. That can just be the Avengers and Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver. That way you get all these characters that people want, whilst keeping character focus.

The trouble is that the Avengers and SHIELD already operate on a global level. Any other bigger story will have to come up with excuses why plenty of other characters don't get involved or simply can't be set on Earth, like the second Thor film and Guardians of the Galaxy, otherwise the universe will quickly lose any semblance of verisimilitude.

[The BlackBear]

Let's have the Hulk in another film. He deserves to be redeemed from Incredible Hulk.

[WTFSalami]

I really want to see Planet Hulk and World War Hulk.

[The BlackBear]

I really want to see Planet Hulk and World War Hulk.

I'll wait to see Guardians before I decide whether they can pull it off. It'd be heavily reliant on Special effects/prosthetics, Banner is barely in it (he has what 2 pages in the comic,) I feel it might be a step too far.

[WTFSalami]

I'll wait to see Guardians before I decide whether they can pull it off. It'd be heavily reliant on Special effects/prosthetics, Banner is barely in it (he has what 2 pages in the comic,) I feel it might be a step too far.

Who cares about Banner? It wouldn't be called Planet Banner or World War Banner.

In a world where Star Wars and Avatar could work, then there's no reason why something like Planet Hulk couldn't work.

[The BlackBear]

Who cares about Banner? It wouldn't be called Planet Banner or World War Banner.

In a world where Star Wars and Avatar could work, then there's no reason why something like Planet Hulk couldn't work.

What made the Hulk work in the Avengers was in no small part due to Mark Ruffalo as Banner. Hulk talking is a hard pill to swallow in live action.

[WTFSalami]

I'm willing to bet that was the absolute smallest part of why the Hulk worked in the Avengers. The Hulk worked in the Avengers because he destroyed a Norse God as if he was nothing more than a rag doll, and that's all people wanted to see the Hulk do.

Who wouldn't want to see the Hulk as a slave on another planet with warpaint and a war axe fighting in gladiator pits before eventually taking the entire place over? How does that not sound like the most badass movie ever (Assuming one likes the Hulk)?

And I really wish the movies would stop making the Hulk a moron who can't speak properly. Let him actually be able to communicate like someone with a brain and the pill will go down very easily.

[Jon AS]

I'm willing to bet that was the absolute smallest part of why the Hulk worked in the Avengers. The Hulk worked in the Avengers because he destroyed a Norse God as if he was nothing more than a rag doll, and that's all people wanted to see the Hulk do.

No, the reason Hulk worked in The Avengers was not because of a five second CGI action scene, it was because despite of how hectic and crowded the movie was there was still enough time spent on the characters. If it had not been for the film taking time to establish Banner as an actual character instead of just using the Hulk for action set pieces it would have fallen completely flat.

And I really wish the movies would stop making the Hulk a moron who can't speak properly. Let him actually be able to communicate like someone with a brain and the pill will go down very easily.

That would obviously help, but to most people (myself included) the Hulk doesn't really exist as a character independent of Banner. A whole movie in which he's just the big green CGI monstrosity would be a hard sell. Even more so if he's on another planet separated from all other established characters of the movie universe.

[Sci-2]

I'd like to see Hulk in outer space. That an World War Hulk - there's a great scene where's fighting a dude who can change into your first fears. The guy transforms into a bunch of figures from Hulk's past but soon finds his powers stop working.

Hulk tells him to go back to his masters (meaning Stark and some other assholes) and let them know Hulk no longer fear anything.

(World War Hulk - That was Pak right? For the record I might his sister once in passing - pretty cute.)

[protar]

The trouble is that the Avengers and SHIELD already operate on a global level. Any other bigger story will have to come up with excuses why plenty of other characters don't get involved or simply can't be set on Earth, like the second Thor film and Guardians of the Galaxy, otherwise the universe will quickly lose any semblance of verisimilitude.

It's true that it's a problem but it can be worked around (And it's already become an issue that they're dealing with with Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier.). You could have more stories that take place around a similar time to explain why so and so can't help the Avengers against whoever (the tactic they're doing with IM3/WS).

They could also have firmly established "arenas" for the characters to play in. You'd have the street level arena with Spidey, Venom and Daredevil (assuming the Spiderman rights are ever obtained in some way.); The international arena with the Avengers, and the Inhumans; the supernatural side of things with Strange and Ghost Rider, and then the cosmic arena with Guardians of the Galaxy and I don't know Nova Corps. Then a couple like Thor and (if the rights return) F4 can flit in between.

There's no reason to call in the Avengers when dealing with Kingpin, the street level heroes can't really do loads against Ultron, the supernatural heroes are the only guys with much hope against supernatural villains and the cosmic heroes are out doing their own thing in some remote corner of the Galaxy.

[Jon AS]

That could work, but they have to be really careful not to cross the "Avengers threshold" with the lower level villains. Basically the moment too many people's lives are at stake the question why SHIELD or one of the more powerful heroes isn't showing up to help save the day will become an issue. Hell, the SHIELD series (admittedly not the finest the Marvel universe has to offer) has already run into that problem.

ETA: I also don't think the Spiderman or Fantastic Four will be given a run in the Marvel continuity any time soon, and the X-Men definitely won't be. Even if the next two X-Men films tank Fox will remember that rebooting Spiderman after only ten years worked so they'll do that before giving up a slice of the profits.

[RedEyedGhost]

Yeah I'm gonna stick with my original pick of seeing a Midnight Sons movie. I've been championing that cause in a few different threads now.

You could really make it the "Supernatural Avengers" of the Marvel Studios movieverse. Who doesn't want to see Ghost Rider, Blade, Dr. Strange, Werewolf, and Mobius fighting off an army of allied demons and vampires that have invaded the Earth?

You could even do it in the exact opposite way that you did the Avengers. Start with the big team-up movie and spin that into the solo reboots of Ghost Rider, Blade, and the first Dr. Strange movie.

I, too, would enjoy this very much. But I doubt that it happens very soon with the poor reception these characters received previously.

Who owns the rights to Punisher? He would fit in well with what Netflix is doing (and be more interesting than most of those characters).