Was Ned Really That Bad of a Catch for Ashara Dayne

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

Rickard could have just married Benjen off to some Northern lord, he didn't exactly need Ned to marry a Northerner. The other Lords wouldn't have rebelled at the decision they would have just knuckled under and dealt with it.

[Ser Lepus]

Ned was way too good for Ashara, who wasn't even a heiress. Ned was second in line after Brandon, so he was an awesome catch; Brandon could have choked with a slice of pie, have had a bad fall from his horse, have had a tourney accident or have caught a nasty flu...and BAM! Ned is heir to Winterfell!.

Ashara's family would have been delighted to marry her to Ned, but it has been said that Ashara's wasn't Ned's beloved, but Brandon's lover, and Brandon was already betrothed to Cat.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

Ned was way too good for Ashara, who wasn't even a heiress. Ned was second in line after Brandon, so he was an awesome catch; Brandon could have choked with a slice of pie, have had a bad fall from his horse, have had a tourney accident or have caught a nasty flu...and BAM! Ned is heir to Winterfell!.

Ashara's family would have been delighted to marry her to Ned, but it has been said that Ashara's wasn't Ned's beloved, but Brandon's lover, and Brandon was already betrothed to Cat.

it was also said that Ned was her lover as well, we don't no for sure. With everything we know about Ned and Brandon's personalities the evidence points towards Brandon. Which is why I think it was Ned. Unless it was Howland Reed (which I hope is true) then I want it to be Ned who "dishonored" her.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Ned was way too good for Ashara, who wasn't even a heiress. Ned was second in line after Brandon, so he was an awesome catch; Brandon could have choked with a slice of pie, have had a bad fall from his horse, have had a tourney accident or have caught a nasty flu...and BAM! Ned is heir to Winterfell!.

Ashara's family would have been delighted to marry her to Ned, but it has been said that Ashara's wasn't Ned's beloved, but Brandon's lover, and Brandon was already betrothed to Cat.

Yeah, I think it's important to point out that everything suggesting that Ned and Ashara were in love comes from other people. It does not ever come from Ned's own mind. If I recall, he doesn't think of her once, not even when Cersei brings her up.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Ned was way too good for Ashara, who wasn't even a heiress. Ned was second in line after Brandon, so he was an awesome catch; Brandon could have choked with a slice of pie, have had a bad fall from his horse, have had a tourney accident or have caught a nasty flu...and BAM! Ned is heir to Winterfell!.

Ashara's family would have been delighted to marry her to Ned, but it has been said that Ashara's wasn't Ned's beloved, but Brandon's lover, and Brandon was already betrothed to Cat.

Most second sons don't even get heiresses. They get daughters of bannerman so that isn't even the case. Ned's an awesome catch for a bannerman's daughter, but not for the woman who is considered one of the most beautiful women in Westeros who is the lady-in-waiting to the future Queen and sister to the best friend of the King and one of the noblest knights. She really could get a powerful Lord in his own right. Her own little sister was bethrothed to Beric Dondorrian, Lord of Blackhaven in his own right. So I don't know if Ashara's family would be delighted to marry her to Ned, the second son when they can find an actual heir for her.

This isn't about being mean to Ned or about him, but Ashara really could do better than him when you look at it if it was for that pregnancy.

The fact that you need to kill off members of his family for Ned to be heir to Winterfell is just ridiculous. I don't think people decide on betrothals based on the fact that he or she could die especially in a case like the Brandon who would have lived if he hadn't been executed.

The Ashara match was probably never even thought about. If she was Brandon's lover, would she really want to marry his little brother?

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

I think he just paled in comparison to Brandon. Sometimes you never have a shot no matter how great you are because the person standing next to you is so damn good looking and charismatic.

[Ser Lepus]

Most second sons don't even get heiresses. They get daughters of bannerman so that isn't even the case. Ned's an awesome catch for a bannerman's daughter, but not for the woman who is considered one of the most beautiful women in Westeros who is the lady-in-waiting to the future Queen and sister to the best friend of the King and one of the noblest knights. She really could get a powerful Lord in his own right. Her own little sister was bethrothed to Beric Dondorrian, Lord of Blackhaven in his own right. So I don't know if Ashara's family would be delighted to marry her to Ned, the second son when they can find an actual heir for her.

Heirs to great or middle level lords are a scarce resource, and the parents of said heirs would base their choice of wife for their sons on many economic and political factors, so there is no guarantee that there was any desirable heir available. Ned was the second son of a great lord, the second best thing.

They were both younger siblings of heirs, but Ned's family was a couple steps above Ashara's in power and prestige. If Lord Rickard had chosen a dornish wife for his son, he would have tried to hook him to a heiress too. Ashara would have been the third best thing (after a heiress or the daughter of a great lord)from Lord Rickard's point of view.

About connections, Ned had many juicy connections of his own: Son of the Lord of the North and brother to the future Lord of the North, forster son Lord Jon Arryn, foster brother to Robert Baratheon, brother in law to the future Lord Tully...etc.

The fact that you need to kill off members of his family for Ned to be heir to Winterfell is just ridiculous. I don't think people decide on betrothals based on the fact that he or she could die especially in a case like the Brandon who would have lived if he hadn't been executed.

Medieval people tended to die young, often without issue. Even if Brandon married, his wife could lose all her babies.

The potential access of a noble man or woman to a throne or great lordship was taken into account when choosing spouses.

The Ashara match was probably never even thought about. If she was Brandon's lover, would she really want to marry his little brother?

That was kind of my point. If Ned and Ashara had loved each other, their families would probably have accepted it and arranged a marriage, but Ashara and Ned weren't lovers.

[grand old duke of stark]

Ned was way too good for Ashara, who wasn't even a heiress. Ned was second in line after Brandon, so he was an awesome catch; Brandon could have choked with a slice of pie, have had a bad fall from his horse, have had a tourney accident or have caught a nasty flu...and BAM! Ned is heir to Winterfell!.

Ashara's family would have been delighted to marry her to Ned, but it has been said that Ashara's wasn't Ned's beloved, but Brandon's lover, and Brandon was already betrothed to Cat.

Even as second son of a Lord Paramount, with his powerful Southron friends Ned would go far probably. Most importantly, Brandon was a hothead, the reckless 'wild wolf', which practically meant that he had a death wish. (In the event, he did bring his death on himself...and much of the kingdom.) Maybe Ashara's family had already realised that. More importantly, Brandon was the 'love 'em and leave 'em' sort of bloke, which her family almost certainly could conclude. And he was betrothed to Catelyn Tully, daughter of a Lord Paramount, which means nothing good could come of any relationship with Ashara.

So if Ned and Ashara liked/loved each other, it was a good arrangement politically for the Dayne. And even if Ned liked Ashara but she was indifferent, it might still have functioned as a good political marriage.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

Heirs to great or middle level lords are a scarce resource, and the parents of said heirs would base their choice of wife for their sons on many economic and political factors, so there is no guarantee that there was any desirable heir available. Ned was the second son of a great lord, the second best thing.

They were both younger siblings of heirs, but Ned's family was a couple steps above Ashara's in power and prestige. If Lord Rickard had chosen a dornish wife for his son, he would have tried to hook him to a heiress too. Ashara would have been the third best thing (after a heiress or the daughter of a great lord)from Lord Rickard's point of view.

About connections, Ned had many juicy connections of his own: Son of the Lord of the North and brother to the future Lord of the North, forster son Lord Jon Arryn, foster brother to Robert Baratheon, brother in law to the future Lord Tully...etc.

Medieval people tended to die young, often without issue. Even if Brandon married, his wife could lose all her babies.

The potential access of a noble man or woman to a throne or great lordship was taken into account when choosing spouses.

That was kind of my point. If Ned and Ashara had loved each other, their families would probably have accepted it and arranged a marriage, but Ashara and Ned weren't lovers.

WE DONT KNOW FOR SURE WHO ASHARA'S LOVER WAS! It could have been Brandon, Ned, or even Howland Reed. I don't see Howland+Ashara being true (I hope it is but I doubt it) so that just leaves 2 choices and both with reasonable cause.

[Pod The Impaler]

The Ashara match was probably never even thought about. If she was Brandon's lover, would she really want to marry his little brother?

WE DONT KNOW FOR SURE WHO ASHARA'S LOVER WAS! It could have been Brandon, Ned, or even Howland Reed. I don't see Howland+Ashara being true (I hope it is but I doubt it) so that just leaves 2 choices and both with reasonable cause.

People suggest she was, but it seems to me a poor interpetation of the text. If she had a lover at the tourney it was Ned. The signs point to it being Ned who "dishonoured" (slept with) her, a Stark who she sought solace in the arms of. At Harrenhal, shy Ned was pushed by his older and more experienced beother into dancing with a girl he had a thing for.

She "lost" that man but it does not say how, so I think that means when the man (Ned) was quickly married to another woman (Catelyn), in the aftermath of Brandon's death.

[CosimaistheHottest]

People suggest she was, but it seems to me a poor interpetation of the text. If she had a lover at the tourney it was Ned. The signs point to it being Ned who "dishonoured" (slept with) her, a Stark who she sought solace in the arms of. At Harrenhal, shy Ned was pushed by his older and more experienced beother into dancing with a girl he had a thing for.

She "lost" that man but it does not say how, so I think that means when the man (Ned) was quickly married to another woman (Catelyn), in the aftermath of Brandon's death.

What signs point to Ned? Maybe at first before we got Barristan's pov and Lady Dustin's talk. Now, it makes a lot more sense that Ashara was with Brandon. Even Barristan talks about fire vs mud and how young girls choose fire, it seems very much the case that Ashara would choose fire Brandon versus mud Ned.

Barristan seems to respect Ned at times so he probably wasn't the Stark that Barristan was talking about. Barristan seems a little bitter when he says Stark. I doubt he means Ned in this.

Not only that but it isn't only about Ned. Ashara has a say in who she has feelings for too. She may have been charmed by Brandon especially when he asked her to dance with his little brother because he was too shy. She may have thought it was sweet. I mean think about it shy Ned who would barely speak to the girl was able to sleep with her during one of those days at the tourney. I don't see it. Not only that but if honorable Ned did sleep with the girl, he would have most likely tried to marry her especially when she turned out to be pregnant.

Ashara jumped because she had basically lost everything that she felt was important to her. Her baby, her brother, presumably (her friend), and her lover. Everything seem to compound until she probably couldn't take it anymore.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

If she isn't married to Howland then I think she actually did kill herself after the only man she ever truly loved was married to another woman. I also think that when Ned returned Dawn to Starfall she may have tried to seduce/win him back and after her miscarriage and being in an especially fragile place she couldn't take Ned's denial of her advancements. And that eats at Ned every passing day and is why he hates it when Cat asked about her.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

What signs point to Ned? Maybe at first before we got Barristan's pov and Lady Dustin's talk. Now, it makes a lot more sense that Ashara was with Brandon. Even Barristan talks about fire vs mud and how young girls choose fire, it seems very much the case that Ashara would choose fire Brandon versus mud Ned.

Barristan seems to respect Ned at times so he probably wasn't the Stark that Barristan was talking about. Barristan seems a little bitter when he says Stark. I doubt he means Ned in this.

Not only that but it isn't only about Ned. Ashara has a say in who she has feelings for too. She may have been charmed by Brandon especially when he asked her to dance with his little brother because he was too shy. She may have thought it was sweet. I mean think about it shy Ned who would barely speak to the girl was able to sleep with her during one of those days at the tourney. I don't see it. Not only that but if honorable Ned did sleep with the girl, he would have most likely tried to marry her especially when she turned out to be pregnant.

Ashara jumped because she had basically lost everything that she felt was important to her. Her baby, her brother, presumably (her friend), and her lover. Everything seem to compound until she probably couldn't take it anymore.

I truly think it was Ned. For one we wouldn't expect it from him but he was young, second if we think about Ashara she could be annoyed by all the attention she gets from men. Think about it. Probably every single nobleman in Westeros would be after her or try and dance with her just so they could brag with how they danced with the most beautiful woman in the 7K. Guys approach her left and right ever so brazenly, and here is this guy too shy to talk to her, she might have been intrigued or wanted a change of pace. Then afterwards the shy Ned just sits back down or leaves. Maybe it was his bashful and distant nature that intrigued her. For all we know it could have been Ashara who initiated the whole fling.

[Akhôrahil]

Another problem is the sheer distance. Marriages are made for causes of Realpolitik, and it's hard to see any situations short of all-out civil war where Starfall and Winterfell could support each other in any major way. This isn't like the Riverrun alliance, which makes power-political sense.

[Darksnider05]

Another problem is the sheer distance. Marriages are made for causes of Realpolitik, and it's hard to see any situations short of all-out civil war where Starfall and Winterfell could support each other in any major way. This isn't like the Riverrun alliance, which makes power-political sense.

Not all of them and Ashara simply being in the North or Eddard being in the South is Realpolitik. Each person can influence what's going on in said region by simply being there.

With the weight of their families name or the weight of their spouses.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

I think he just paled in comparison to Brandon. Sometimes you never have a shot no matter how great you are because the person standing next to you is so damn good looking and charismatic.

i think Ashara saw through Brandon. She knew his type as she knew all the others of his type before him. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that she ignored his advances and focused on Ned.

[Ser Leftwich]

Have we ever learned how old Ashara was?

[ARYa_Nym]

I think Dorne typically ignores the North. It's like when it's propose that one of the Stark girls should have married one of Doran's sons. He's not going to go for that imo.

It's a very different climate and the way of life is a bit different so it may not seem appealing anyways to be up in North.

& then the basic thing that Barriston said. Ned is mud and she's not going to want that when she could have fire.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor Alt]

I think Dorne typically ignores the North. It's like when it's propose that one of the Stark girls should have married one of Doran's sons. He's not going to go for that imo.

It's a very different climate and the way of life is a bit different so it may not seem appealing anyways to be up in North.

& then the basic thing that Barriston said. Ned is mud and she's not going to want that when she could have fire.

I think she was sick of fire and just wanted someone different

[Roddy the Ruin]

Have we ever learned how old Ashara was?

i figure she may have been slightly older than Ned. Maybe around 21-23