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Was Ned Really That Bad of a Catch for Ashara Dayne


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To answer the basic question, no, Ashara was in no way out of Ned Stark's league politically. Of course, there are all sorts of other reasons why the match wouldn't have been likely to happen. Certainly, there wasn't much in the way of political advantage and then there's the vast distance between Dorne and the North along with the completely different lifestyle and culture.



But it could have happened. It wasn't impossible. It would have raised some eyebrows; people would have thought it curious for a Northerner to marry a Dornish noblewoman, but it wouldn't have been that big a deal.


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There are certainly stranger matches out there. Take the Greyjoy and Piper match and you have to wonder what brought that on. Prestige is just as good military and political alliances in some matches, in fact sometimes its all one can get out of it.


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Ahahaha! No.



|:[



Ned comes from freaking House Stark. That is the ruling House of the North. His poppa is Lord Paramount. Second son of House Stark? Still freaking viable. An ancient bloodline of Kings, guys. Come on. Ashara comes from House Dayne. Sure they have prominence, but they arent freaking Lord Paramounts. An unequal marriage would have been Ned and someone like Cersei. (Pre-Brandon Death that is)



The advantages of Ashara/Ned would have been both parties gaining rather impressive banner numbers. House Stark would have gained Dornish/Southern support. House Dayne would have been the bigger winner actually. Getting the support of the entirety of the North. Hypothetical: Ned marries Ashara. Brandon and Rickard die. Guess who's Lord Paramount? Ashara would have had all of Cat's advantages. Yeah....If anything, had that been a thing, Ashara would count her blessings.


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I always assumed Ashara and Ned were lovers. There was no other way for me to interpret that. I truly don't get the Brandon + Ashara theories.

Alot of people assumed that Ned and Ashara had a thing going on before the last book came out and we learned a little more.

Now for most people when you think about it, it makes a lot more sense if Brandon and Ashara were together rather than Ned and Ashara.

Here are some of the things that we know at first:

1. From Howland Reed TOH story, the Stark siblings journey to Harrenhall including Brandon Stark, the wild wolf and Ned Stark, the quiet or shy wolf.

2. Ashara is a beautiful young noblewoman and a lady in waiting to Princess Elia future Queen. She danced with alot of high ranking lords.

3. Ned wanted to dance with Ashara but was too shy to ask so instead Brandon Stark asks Ashara to dance with Ned.

4. Some people think that Ashara could be Jon's mother, but this isn't as valid of a theory as the Lyanna story.

5. Rumors Edric Dayne has from his Aunt Allyria about Ashara being in love with Ned. Also take into account that Allyria probably isn't that old and she may be getting secondhand information from servants who think Ned is the Stark that she loved because he visited her before she committed suicide.

This is what we get from Dance of Dragons.

1. Brandon Stark was what would be considered a ladies man. He had sex with at least one highborn girl that we know of. Courtesy of Lady Dustin.

2. Barristan was in love with Ashara.

3. Ashara was "dishonored" at Harrenhall. So you are saying the shy guy who couldn't even ask her to dance had sex with her. Yeah, don't see that happening. Could be wrong though.

4. She had looked to a Stark, who Barristan thinks of bitterly. We know that he doesn't feel this way about Ned so Ned doesn't seem to be the Stark that she looked to.

5. fire vs mud and the desires of young girl . Ned is surely a man that would be considered mud.

6. She had a stillborn daughter.

7. Barristan wonders if she threw herself off the tower for the daughter or the lover that she lost.

People seem to think she lost Ned when he married Catelyn but looking back this doesn't make sense. Ashara most likely got pregnant at Harrenhall. Ned himself was a free man who could presumably marry a woman who was a suitable match for him. Ashara would be that woman. So why would he leave and go back to the Eyrie instead of marrying and insuring that his child with the woman he loves is trueborn. Especially if Robb supposedly makes the same mistake that Ned would have made regarding Jeyne.

More than likely, it was Brandon Stark who fathered Ashara's child and who she may have been in love with. Brandon is regarded as handsome and wild compared to Ned. Brandon is the Stark that Barristan is bitter about unlike Ned. He has slept with Barbrey Dustin but didn't marry her. He himself was the first to talk to Ashara and asked her to dance with his little brother. Ashara may have been pleasantly surprised that Brandon would do something like that for his little brother. She thought he was caring so she gives herself to him but finds out that he is betrothed to another or maybe he says he will find a way out of it. She gets pregnant and gets sent back to Starfall. Her baby dies and Brandon dies. A while after that her brother and her princess and her children die so she can't take it anymore and kills herself.

Back to topic: I don't think anyone says that Ned is a bad catch. Some people say that she could find herself a lord. The fact that people have to kill Brandon to give Ned a chance is absolutely ridiculous. Because in this scenario, Brandon would still be alive. Not only that but Ashara also got knocked up out of wedlock her matches would severely be decreased that even Ned wouldn't be able to get her. Not only that but Dorne and the North are on opposite ends of a continent. The North would have to go through all this enemy territory. The same as the Dornishmen just to help each other out.

Whose to say that Ashara would want to marry Ned? She might have actually been in love with Brandon.

Ned's a good guy, but he isn't the end all be all. When the future books come out we will find out even more especially about Ashara. It really won't be surprising if we find out that she really was Brandon's lover at least not to me.

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plus Ned came with ALOT of powerful political connections. I also had a thought that Ned would live in Storm's End with Robert and Lyanna.

Robert and Lyanna? She rejected that emphatically in favor of Rhaegar. Bear in mind that if Lyanna had survived birthing Jon, then she would probably have gone to the Free Cities to raise her son. If she, on the other hand, had been dragged off to the Red Keep, Robert was probably a dead man walking. All of his fantasies about Lyanna would have disappeared in the moment it took her to put a knife in his heart.

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Robert and Lyanna? She rejected that emphatically in favor of Rhaegar. Bear in mind that if Lyanna had survived birthing Jon, then she would probably have gone to the Free Cities to raise her son. If she, on the other hand, had been dragged off to the Red Keep, Robert was probably a dead man walking. All of his fantasies about Lyanna would have disappeared in the moment it took her to put a knife in his heart.

Yea. I doubt Robert would have actually wanted her after everything that happened too. I mean how many people would. Robert is delusional at times but he isn't that delusional. She was better off getting lost again if she really did run off.

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Robert and Lyanna? She rejected that emphatically in favor of Rhaegar. Bear in mind that if Lyanna had survived birthing Jon, then she would probably have gone to the Free Cities to raise her son. If she, on the other hand, had been dragged off to the Red Keep, Robert was probably a dead man walking. All of his fantasies about Lyanna would have disappeared in the moment it took her to put a knife in his heart.

i mean if Robert and Lyanna had gotten married and Rhaegar never kidnapped/ran away with her and RR never happened he would have gone with Lyanna and Robert to Storms End
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I was on another topic recently and I read that people felt Ashara was way out of Ned's league(politically) But was she really? I mean Ned was 2nd in line for the Lordship over a major house, best friends/borderline lover to The Lord of House Baratheon(another Great House), raised in the Vale by The Lord of House Arryn(another great house) befriending Vale lords along the way, and through his brother Brandon (House Tully) would align with him. Ned and Ashara IMO would be a great catch for House Dayne.

I think its not just politically that she was out of his league, it was more 'socially'. He's a shy second son, a beta always giving way to his elder brother alpha. She's the hot babe at the party that all the alpha guys are dancing with, beautiful handmaid to the crown princess, who's brother is best friends with the crown prince and a member of the esteemed KG, from a family more ancient, noble and 'special' than even most of the High lords.

Ned's a Stark sure, but as a second son he has no lands, no prosepects, nothing to support or pass on to his wife and kids. His whole life's purpose is to be a backup for another, until his brother has sons of his own, and then... nothing of his own.

Ned was way too good for Ashara, who wasn't even a heiress. Ned was second in line after Brandon, so he was an awesome catch; Brandon could have choked with a slice of pie, have had a bad fall from his horse, have had a tourney accident or have caught a nasty flu...and BAM! Ned is heir to Winterfell!.

Ashara's family would have been delighted to marry her to Ned, but it has been said that Ashara's wasn't Ned's beloved, but Brandon's lover, and Brandon was already betrothed to Cat.

I disagree totally. Most women aren't heiresses - indeed, being a heiress is what might have given her the freedom to pursue a marriage of choice rather than necessity. Not being a heiress means that she needs to marry someone who actually has something more than a name. Ned does not.

A lesser house might take the risk on a second son hoping the first son does have an accident. The Daynes though are as ancient and honourable as it gets - much more so than even most high lords, and they are extraordinarily well connected with the royal family to boot. Anything less than a ruling lord would surely be a lesser choice for Lord Dayne to be making for his daughter.

Have we ever learned how old Ashara was?

No. However we know that she was recently handmiad to Princess Elia. So she was selected to be a companion to a woman in her early twenties with a baby - something that points away from a Sansa-esque young maiden and towards someone a little more mature, perhaps. We also know that she was dancing with prime beef at Harrenhal, mostly 20+ except for the prodigy Viper of Dorne who at 16ish had already killed a man in a duel over their lover. We also know 18 year old Ned Stark was too shy to ask her to dance.

So my guess is around 18-22 at Harrenhal.

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Well, it's a bit of a mess. Her older brother (unnamed) had a son called Edric Dayne, born in 287, that is, well after Ashara's death, so he must have been alive and well until some time after that. Technically his heir before that time was Arthur Dayne, or Ashara if one discounts him on account of being a member of the Kingsguard.


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As a love match, Ned and Ashara would have been ok. Politically, it wouldn't have made much sense. If times were peaceful and they had nothing bothering their respective families, it would probably have been allowed, but the North always needs shoring up (marry Ned to a Manderly or a Dustin or a Ryswell or something) and Dorne is Dorne. With Targ looks, Ashara would be a much better match for a Martell second son, or, to make a peace, a Tyrell second son. But if both Houses were fertile and full of eligible people, I don't think it would have been impossible. Alas, shit intervened.

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As a love match, Ned and Ashara would have been ok. Politically, it wouldn't have made much sense. If times were peaceful and they had nothing bothering their respective families, it would probably have been allowed, but the North always needs shoring up (marry Ned to a Manderly or a Dustin or a Ryswell or something) and Dorne is Dorne. With Targ looks, Ashara would be a much better match for a Martell second son, or, to make a peace, a Tyrell second son. But if both Houses were fertile and full of eligible people, I don't think it would have been impossible. Alas, shit intervened.

What do targ looks have to do with anything. Love, romance, and looks don't have anything to do with noble marriages. Also with tension between Tyrell and Martell, a Dayne marriage to either is picking sides in a quarrel very close to them. In the event of a southern civil war of sorts, a marriage from another area is much more beneficial both to house Dayne and which ever side they chose. The North is loyal, a marriage to a minor northern house does nothing but cause envy in the other northern houses. It makes much more political sense than you credit it.

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How do we know Ashara wasn't an heiress?

We don't. We know she had more than one older brother (Arthur and Edric Dayne's father). Also, the grandfather of them (Ashara, Arthur, Allyria) may have still been the lord of the family at the time, which would have put Ashara, at most third, in line.

Though, the possibility of her being an heiress is interesting. But it would be heiress in the same theoretical way Ned would be heir, until her older sibling has children, in theory, during peacetime.

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@Skagosi High Chief-

The points you bring up are precisely what Targ looks have to do with it! Dorne gets to say, "Look, Tyrells, we've had some bad blood over the years, but why don't you marry your second son to the hottest woman in Dorne, who happens to have old Valyrian blood, and let's let bygones be bygones." Pretty good sales pitch, no? Also, Dornish houses don't flip sides the way the riverlanders do. Daynes are loyal to Sunspear. They would remain loyal to Sunspear even with a Tyrell marriage, and quite possibly get very rich in the process.

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@Skagosi High Chief-

The points you bring up are precisely what Targ looks have to do with it! Dorne gets to say, "Look, Tyrells, we've had some bad blood over the years, but why don't you marry your second son to the hottest woman in Dorne, who happens to have old Valyrian blood, and let's let bygones be bygones." Pretty good sales pitch, no? Also, Dornish houses don't flip sides the way the riverlanders do. Daynes are loyal to Sunspear. They would remain loyal to Sunspear even with a Tyrell marriage, and quite possibly get very rich in the process.

It would be a nice sales pitch, but I don't think the Dayne's have Valyrian blood... :(

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@Redshirt


Again you are placing very high value on looks in the political arena. The Tyrell's are rich and powerful with high ambition. A marriage to a minor house, allied with their enemy is not a sweet deal. The Tyrell's are looking to strengthen their position, that marriage would not accomplish that. A Martell marriage could lessen hostility, but neither want to do that, so they would look for either another powerful house, or make an alliance somewhere in the south with less allegiance to the Martell's.


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