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The sad tale of Janos Slynt; Westerosi elitism at its finest.


Bronn Urgandy

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Okay, maybe you misunderstood me because I only said one piece of my mind. I never said Tyrion didn't screw Janos over, and yes, Tyrion can be a snarky bastard as well. Point taken.



But MANY people were screwed over and sent to the wall unjustly. Slynt is not the only man this ever happened to.



Yet I still maintain my original comment, because I believe Janos is a giant turd of a man. And Tyrion was smart in getting rid of that man since he was so far up Cersei's ass. As a matter of fact, he did the same thing to Maester P. He threw him in the dungeons because he knew he was a pawn of his sister's. Can't be Hand with so many kiss asses around undermining you(especially men with authority).



Something else I just thought of when I said "Slynt is not the only man"....what happens to women who break laws? Automatic beheading/hanging? Or do they get sent to the Silent Sisters? If I were a woman I MIGHT rather be a whore or something than have my tongue cut out. Where do whores go again? :D


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What about Davos?He manages to keep his sense of honor and decency and was made into a knight before becoming hand of the king for Stannis. Perhaps they are simply mirrors for the other?

That's a good point. I think the fact that Stannis listens to Davos's counsel is supposed to be a sign of how Stannis really is different from a lot of other lords. It's the outward expression of his more meritocratic beliefs. I don't think someone like Davos, a practical, down to earth guy who shows loyalty by speaking the truth would have gotten as far with Joffrey or Robert as Slynt did by being a crony. Both of those kings were people who liked to be told what they wanted to hear more than they appreciated the value of hard truths. Look at how Robert swallowed Littlefinger's advice about Slynt—it was a bunch of crap but Robert bought it cause it was easier than doing something about the corruption. The rest of the nobility is basically dismissive of commoners altogether.

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That's a good point. I think the fact that Stannis listens to Davos's counsel is supposed to be a sign of how Stannis really is different from a lot of other lords. It's the outward expression of his more meritocratic beliefs.

But see, when we see Stannis heeding (sometimes) Davos' advice, he is not a commoner. He's one of his knights. Just like Clegane or Marbrand for Tywin (both have voice in Tywin's war councils). So, a nobleman. Of Stannis' own creation, but "lands and titles for services rendered" is the standard method of climbing the social ladder, hardly Stannis' unique and patented method.

Tyrion bouncing his ideas off Bronn would be a better example for a nobleman listening to a commoner.

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Janos surely is corrupt but thats not a reason for why we should hate him/enjoy his dealth. He is about as corrupt as say, the legislative branch of the US. Which is to say, corrupt but sorta workable. The reason i enjoyed his death, is that he messed with my main man Jon Snow. Death to all those who appose Jon Snow!!!


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Sorry I left this thread for so long, I was out having some Christmas festivities with my common born friends and family, dreaming up ways to rise up the social ladder. Alas, we lack the courage of Janos Slynt.

This x200. "About bloody time!" was my thought when I read that. Loved the nod by Stannis afterwards. I suppose this topic does show that there'll always be someone who'll defend the most spineless and treacherous of characters.

How can Janos Slynt be spineless, and how is remaining loyal to the Crown treacherous? Janos Slynt is bold, you have to be bold to rise like Janos Slynt.

Well that assumes that Lorch or Clegane never tried to seperate themselves for which we have no evidence. Should we just believe it because of what other characters may think of them? (Using reasoning similar to that which seems to exonerate Janos from taking bribes etc.).

Anyhow as you have seemingly conceded the point in terms of equating him with some of the most monstrous characters in the series I do not need to argue this further. The only qualification you provide is possibly comparing him to the Hound. But the Hound at least seems to be on a redemption arc of some sort. He has at least shown some signs of a compassionate core buried somewhere. That does not absolve him of course. But Janos has shown no signs of any such thing. Can we assume that there was much of this going on off-stage? We could but why should we? I may as well assume that Gregor cries himself to sleep every night remembering the events of the sack.

More seriously

By your reading, Janos is a loyal and honorable man who did his duty. He was effectively Eddard Stark minus high birth and appearance. His only sin was that he was born in a lower class. All his success is to be attributed to his own positive qualities (e.g. 'competence' or what not). All his failings are to be attributed to the negative attributes of others (e.g. their elitism and skewed opinions). That was the sole reason anyone ever thought he was corrupt etc. If this picture were true, there would be reason to entertain this theory. But where is the evidence that this is the sole reason?

I think Gregor proves time and time again that he genuinely doesn't care and perhaps even enjoys the atrocities he commits.

I have provided the evidence that evidence for my theory in this thread, with the OP. The only difference is, Eddard Stark fathered a bastard, where was the honour in that, I ask you?

If you're that desperate for a self made man role model in the books, why go for Slynt and not Davos Seaworth, a man who rose higher than Slynt and who did so by being courageous, moral and empathetic.

By smuggling? Ask Davos' sons about the Water Casks that he never mentioned to Stannis, they both complained about the Water Casks being made of pine and Davos says he'll bring it up with Stannis, yet he never does, so we can only assume Davos' sons went onto the Blackwater with inferior Water Casks, because Davos didn't want to risk his position for his family. I ask you, how honourable is Davos Seaworth really?

My point is that as an employee of the Crown, he is not entitled to Guest Rights. He's not a guest, he's an employee. Even if he's under the impression he's being asked to the Tower of the Hand as an informal meeting he's still going strictly because of his status as LC, therefore he's not some guest that's entitled to guest rights. And since no one, especially Tywin, calls it a breach of guest rights, I'm going with it isn't. Tyrion is appalled by Tywin's part in the RW, don't you think if what Tyrion did to Janos violated guest rights that Tywin would have called him on it.

Also, Rob wasn't an employee of Walder's, he was his King. Janos is Tyrion's employee, not a guest. Guest rights do not extend to employees, nor do they extend to those who live in the same place (like Stannis arresting Davos).

We can argue about this all day, all I know is Janos ate Tyrions bread and salt, which would make him a guest anywhere else. Clearly it doesn't apply to him because of his humble birth.

Well, two things.

Firstly, the whole point of this thread appears to make Janos Slynt sympathetic by pointing out while he did terrible things, it was the "only honourable course of action available to him" because of prejudices of the highborn, essentially admiring him for being between a rock and a hard place. I think pointing out that Davos managed to act honourably, and morally, and also rise is a strong counterpoint to the notion we should admire Janos, since he did it better. Davos proves Slynt isn't worth admiring.

Secondly, the OP discusses Davos heavily anyway, and ludicrously tries to suggest Stannis made Davos hand as a joke, so Davos has already been put in the mix for discussion anyway.

I've already discussed Davos Seaworth's questionable sense of honour, and its clearly a joke, have you not seen all the Stannis humour threads around here?

Janos Slynt is westerosi elitism. Janos is corrupt at his position every one knows but cannot do anything because the ruling class says so. Janos is so corrupt LF buys him w/o struggle to get rid of Ned, Know one can do anything because of the ruling class. Janos runs through the town taking out babies, Know one can do anything because of the ruling class. Janos said in the end he had freinds at court, The only problem was he was not in front of them this time amd it cost Janos his life.

Exactly, they sent him away to the back end of nowhere, away from all the alliances he had, then carefully placed Ned Starks bastard in a position to lop his head off, all because he dared to rise to high.

Dude wasn't any sort of good guy. He was corrupt and brutal and treacherous.

He did however do whatever it took to improve the lot of his family. His sons will be knights.

That in and of itself is a hella accomplishment.

At least you can accept that much, even Tyrion notes that Slynt pales and is overcome with fear at the thought of his children being hurt (Tyrion does vaguely threaten them) so if you cant admit anything else, you can at least admit that Janos Slynt is a family man.

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  • 8 months later...

From here Lord Janos continues to serve the Crown faithfully, when the King orders the head of the treasonous Lord Eddard to be lopped off, who steps up to the plate to put Lord Eddard into position? None other than jowly Janos Slynt. He continues to do his duty, despite abuse from Cersie because the war she helped to start is making the streets unruly, this obviously gets laid at the feet of Slynt, plainly because of his common birth, Slynt must now survive in a World where practically every highborn will be looking to bring him down.

...

From here we don't see much of Lord Janos, until he arrives at the Wall, and instantly names Jon Snow a traitor, to which he is more than entitled to do so, Jon Snow comes from traitors blood, is bastard born and we all know the treasonous nature of bastards and has been consorting with Wildlings, if Jon Snow were a true man, he'd be a dead man.

...

Lord Janos refused to take orders from the double dealing lying snake that was Jon Snow, at least thats how Lord Janos must've seen it. Thats forgetting that it was all an elaborate ruse crafted by Jon Snow, in order to get Lord Janos to refuse and so give him an excuse to execute this jumped up, upstart.

Gee, I wonder why the first thread was locked XD

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Janos Slynt does seem a great deal upjumped, and a bit of an arsehole, but I'm more interested in House Slynt. You know? I mean who was his wife, whats the name of his daughter, are his sons complete dumbasses and snark-a-lots?


I also like the names of his sons; Morros, Morgan-Morgan Freeman, Morgan Liddle=Badass. And Jothos,Joe Gatto, Baby Joe, MoFy. Danos- Aidan Turner, Manly Dan, GF. However Morros fricking sucks at the lists, Ser Balon almost killed him! I also think it interesting that even the upjumped Slynts have Noble Geneology. Frog faces


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Well, same issue I have with Ser Barristan, lf, varys etc. Robert's will was legit, Ned was in charge and never did claim the throne for himself. Slynt was bribed to murder the King's appointed protector of his "12" year old "son". No excuses for those who opposed and deposed Ned in the throne room.


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I blame Martin.



He makes Slynt ugly, gives him awkward mannerisms, and invites us to cheer both Tyrion and Jon for destroying him. The son of a butcher, which in other circumstances would have been a feel good story of genuine social mobility.



You're class traitors, the lot of you.


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I kind of wonder if the root of all of Slynt's self-image problems is that he had a girly name. I bet people called him "Jan" all his life. A good manly name like Steve might have helped him a bunch.



What if all of the anti-Slynt bias the nobles show isn't about his common birth at all? What if it's really about his name?


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I blame Martin.

He makes Slynt ugly, gives him awkward mannerisms, and invites us to cheer both Tyrion and Jon for destroying him. The son of a butcher, which in other circumstances would have been a feel good story of genuine social mobility.

You're class traitors, the lot of you.

Blame him for his issue with butchers. Mycah, Cleon... and the Slynt family. Seems, every butcher got himself butchered.

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I kind of wonder if the root of all of Slynt's self-image problems is that he had a girly name. I bet people called him "Jan" all his life. A good manly name like Steve might have helped him a bunch.

What if all of the anti-Slynt bias the nobles show isn't about his common birth at all? What if it's really about his name?

Just to make it more interesting: on my mother language, the Hungarian, the equivalent of the name John is János. And the equivalent of the name Alexander is Sándor. These give an additional kind of fun to the books when you read them in Hungarian translation, especially as it makes Jon Snow and Janos Slynt wearing versions of the same name :-)

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Janos Slynt died a craven's death His big mouth wrote a check that his stupid a** could not cash . Quickly forgetting Allar Deem swimming lesson; He could have conspired with Alister Thorne and Bowen Marsh waiting for Jon to do something stupid which he was bound to do then depose him, but not mr. class clown had to be insubordinate and it cost him his head and honor.


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