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Stannis Baratheon: Worst Human Rights Abuser in Westeros?


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#1 Éadaoin

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:23 PM

Disclaimer: E-Ro was not involved in the making of this thread in any way, shape, or form: the message contained herein is not one that he agrees with. Also, no StanStans were harmed in the making of this post.

 

It’s pretty obvious that Stannis inspires a sort of hero worship in some fans, and I honestly find this perplexing because, as a person, Stannis comes up lacking to me in a few crucial areas. Consider for instance his deplorable human rights record. Is this the guy you want ruling Westeros? Here’s a brief rundown as I see it:

 

  1. Executions without trial: A blatant example of an abuse of human rights—the right to a fair trial is essentially an inalienable right as far as most are concerned. 

 

  1. Cruel and unusual punishment: Both 1) mutilating Davos and 2) the whole burning people alive thing would not be condoned by any remotely decent humanitarian. Or any kind of humanitarian at all. Another strike against Stannis where human rights are involved.

 

  1. Freedom of religion: Though I wanted to be on Stannis’ side because he’s apparently an atheist, he then went ahead and burned the effigies of the Seven, along with the weirwoods, anyway. And then there’s the fact that he’s into Mel in the first place.

 

  1. Freedom of speech: Stannis doesn’t have a great track record wrt freedom of speech, either. Not only does he kill Alestor Florent for exercising this basic right, but he also refuses to let Davos speak up against Melisandre. He also imprisons political dissenters.

 

  1. Anti-gay agenda: “In your bed she’s like to die that way.” Not content with merely spreading this kind of hate vocally, Stannis then goes so far as to actually murder his brother, who also happens to be gay— coincidence? I’m not going to outright label this as a hate crime, but it’s certainly something to think about.

 

Just some things to think about when you next try to determine who would really make for the best potential King/Queen of Westeros.



#2 El Guapo

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:26 PM

Yeah this thread should be good.


Edited by El Guapo, 12 December 2013 - 10:27 PM.


#3 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:30 PM

No.

 

The correct answer is Cersei.

 

Executions without trial: Hello Mycah, hello Robert's bastards

Cruel and unusual punishment: Qyburn

Freedom of speech: Remember those puppet show people?

Anti gay agenda: "Ser Loras lusts for glory as real men lust for women" Insults Jaime for thinking Loras is manly and is likely talking down on Loras homosexuality.

Anti Dwarf agenda: She refers to them as "monsters"

Lack of respects for sexual rights of women: Basically makes fun of Sansa because she is going to be raped by Tyrion, enjoys the notion of Marg and her young cousins being sexually harassed by septas


Edited by Strongboar_Crakehall, 12 December 2013 - 10:43 PM.


#4 Nictarion

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:32 PM

Yeah this thread should be good.

My thoughts exactly.

#5 Winter's Knight

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:33 PM

Hi, I'm Winter's Knight and I approve this message.



#6 Stan the Man Baratheon

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:36 PM

No.

 

The correct answer is Cersei.

or Dany.



#7 Black Rider of the East

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:39 PM

Winter's Knight, Nictarion, and Eadoaoin, I name you complete idiots. You judge a man who's culture embraces all you have listed Eadoain, as good and true and you think he's an abuser? He does what he was raised to do. You might as well judge a caveman for thinking the Earth is flat. You two are true fools.


Edited by Black Rider of the East, 12 December 2013 - 10:41 PM.


#8 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:40 PM

Cersei pretty much almost committed genocide.


Edited by Strongboar_Crakehall, 12 December 2013 - 10:40 PM.


#9 Alistair's Pantaloons

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:40 PM

Cersei, Dany, Joffrey, Roose, Ramsay... all much worse tbh.



#10 Nictarion

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:41 PM

or Dany.

She only fits the first 2 points, Stannis is 5 out of 5. And she's not in Westeros anyway.

#11 Usrnmhsnomning

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:42 PM

1. You might not like the trials he allows, but as king he can hold trials by himself, act as judge and jury, and it's perfectly legal.

 

1. Davos got off lucky, the typical penalty for thievery is the loss of a hand or two. Some finger halves for being a smuggler? Sounds fair enough imo. Execution by fire I don't agree with though.

 

1. While he's prepared to allow some fervent actions in the name of R'hllor, has Stannis shown any real propensity towards punishing or restricting beliefs? I think he actively argued against such actions at the Wall.

 

1. Freedom of speech isn't as it sounds; you don't have freedom to say whatever to whoever. Also, Florent was executed for treason (seeking terms without his kings consent), and ordering a soldier to stop talking isn't a restriction on freedom of speech.

 

1. Top kek. That's the first time I've seen someone accuse Stannis 'duty between the sheets only' Baratheon of homophobia and/or hatred of gays based off of a single line of jest the likes of which have previously been used on himself


Edited by Usrnmhsnomning, 12 December 2013 - 10:45 PM.


#12 Breaking Stannis

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:46 PM

k

#13 Alistair's Pantaloons

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:48 PM

  1. Anti-gay agenda: “In your bed she’s like to die that way.” Not content with merely spreading this kind of hate vocally, Stannis then goes so far as to actually murder his brother, who also happens to be gay— coincidence? I’m not going to outright label this as a hate crime, but it’s certainly something to think about.

This is pure aurochshit meant to troll.  :bs:



#14 E-Ro

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:48 PM

Disclaimer: E-Ro was not involved in the making of this thread in any way, shape, or form: the message contained herein is not one that he agrees with. Also, no StanStans were harmed in the making of this post.

 Yeah, fortunately I was warned of this ahead of time. Just had to have this here, for my image ya know?
 
  • Executions without trial: A blatant example of an abuse of human rights—the right to a fair trial is essentially an inalienable right as far as most are concerned. 
 
Well, all the people he has executed were actually confessors of their crimes. There was no doubt at all as to their guilt at all. There really is no need for a trial in these cases, especially considering this is westeros. Not 21st century america. 

  • Cruel and unusual punishment: Both 1) mutilating Davos and 2) the whole burning people alive thing would not be condoned by any remotely decent humanitarian. Or any kind of humanitarian at all. Another strike against Stannis where human rights are involved.

 
 That isnt cruel and unusual for westeros though. Its just how things are done there. Randyle tarly washes peoples private parts with lye(google lye burns) westeros is a horrible shitty place and stannis taking davos fingers is light compared to what he might have gotten. 

  • Freedom of religion: Though I wanted to be on Stannis’ side because he’s apparently an atheist, he then went ahead and burned the effigies of the Seven, along with the weirwoods, anyway. And then there’s the fact that he’s into Mel in the first place.

 

"I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men.

Yeah, he doesnt beleive in gods. He beleives in power. Im an aetheist too, but if I saw a lady doing all sorts of magic tricks, predicting the future, and birthing shadows I would have doubts. Im sure you would as well. 

  • Freedom of speech: Stannis doesn’t have a great track record wrt freedom of speech, either. Not only does he kill Alestor Florent for exercising this basic right, but he also refuses to let Davos speak up against Melisandre. He also imprisons political dissenters.


alestor florent tried to make peace with the kings enemies and marry off his daughter when he had no authority to do so. That isnt excerising a basic right to free speech, thats being a jackass. 

  • Anti-gay agenda: “In your bed she’s like to die that way.” Not content with merely spreading this kind of hate vocally, Stannis then goes so far as to actually murder his brother, who also happens to be gay— coincidence? I’m not going to outright label this as a hate crime, but it’s certainly something to think about.

Not gonna get in on this one, but I dont think this is nearly as bad as you make it sound. "hate crime?" Really brah?

#15 Roland Deschain of Gilead

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:49 PM

I'll give you the first three. But 4 and five are reaching badly.

"Anti gay agenda" for making a joke at your brother's expense isn't really fair imo. He clearly doesn't care before hand.
And most people dont operate a freedom of speach practice in westeros so I feel it harsh to level this on Stannis.

Be interesting to see where this thread goes...

#16 Asha Greyjoy:Feminist Icon

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:51 PM

No.
 
The correct answer is Cersei.
 
Executions without trial: Hello Mycah, hello Robert's bastards
Cruel and unusual punishment: Qyburn
Freedom of speech: Remember those puppet show people?
Anti gay agenda: "Ser Loras lusts for glory as real men lust for women" Insults Jaime for thinking Loras is manly and is likely talking down on Loras homosexuality.
Anti Dwarf agenda: She refers to them as "monsters"
Lack of respects for sexual rights of women: Basically makes fun of Sansa because she is going to be raped by Tyrion, enjoys the notion of Marg and her young cousins being sexually harassed by septas


Now now...is there not room for more than one "Powerful Person with an Abhorrent Human Rights Record" in Westeros? I mean...

Cersei, Dany, Joffrey, Roose, Ramsay... all much worse tbh.


...you strike Dany from this list and you've got the beginnings of the greatest Who's Who of Westerosi Atrocities? that the world has ever seen!
(Dany's just not quite there yet I'm afraid.)

#17 Alistair's Pantaloons

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:52 PM

Now now...is there not room for more than one "Powerful Person with an Abhorrent Human Rights Record" in Westeros? I mean...


...you strike Dany from this list and you've got the beginnings of the greatest Who's Who of Westerosi Atrocities? that the world has ever seen!
(Dany's just not quite there yet I'm afraid.)

She's not full villain yet, but neither is Stannis, and IMO Dany's malarkey has been more horrible than his.



#18 Black Rider of the East

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:52 PM

THis thread is going nowhere fast,. As it should it is stupid. I'm only on to insult the idiots who agree with the posters idea.



#19 Sansa_Stark

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

Now now...is there not room for more than one "Powerful Person with an Abhorrent Human Rights Record" in Westeros? I mean...


...you strike Dany from this list and you've got the beginnings of the greatest Who's Who of Westerosi Atrocities? that the world has ever seen!
(Dany's just not quite there yet I'm afraid.)

 

Because Cersei is much worse than Stannis.

 

Stannis might be up there, but Cersei is clearly higher.



#20 Winter's Knight

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

Oh.Please.

 

Eadie was being gentle. Stannis is a disloyal coward, content to let his brothers stew amongst the Lannisters while he himself fled to DS. What was he doing there, gathering forces for a whole year? When he could have gone North with Robert, or even met him and Ned at the Trident or sent Davos to KL or tried any of a hundred other ways to warn Ned or either of his brothers.

 

But he didn't-either because he's a coward or he was counting on Robert dying-take your pick.