R+L=J v 67

[Ser Leftwich]

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.

A good point, and yet another reason that E-Ro is wrong. Ned obviously isn't jealous of the looks or fighting ability of others, as his love for Robert and un-jealous description of him being 'muscled like a maiden's fantasy' clearly shows.

OnionAhaiReborn made this point about the Ned's difference in attitude towards Brandon and Robert.

To which I responded: Whoa, that is good stuff. IMO, that lends some weight to the Brandon-Ashara idea. Or that Ned would have to cover for some pregnancy-inducing indiscretion of Brandon's by marring whomever.

Thought this may aid in the discussion of who bedded whom at Harrenhal.

[Fire Eater]

One of the castles on the Wall was named for her as well. Queensgate. Before her visit they called it Snowgate.

More foreshadowing for Jon as a monarch as his surname is Snow not counting Alysanne and Jaehaerys being his ancestors. Alysanne left for the Wall when the king, who was wont to travel all over the realm, had come north to discuss matter with his Warden of the North while Jon left for the Wall after King Robert, who was wont travel all over the realm, came north to discuss matters with his Warden of the North, Ned.

Then there are GRRM's descriptions of Alysanne;

Good Queen Alysanne: Age left crow's feet around her eyes . . . In old age her hair turned white as snow.

ETA: Excellent find, J.Stargaryen. I'm surprised I didn't see it, and now that I have, love it.

[Lyse Stark]

One of the castles on the Wall was named for her as well. Queensgate. Before her visit they called it Snowgate.

More foreshadowing for Jon as a monarch as his surname is Snow not counting Alysanne and Jaehaerys being his ancestors. Alysanne left for the Wall when the king, who was wont to travel all over the realm, had come north to discuss matter with his Warden of the North while Jon left for the Wall after King Robert, who was wont travel all over the realm, came north to discuss matters with his Warden of the North, Ned.

Then there are GRRM's descriptions of Alysanne;

And in the HOTU visions in the tv version has snow on the throne.

[corbon]

Why do other noble children seem to know the story of Eddard/Ashara/Rheagar/Lyanna but not the Stark children? The squire Ned Dayne knows something of it, as do the Reeds. They are suprised that the stark children, Arya and Bran, do not know. Is it because of Caitlin or because Ned died before he could tell them?

Ned finds thinking of Lyanna painful (for several reasons) and so avoids the subject.

The Reeds know about Harrenhal because their father is the Little Crannogman whom the story is about.

Ned Dayne doesn;t know much really, but has been told about his dead aunt Ashara by her sister Allyria (who is almost certainly, based on her incomplete engagement to 23ish Lord Berric Dondarrion, far too young to have personal knowledge of the events she tells him about. Almost certainly what Ned Dayne knows about Ashara and Ned is a made up story that explains their sister/aunt Ashara's demise as tragic and noble, as opposed to sordid and miserable) and a very very little about Jon Snow by Wylla-the-wetnurse - who was almost certainly at ToJ and probably just about the only person in westeros who knows anything at all other than Ned Stark and HR.

I'd be highly surprised if anyone else in westeros knows as much as these two families' young'uns, not that they (especially Ned Dayne) necessarily know that much, or that accurately either.

[FrozenFire3]

One of the castles on the Wall was named for her as well. Queensgate. Before her visit they called it Snowgate.

More foreshadowing for Jon as a monarch as his surname is Snow not counting Alysanne and Jaehaerys being his ancestors. Alysanne left for the Wall when the king, who was wont to travel all over the realm, had come north to discuss matter with his Warden of the North while Jon left for the Wall after King Robert, who was wont travel all over the realm, came north to discuss matters with his Warden of the North, Ned.

Then there are GRRM's descriptions of Alysanne;

And to add fuel to the... fire ;)

There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind?

Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (a metaphor for the Silver Prince mayhaps?) left an egg (an offspring or even better, a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.

Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:

King's blood, to wake a dragon. Where Melisandre thinks to find a sleeping dragon, no one is quite sure. It's nonsense. Mance's blood is no more royal than mine own.

This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.

Btw, Happy Festivities to all and sundry :)

[Black Crow]

Merry Christmas to R+L=J from Heresy :commie:

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

FE & FF3, great finds! Love that these little nuggets continue to roll in :)

Happy Christmas to everyone! :cheers:

[MtnLion]

Wishing the Season's Best to one and all.

[Alia of the knife]

And to add fuel to the... fire ;)

Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (a metaphor for the Silver Prince mayhaps?) left an egg (an offspring or even better, a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.

Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:

This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.

Btw, Happy Festivities to all and sundry :)

Thats really beautiful, I love it.

And Happy Holidays to all!!!!:)

[Arya kiddin']

Merry X'mas everyone. :)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

One of the castles on the Wall was named for her as well. Queensgate. Before her visit they called it Snowgate.

More foreshadowing for Jon as a monarch as his surname is Snow not counting Alysanne and Jaehaerys being his ancestors. Alysanne left for the Wall when the king, who was wont to travel all over the realm, had come north to discuss matter with his Warden of the North while Jon left for the Wall after King Robert, who was wont travel all over the realm, came north to discuss matters with his Warden of the North, Ned.

Then there are GRRM's descriptions of Alysanne;

ETA: Excellent find, J.Stargaryen. I'm surprised I didn't see it, and now that I have, love it.

The castle names are a great find! :D

I doubt that the SSM descriptions can be taken as hints. They come from interviews, right? I could be wrong about this, of course. If GRRM starts providing hints in such ways as well, I can only say that it is real dedication of him :)

Merry Christmas to you all! :D

[Ygrain]

Merry Christmas to everyone!

[The guy from the Vale]

Merry Christmas y'all :)

[Lyse Stark]

And to add fuel to the... fire ;)

Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (a metaphor for the Silver Prince mayhaps?) left an egg (an offspring or even better, a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.

Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:

This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

And yes, Jon is a dragon of the north, or more apprioriately, a Ice Dragon.

[FrozenFire3]

Wishing the Season's Best to one and all.

Do I detect a certain kind of... Led Zeppeliness? :cool4:

[Alia of the knife]

ame="FrozenFire3" post="5256020" timestamp="1387965143"]

And to add fuel to the... fire ;)

Sam wonders if a silver winged dragon (a metaphor for the Silver Prince mayhaps?) left an egg (an offspring or even better, a 'potential dragon') behind on the Wall.

Only a few pages later, Jon seems to involuntarily confirm the metaphor interlacing in one passage the concepts of dragon, king's blood and his own blood:

This line has been discussed ad nauseam but in the light of the previous passage gets even more intriguing: a silver dragon leaves a potential dragon behind, a sleeping dragon whose blood is as royal as the one of a king.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

And yes, Jon is a dragon of the north, or more apprioriately, a Ice Dragon.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/241/5/c/Ice_Dragon_by_thegryph.jpg

[Fire Eater]

"Your stableboy can stay with the horses."

"I'm a squire not a stableboy," Egg insisted. "Are you blind, or only stupid?"

She might mistake him [Jon] for a stableboy and hand him the reins of her horse.

Another connection between Jon and his great-great-grandfather, Aegon V "Egg" Targaryen

I love the additions FrozenFire3

[Lyse Stark]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs36/f/2008/241/5/c/Ice_Dragon_by_thegryph.jpg

Quite fitting image, especially, as Jon was raised in the cold and harsh environment of the North, and he took on much of the customs of the North, like honouring the guest right, his worship of the Old Gods, "the man who passes the sentence must swing the sword"(as evidenced with Janos Slynt), the moral aversion to incest, and possibly his connection with Ghost as a warg.

[FrozenFire3]

"Your stableboy can stay with the horses."

"I'm a squire not a stableboy," Egg insisted. "Are you blind, or only stupid?"

She might mistake him [Jon] for a stableboy and hand him the reins of her horse.

Another connection between Jon and his great-great-grandfather, Aegon V "Egg" Targaryen

I love the additions FrozenFire3

Telepathy. I made a little research on the use of the word 'sullen' throughout the saga. The first thing that jumps to the eye is the frequent association of this adjective with the light/blaze/glare of fire, embers and heat. Countless examples. I'd highlight the following ones:

An ornate brazier stood to one side, fashioned in the shape of a dragon's head. The coals in the beast's yawning mouth had burnt down to embers, but they still glowed with a sullen orange light.

They found only darkness, dust, and rats. And dragons, lurking down below. He remembered the sullen orange glow of the coals in the iron dragon's mouth [...] On the floor he'd found a scuffed mosaic of the three-headed dragon of House Targaryen done in tiles of black and red. I know you, Kingslayer, the beast seemed to be saying. I have been here all the time, waiting for you to come to me. And it seemed to Jamie that he knew that voice, the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone.

The pattern sullen --> orange --> fire --> dragons --> Targaryens is indeed recurrent (on a side note, the last passage is followed by the memory of Jamie's farewell to Rhaegar, in which the Prince is wearing his night-black armor. Night and black: enough said).

Another frequent association is sullen/Jon, as in our sullen bastard ;)

The bastard was a sullen boy, quick to sense a slight, jealous of Theon's high birth and Robb's regard for him.

Jon drew Longclaw from its sheat. Rain washed the steel, and the firelight traced a sullen orange line along the edge.

Dear ol' colour orange popping up again, in all its fiery regality. But there is more:

I danced with you and your brother both. You were sullen [...] You're still a little sullen.

And here we come to our telepathy. Dunk&Egg:

Yet as he headed down the road he could feel the stableboy watching his back, sullen and silent. [...] Egg made a sullen face, but did as he was bid [...] Are you angry that I did not take your part against Ser Bennis yesterday?” he asked his sullen squire, as they made for the next village [...] You will stay and help Bennis with the smallfolk,” he told Egg. “And don't give me that sullen look.” [...] Egg flushed, and for half a heartbeat, Dunk feared the boy might talk back. Instead he settled for a sullen look, seething as only a boy of eleven years can seethe.

Quite the sullen lot these (half)Targaryens :lol:

Links to previous analyses are aplenty btw, particularly in Jamie's passage. There we meet again an 'iron dragon' which reminds me of the rusty iron dragon washing up on the Quiet Isle. The iron tones of Rhaegar's voice are also linked to some of Jon's inner musings. Last but not least, the mention of the color orange, previously associated to Rhaegar, Jon and a shadow half-seen (dragons lurking?). Interesting the use of the word beast as synonym of dragon btw... We started with a sullen disposition and ended up in a fiery tangle of Jon/Targaryens symbolisms.

[Arya kiddin']

Telepathy. I made a little research on the use of the word 'sullen' throughout the saga. The first thing that jumps to the eye is the frequent association of this adjective with the light/blaze/glare of fire, embers and heat. Countless examples. I'd highlight the following ones:

orange light.

orange glow of the coals in the iron dragon's mouth [...] On the floor he'd found a scuffed mosaic of the three-headed dragon of House Targaryen done in tiles of black and red. I know you, Kingslayer, the beast seemed to be saying. I have been here all the time, waiting for you to come to me. And it seemed to Jamie that he knew that voice, the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone.

The pattern sullen --> orange --> fire --> dragons --> Targaryens is indeed recurrent (on a side note, the last passage is followed by the memory of Jamie's farewell to Rhaegar, in which the Prince is wearing his night-black armor. Night and black: enough said).

Another frequent association is sullen/Jon, as in our sullen bastard ;)

orange line along the edge.

Dear ol' colour orange popping up again, in all its fiery regality. But there is more:

And here we come to our telepathy. Dunk&Egg:

Quite the sullen lot these (half)Targaryen :lol:

Links to previous analyses are aplenty btw, particulalry in Jamie's passage. There we meet again an 'iron dragon' which reminds me of the rusty iron dragon washing up on the Quiet Isle. The iron tones of Rhaegar's voice are also linked to some of Jon's inner musings. Last but not least, the mention of the color orange, previously associated to Rhaegar, Jon and a shadow half-seen (dragons lurking?). Interesting the use of the word beast as synonym of dragon btw... We started with a sullen disposition and ended up in a fiery tangle of Jon/Targaryens symbolisms.

This one is quite convincing. God forbid this guy gives us another Summerhall. :lol: What is it building upto though - Brienne as Kingsguard, seeing she is the quite direct replacement of Ser Dunk in this series? Food for thought at least.