Why does the NW goes so horribly down under Targaryens rule?

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

It might be that the Wildlings caught a few glimpses of the Targaryen Dragons when Jahaerys and Alysanne came to the Wall. This might have been enough to reduce their aggression, as I believe they would not like the Targaryens to come after them.
This meant that the NW required fewer recruits, as the fear of the Dragons held the Wildlings at bay already. Likely they stopped putting much effort into their PR, and this is why disdain for the NW became so common.

[Nictarion]

Aemon is sworn to the order of Maesters. He is not a black brother . Thats why Jon can send him back to oldtown. Thats just my point.

He also sent Sam and Daeron. Yoren, Thorne, and Benjin all leave for various reasons as well. Aemon is absolutely a sworn member of the NW.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

I remember the chapter. In fact, its the same chapter when he tell Jon the NW had 10k warriors in Aegons time, and that Harrions brother didnt make a move when he learned about his brothers fafe.

Aemon is sworn to the order of Maesters. He is not a black brother . Thats why Jon can send him back to oldtown. Thats just my point.

Yoren leaves the wall

Samwell leaves the wall.......

Damn ninja'd

[PrimeRhaegar]

well less wars and there was a system when people could be pardoned now instead of choosing the wall so that would make them receive less recruits. Most noble 3rd or 4th born sons now dream of the KG instead of the knight's watch. Plus with a united westeros no one cared about an ancient order that dealt with things that people don't believe in anymore, and no kingdom takes the wildlings seriously.

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

It might be that the Wildlings caught a few glimpses of the Targaryen Dragons when Jahaerys and Alysanne came to the Wall. This might have been enough to reduce their aggression, as I believe they would not like the Targaryens to come after them.

This meant that the NW required fewer recruits, as the fear of the Dragons held the Wildlings at bay already. Likely they stopped putting much effort into their PR, and this is why disdain for the NW became so common.

Battle of Long Lake is later than this, and we are talking about a full invasion enought to get the Lord of Winterfell killled in action.

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

He also sent Sam and Daeron. Yoren, Thorne, and Benjin all leave for various reasons as well. Aemon is absolutely a sworn member of the NW.

He cannot vote, nor interfer in the elections, being a "black brothers" issue...thats what he tells sam...Im not so sure he is a brother. I think he is a maester, sworn to the order, and serving in Castle Black.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Battle of Long Lake is later than this, and we are talking about a full invasion enought to get the Lord of Winterfell killled in action.

I hoped that it has taken place either before the arrival of the Targs or after their Dragons disappeared. If it happened in the period of the Targ Dragons being a force to be reckoned with, then I have no idea...

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

I hoped that this had taken place either before the arrival of the Targs or after their Dragons disappeared. If it happened in the period of the Targ Dragons being a force to be reckoned with, then I have no idea...

Since it was "Lord" Stark, its definitly after AL...but wiki says 184 ...so you are covered.

[Nictarion]

He cannot vote, nor interfer in the elections, being a "black brothers" issue...thats what he tells sam...Im not so sure he is a brother. I think he is a maester, sworn to the order, and serving in Castle Black.

He's a sworn member, he said the vows.

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

He's a sworn member, he said the vows.

I know. But what "vowes" is the question. Maestres do their own vowes "to serve the realm, dont ve a surname " and whatever.

[RoamingRonin]

I know. But what "vowes" is the question. Maestres do their own vowes "to serve the realm, dont ve a surname " and whatever.

He is a sworn brother of the NW. He swore the NW's vows. He became a black brother to remove himself from the line of succession. NW members hold no titles, take no wives... etc.

[Iona]

I remember the chapter. In fact, its the same chapter when he tell Jon the NW had 10k warriors in Aegons time, and that Harrions brother didnt make a move when he learned about his brothers fafe.

Aemon is sworn to the order of Maesters. He is not a black brother . Thats why Jon can send him back to oldtown. Thats just my point.

The whole point of Aemon going to the Wall was to take the black, to enforce the fact that he cannot be involved in the matters of state, evah. He didn't feel his first vow as a maester was enough, so he doubled the bets and joined NW as well. Pulled a few quotes from AGOT so it's just not me wagging my tongue. :)

“It means I shall think on what you have said,” the maester told him firmly. “And now, I believe I am ready to sleep. Chett, show our young brother to the door.”

*****

That did not sound right to Jon, yet he said nothing. The maester was a hundred years old, and a high officer of the Night’s Watch; it was not his place to contradict him.

*****

“Who are you?” he asked quietly, almost in dread.

A toothless smile quivered on the ancient lips. “Only a maester of the Citadel, bound in service to Castle Black and the Night’s Watch.

[Señor de la Tormenta 2]

The whole point of Aemon going to the Wall was to take the black, to enforce the fact that he cannot be involved in the matters of state, evah. He didn't feel his first vow as a maester was enough, so he doubled the bets and joined NW as well. Pulled a few quotes from AGOT so it's just not me wagging my tongue. :)

It means I shall think on what you have said, the maester told him firmly. And now, I believe I am ready to sleep. Chett, show our young brother to the door.

*****

That did not sound right to Jon, yet he said nothing. The maester was a hundred years old, and a high officer of the Nights Watch; it was not his place to contradict him.

*****

Who are you? he asked quietly, almost in dread.

A toothless smile quivered on the ancient lips. Only a maester of the Citadel, bound in service to Castle Black and the Nights Watch.

Yeh. I cant fight the first two ones, so I retreat. He is a black brother

[complexphoenix]

I'm pretty sure GRRM said somewhere that Aemon is "dual sworn" to the Maesters and the Watch. Maybe his dual swearing is the reason he can't vote in the LC election? I doubt the vows conflict much (both involve swearing to serve and be celibate) but he's probably under more total restrictions than either a regular Maester or a regular Watchman.

[dragonsrule]

I think it is a combination of factors

1) fewer wars as people have said

2) political power shifted south and even the Northern houses started paying more attention to what was going on KL than around the wall.

3) Exile became a more attractive option for political dissidents. Before, if a Stark king exiled someone from his lands, he would just go join the King of the Vale in fighting against the Starks. Much better send him to the wall. Now that person could be exiled from all Westeros to Essos where the rulers have no interest in supporting him in fighting the Starks.

[complexphoenix]

The death of dragons may also be a factor. I read somewhere on the wiki that after the dragons died out, the winters got longer and colder. This would have shortened the life expectancy of the average Watchman, and reduced the wealth and population of the North while also reducing the fertility of the Gift.

[Veltigar]

Sleepy Jack and the Targaryens killed them.

1) Targaryens unified Westeros. This ended the frequent border struggles and other wars between the Kingdoms, which lead to a decline in POW who would be forced into service.

2) By unifying the Realm, the Targaryen created a better climate for business. Westeros is now a richer place and people from everywhere now have more choices available. This especially inpacted Northern recruits imo. In the days of old many members or the Mountain Clans would probably join the Wall in case of a shortage of food. Now they can venture south to make their fortune. The same thing is probably also applicable to a lesser extent on the southerners. Since food could be imported from the Reach and the Riverlands other places in Westeros wouldn't be as vunerable to famine, and one of the biggest selling points of the NW was that it kept it's people properly fed and clothed at all times.

3) Jaeherys I and the Good Queen Alyssane accidentally hastened the decline of the NW even further. The NW was already in decline when they came to the North. They probably thought that expanding the NW lands would help them to get back on their feet but it actually backfired.

Instead of getting an extra source of income, the NW gained a huge stretch of land that it had to protect from raiding Wildlings. But they didn't have the men to do that, so they had to spread their forces out to thin. Wildling raiders took advantage of that and the NW was unable to stop them.

I imagine that the people who lived in the New Gift and Brandon's gift left in great numbers because the NW was unable to protect them. That way the NW lost a lot of income and probably one of their major recruiting pools in the 7 Kingdoms.

4) The only thing that kept the battered NW after that was their prestige and honor. They probably lost a lot of that after Sleepy Jack's shameful performance during the invasion of Raymun Redbeard. And Artos Stark, the new Lord of WF, wasn't called the Implacible for nothing. There was probably quite a tense relation to the NW for some time.

The Starks and the NW made up eventually, but I believe many Houses of Andal origin would not forget Sleepy Jack shameful performance.

[Jasta11]

It's possible that the Watch was not used to dump political exiles beforehand. That many saw it as a valid calling instead of a bunch of cutpurses freezing their asses up north. I mean, the Lord Commander was the brother of Harren the Black, a powerful Ironmen king. He might have been sent because he was inconvenient (in which case he wouldn't want to come to his brother's aid even if he had a million soldiers anyway). Or he might have wanted to go like Benjen did. And if nobles want to go serve the Watch, they are probably much more eager to send actual soldiers there instead of the pick of the dungeons.

Then the Targs rise to power, and one of them decides the Watch is a convenient place to send inconvenient people. Suddendly, it's no longer a higher calling, but fantasy Siberia, and apart from the Northmen nobody wants to go there and face that kind of stigma, hence the sharp drop in numbers because the Northmen aren't that numerous. I dunno, can't prove this, just a theory.

Or it could be Aemon exagerated the Night Watch's strength to make it seem more dramatic. But it seems at odds with his ''wise old master'' persona.

Or we could take a Watsonian PoV and say the Watch being weak is much more dramatic than a 10 000 strong badass army that steamroll Mance's forces and stands ready to face the Others.

[Veltigar]

It's possible that the Watch was not used to dump political exiles beforehand. That many saw it as a valid calling instead of a bunch of cutpurses freezing their asses up north. I mean, the Lord Commander was the brother of Harren the Black, a powerful Ironmen king. He might have been sent because he was inconvenient (in which case he wouldn't want to come to his brother's aid even if he had a million soldiers anyway). Or he might have wanted to go like Benjen did. And if nobles want to go serve the Watch, they are probably much more eager to send actual soldiers there instead of the pick of the dungeons.

Then the Targs rise to power, and one of them decides the Watch is a convenient place to send inconvenient people. Suddendly, it's no longer a higher calling, but fantasy Siberia, and apart from the Northmen nobody wants to go there and face that kind of stigma, hence the sharp drop in numbers because the Northmen aren't that numerous. I dunno, can't prove this, just a theory.

Or it could be Aemon exagerated the Night Watch's strength to make it seem more dramatic. But it seems at odds with his ''wise old master'' persona.

Or we could take a Watsonian PoV and say the Watch being weak is much more dramatic than a 10 000 strong badass army that steamroll Mance's forces and stands ready to face the Others.

Sadly, you are wrong. The Watch has always been a place for political exiles. When Nymeria and Mors Martell conquered the rest of Dorne they sent 6 Kings in Golden chains to the Wall and that was way before the Targaryens set foot in Westeros.

[Bronn Urgandy]

Fewer wars?