Did Elia Cheat on Rhaegar?

[CosimaistheHottest]

where do u get that visenya died in dorne? as ive understood it she survived the war of conquest ;D

You mean Rhaenys died in Dorne. Martin did a TWOIAF spoiler at a reading if I am not mistaken. It later states Rhaenys died in Dorne with her dragon so obviously she went back later on after the Conquest. For what reason, we don't know. Maybe she was trying to conquer it to make up for her first failure and failed again but died this time.

[PrinceHenryris]

Lyanna could beat her brother (Benjen?) senseless "playing at swords". Not the training yard, but little kids swinging sticks at each other.

She was, according to Roose and Barbrey, Domeric's only rival as a rider.

If Rickard had supplied her with the proper equipment and training, she would've been a BAMF.

[ARYa_Nym]

She could beat her little brother. Who knows how old Benjen was in that flashback. If Bran wondered if it was him Benjen could have been 10 or under.

What would indicate that she was good was if she had the ability to beat Ned who was slightly better than average or Brandon who was the real swordsman. The former isn't likely and the latter is impossible.

[Sansa_Stark]

As I recall, doesn't the strength difference between boys and girls(irl) not skyrocket until puberty?

[Saint Saga]

Elia + Arthur Dayne=Darkstar.It's known.

[Bleiz]

To add another crack to the pot... what if...

Elia + Arthur = Aegon

:leaving:

[Ghost's Shadow]

Now that explains Aegon being at the ToJ (with Jon). Hightower brought him to his other daddy.

I don't know if I buy the theory that Arthur and Elia had a secret relationship, but it is wrong to think Elia was this innocent victim who didn't know anything and was 100% perfect. Elia might have known a lot more than what even we 'think' we know about Rhaegar and Lyanna, but as always it's just easier to judge than to keep an open mind.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Elia + Arthur Dayne=Darkstar.It's known.

It is known ;)

In which case, the answer to the OP is no. Elia and Arthur's relationship (the physical part) was well over before she wed Rhaegar, making them just ex-lovers in an awkward situation.

:rolleyes:

[Roddy the Ruin]

I can definitely see Elia maybe having an affair here and there. Maybe the reason we don't here of her reaction Rhaegar crowning Lyanna and running away with her was e cause Elia approved of it. She may have been unfaithful but it is said that Rhaegar and Elia were friends so it's not hard to assume she would want Rhaegar to be happy with his northern strange.

[Mladen]

I am sorry, but I don't like this...

Elia, for me, was more like Doran than Oberyn. I believe we will find something about her that will rock our world to the core. I once argued that she knew and supported Rhaegar's ideas about PTWP, and that she might be one of conspirators against Aerys and one of those that put Lyanna in ToJ. I mean, the connection between ToJ and Starfall can be interpreted not only on the Arthur's plain and his friendship with Rhaegar, but also on Ashara's and her friendship with Elia...

In which case, the answer to the OP is no. Elia and Arthur's relationship (the physical part) was well over before she wed Rhaegar, making them just ex-lovers in an awkward situation.

:rolleyes:

Have I missed something? They were lovers (said in appalling British voice :))?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I am sorry, but I don't like this...

Elia, for me, was more like Doran than Oberyn. I believe we will find something about her that will rock our world to the core. I once argued that she knew and supported Rhaegar's ideas about PTWP, and that she might be one of conspirators against Aerys and one of those that put Lyanna in ToJ. I mean, the connection between ToJ and Starfall can be interpreted not only on the Arthur's plain and his friendship with Rhaegar, but also on Ashara's and her friendship with Elia...

Have I missed something? They were lovers (said in appalling British voice :))?

My favourite crackpot, Mladen. E+A=DS ;)

There is actually a surprising amount of "evidence" that could support it :dunno:

[Mladen]

My favourite crackpot, Mladen. E+A=DS ;)

There is actually a surprising amount of "evidence" that could support it :dunno:

You know I have praised your idea as the best crackpot of the year? That should be your favorite crackpot :)

Well, I doubt it, but it is not the worst crackpot I have ever heard. All in all, possible, but highly unlikely.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

You know I have praised your idea as the best crackpot of the year? That should be your favorite crackpot :)

Well, I doubt it, but it is not the worst crackpot I have ever heard. All in all, possible, but highly unlikely.

awww :blushing:

Lem is one of my favourite theories, yes, but I am so convinced I no longer consider it crackpot :p

Maybe 2014 will be the year E+A=DS sees the light of day?

[Queen Alienor]

I've always been curious about Elia. All we hear about her is that she was frail, dornish, married to Rhaegar, gave birth to Rhaenys and Aegon what nearly killed her and was murdered in KL. We don't anything about her character. I wouldn't rule out her having an affair, maybe even with Arthur Dayne, but I think she would not risk anybody believing her children not to be Rhaegars, so probably at least the physical part wasn't prominent during her marriage, or only after Aegons birth. It's said that Elia and Rhaegar were friends, so maybe Rhaegar knew and was cool with it. It would add a whole new dynamic to the Lyanna/Rhaegar thing if maybe Elia thought it okay as long as it didn't endanger her children's claim.

[Mladen]

awww :blushing:

Lem is one of my favourite theories, yes, but I am so convinced I no longer consider it crackpot :P

Maybe 2014 will be the year E+A=DS sees the light of day?

It was indeed the best crackpot I have ever heard... And not it is a proper theory, yes... Ugly duckling has become white swan :)

So we shall see... To more theories and more brilliant crackpots :cheers:

[Mithras]

I agree with the notion that Rhaegar and Arthur were not as shining statues of knights as they were seen outside. I have a crackpot theory that, Rhaegar was suffering from bipolar disorder and was the father of Ashara's daughter. Arthur helped him in this and they together hurt Ashara's feelings. Ashara realized how horrible could even the truest knights be and accepted the marriage offer of Howland, who is far from being a knight but loves her and agrees to love her child as his own. Arthur and Elia affair fits well with this theory.

[Fire Eater]

Jousting is something more for leisure entertainment though. Like Rhaegar was skilled with it but when he was against a real warrior in battle for the first time he got crushed. Although we know he had some skill with a sword there's no such info with Lyanna.

Then as mentioned Elia and Rhaenys can't really be compared beyond the fact that they're both feminine.

That's why I was saying it's superficial.

You think Robert was the only person Rhaegar fought against in battle? He likely killed a few men before he reached Robert. Rhaegar was said to be on peer with Arthur Dayne, and Robert was badly wounded by him. Just because he lost to Robert, doesn't mean he was a bad warrior as there is always someone better as Barristan said.

As I said if someone like Naerys can be a parallel for someone like Cersei, than I think Rhaenys can be a parallel for Elia.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I'm not sure that the parallel to Aegon and his wives holds. Aegon preferred Rhaenys to Visenya, while it seems more likely that Rhaegar preferred Lyanna...

Regarding Dayne being the perfect knight, the Dragonknight was also supposed to have been the prime example of chivalry and he was rumoured to have had an affair with Naerys so perhaps you are right about... :dunno: Perhaps with more evidence I could be convinced.

[Sansa_Stark]

You think Robert was the only person Rhaegar fought against in battle? He likely killed a few men before he reached Robert. Rhaegar was said to be on peer with Arthur Dayne, and Robert was badly wounded by him. Just because he lost to Robert, doesn't mean he was a bad warrior as there is always someone better as Barristan said.

As I said if someone like Naerys can be a parallel for someone like Cersei, than I think Rhaenys can be a parallel for Elia.

Rhaegar was said to be a peer to Arthur Dayne by Viserys. That alone renders it extremely questionable.

The only somewhat credible comparison we've seen of Arthur's skill and Rhaegar's is that both are mentioned to be better than Loras by Cersei at jousting. Apparently Prince Rhaegar was a match for Arthur at Jousting according to Cersei.

Rhaegar was most likely a decent-great sword fighter, yes.

But not top tier.

I'm not even convinced Robert is as good as the hype.

[ARYa_Nym]

You think Robert was the only person Rhaegar fought against in battle? He likely killed a few men before he reached Robert. Rhaegar was said to be on peer with Arthur Dayne, and Robert was badly wounded by him. Just because he lost to Robert, doesn't mean he was a bad warrior as there is always someone better as Barristan said.

As I said if someone like Naerys can be a parallel for someone like Cersei, than I think Rhaenys can be a parallel for Elia.

Rhaegar was said to be on par with Arthur by who? GRRM won't even definitively say that Arthur and Barriston were on par. He said it depends on the weapons they have.

I didn't say he was a bad warrior. I said he was shown to have some skill with a sword unlike Lyanna but it's faulty to use jousting as a benchmark. Rhaegar may dominate in a tourney and still be crushed when he gets in a real battle against a real warrior. They are two different arenas.

With Naerys there is not even proof of an affair. The setup I'm saying of this parallel is faulty. Lyanna is not like Visenya. There's not enough information to say that Elia and Rhaenys parallel each other. Yeah they have connections with Dorne but for one it's positive and the other it's fatal.