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Marvel Cinematic Universe: General Discussion

protar

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Shryke Council Member

Shryke

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I think Winter Soldier would've been better and made a much more impactful statement if they'd have just dropped the Hydra crap.

That said, it's still one of the better MCU movies.

Like the first Cap movie, it truly suffers alot from trying to be an MCU/comicbook movie.

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Mike Council Member

Mike

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Main issue is that you can't do a good Spidey without strong SFX which means you can't do a TV show with him. I don't want budget spidey where 95% of the episode is him not being spider-man. I'm still concerned this may be an issue with Daredevil but it's amplified far more with Spidey.

Otherwise, I agree that Spidey works best as a street level hero - not one flying into space to fight Thanos.

That is a good point. Still, SFX on TV has gotten a lot better over the last few years, and a Spidey show would probably be able to get green lit with a huge budget. Not enough to make it a spectacle, but I think I'd rather have a Spider-Man that focused on the characters and not on the action. I've seen enough CGI Spidey over the last decade to be okay with a de-emphasis.

10 eps, nix the villain of the week angle, make it about the big story (Osborn/GG or draw that out?), have a couple of big action sets during the season, and focus on the characters. They pony up a bit more for some web swinging scenes, fudge the generic crime stops with Arrow style fight scenes, throw in some good quippage, and I'd watch that and buy the box sets. And it would cost, what? 100 million? Ugh. Yeah, you're probably right.

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Sci-2 Council Member

Sci-2

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The limits of buzz: How DC comics is winning its war with Marvel — on television

...And given that budgets are smaller for TV shows — meaning less time and resources for CGI, choreographed action sequences, stunt doubles, special effects, costly set pieces, and oh yeah, going to four different cities to shoot — it begins to be harder and harder to understand DC’s success. How do you bring totemic figures to the small screen, to the medium that made a name for itself by privileging moral ambiguity over moral absolutes? How do you afford to tell a superhero story with limited resources? Why is DC — the older company whose model is lagging behind Marvel’s — better at television?

At least one major reason is that the DC shows have found ways to make their constraints into assets. Precisely because they can’t rely on the location-establishing shots of real places, the DC shows occupy a fascinating and inviting space that’s part fact, part fiction. It’s not always easy to find shows on television where fantasy and reality happily coexist — not when almost everything is filmed in either Los Angeles or New York, because that’s cheapest for production studios. But Fox’s “Gotham” is a moody, dark cityscape, punctuated by crumbling grandeur and sheets of gray rain. And Starling City in “Arrow” is an urban playground, where protagonist Oliver Queen can scale buildings using just a bow and arrow before showing up to a board meeting in a suit and tie....

“S.H.I.E.L.D.’s” problems are likely the Marvel films’ strengths. After all, the ABC show exists almost primarily as a tie-in to the films — the same actors play the same characters across the universe, so Nick Fury is played by Samuel L. Jackson in both “The Avengers” and “S.H.I.E.L.D.” Vox’s culture editor Todd VanDerWerff wrote a great piece yesterday on the Marvel franchise, and I quote: “What Marvel, especially, is very good at doing is churning out product and keeping it just enough above the quality line that we’ll go back for more. That list of films above might as well be a list of fast-food hamburgers we’ll be eating for the rest of the decade.”

If Marvel’s films are hamburgers, “S.H.I.E.L.D.’s” every episode is one single French fry. It’s just enough to keep you going back for more, and because Marvel has such a unified, coherent vision for the next decade or two, that’s all every episode needs to be. Meanwhile, DC isn’t unified in the slightest — the company’s vision is half-baked at best, and while some of their film efforts have been wildly successful, others have been flops. It’s probably hideously disorganized, but it appears to offer the creators a little more creative freedom.

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protar Council Member

protar

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:agree: Definitely. I was really disappointed that they turned out to be the villain. If they'd kept it as an intelligence agency going too far it might have been in my top 3 MCU movies.

We should be getting that in Civil War though.

Is Thanos going to be the Big Bad of the MCU?

Of the first three phases, but we're definitely getting phases beyond that.

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Fiddler Council Member

Fiddler

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Is The Arrow series worth watching? Is it better than Smallville and does it have too many flashbacks (i hate flashbacks)?

I can't say anything about Smallville, but I love Arrow.

Then again, if you hate flashbacks, you may not like Arrow. Quite a bit of flashbacks to help lend depth to the stories.

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Shryke Council Member

Shryke

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I literally just started watching Arrow this week.



It's 100% better then Smallville, but I would not call it actually good.



Whoever is running this show is great imo. The show, frmo the overall ideas to the individual episodes ideas, is brilliant. Makes almost all the right choices. It's just the execution. It has neither the quality of acting or writing or directing it needs to live up to the quality of it's ideas.



Ultimately, imo, it's a show that ends up a solid B. It's fun, it's got good ideas but it just can't climb past decent.


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Shryke Council Member

Shryke

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Also, if I looked like Stephen Amell, I would totally randomly do the salmon ladder shirtless all the time too.



"Oh, hi <grunt> guys. Thanks for <grunt> coming to my <grunt> party. Sorry, you just <grunt> caught me in the middle <grunt> of something. Totally <grunt> randomly of course."


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red snow Council Member

red snow

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Is The Arrow series worth watching? Is it better than Smallville and does it have too many flashbacks (i hate flashbacks)?

Gave up on Smallville after two seasons while I'm still enjoying Arrow. The first season is essentially "batman" on TV but with some family drama (maybe this is why Batman works as there's no family for soap opera?). It becomes more its own beast in season 2 and has some great moments but sometimes suffers from too much happening without the finesse you could see if they spent more time on "key" issues. The biggest problem is a character who everyone hates but the writers love - which is odd as they write utterly stupid arcs for that character.

The acting is ropey but I get the impression the main cast are having the time of their lives and their enthusiasm makes up for the lack of skill.

Also, if I looked like Stephen Amell, I would totally randomly do the salmon ladder shirtless all the time too.

"Oh, hi <grunt> guys. Thanks for <grunt> coming to my <grunt> party. Sorry, you just <grunt> caught me in the middle <grunt> of something. Totally <grunt> randomly of course."

EDIT: I'd never take my shirt off wear a shirt and would get rid of stairs so I could salmon ladder more often.

Why would someone do that to us?

That is a good point. Still, SFX on TV has gotten a lot better over the last few years, and a Spidey show would probably be able to get green lit with a huge budget. Not enough to make it a spectacle, but I think I'd rather have a Spider-Man that focused on the characters and not on the action. I've seen enough CGI Spidey over the last decade to be okay with a de-emphasis.

10 eps, nix the villain of the week angle, make it about the big story (Osborn/GG or draw that out?), have a couple of big action sets during the season, and focus on the characters. They pony up a bit more for some web swinging scenes, fudge the generic crime stops with Arrow style fight scenes, throw in some good quippage, and I'd watch that and buy the box sets. And it would cost, what? 100 million? Ugh. Yeah, you're probably right.

TV will get there eventually. It's just a shame western audiences can't embrace animation fully for it to succeed without being primarily aimed at children. Not that it stops me from watching a good spider-man cartoon. Spectacular was excellent. Ultimate Spider-man felt more aimed at kids which is fine but not my thing. I agree that Parker's everyday life lends itself well to a TV drama - it's just that the villains are tricky to handle still.

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Veltigar Council Member

Veltigar

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The biggest problem is a character who everyone hates but the writers love - which is odd as they write utterly stupid arcs for that character.

This has got to be Laurel right? I could not stand her at all.

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DaveSumm Council Member

DaveSumm

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Is The Arrow series worth watching? Is it better than Smallville and does it have too many flashbacks (i hate flashbacks)?

It's a lot better than Smallville, things actually happen to the plot every week and it keeps you on your toes. I'll paraphrase everyone else's comments to this; it's very good........for a CW show. It's also a shit ton better than MAoS, just to bring things back on topic.

ETA: The flashbacks don't really function like flashbacks for the most part, they're more of a subplot that happens to take place 5 years ago. They're a continuous story of the Island as opposed to the episodic main plot.

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red snow Council Member

red snow

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While Arrow and Flash (so far) are certainly better the SHIELD - I'd say Gotham has quickly become as lacklustre as the Marvel attempts. I'm crossing my fingers that the Netflix show will work far better as it sounds like they are being produced as 12 hour movies so shouldn't look as budget as SHIELD does. I think that's something that the DC shows do better - they all look pretty good for 22 episode TV shows. They must have good set designers and directors to keep the illusion. Or Marvel is just cheap with their TV.



The odd thing is that both companies make great cartoons. Although I'd say the marvel ones have oddly suffered since they came under the Disney umbrella. MArvel cartoon movies suck though, while the DC ones are 50/50 mediocre/great.


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