Catelyn's Sweeter Peace Terms

[Tywin Manderly]

"An offer of peace." Robb stood, longsword in hand. Grey Wind moved to his side. The hall grew hushed. "Tell the Queen Regent that if she meets my terms, I will sheath this sword, and make an end to the war between us."

(Spoiler tag is used to keep the text of this post short.)

In the back of the hall, Catelyn glimpsed the tall, gaunt figure of Lord Rickard Karstark shove through a rank of guards and out the door. No one else moved. Robb paid the disruption no mind. "Olyvar, the paper," he commanded. The squire took his longsword and handed up a rolled parchment.

Robb unrolled it. "First, the queen must release my sisters and provide them with transport by sea from King's Landing to White Harbor. It is to be understood that Sansa's betrothal to Joffrey Baratheon is at an end. When I receive word from my castellan that my sisters have returned unharmed to Winterfell, I will release the queen's cousins, the squire Willem Lannister and your brother Tion Frey, and give them safe escort to Casterly Rock or wheresoever she desires them delivered."

Catelyn Stark wished she could read the thoughts that hid behind each face, each furrowed brow and pair of tightened lips.

"Secondly, my lord father's bones will be returned to us, so he may rest beside his brother and sister in the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he would have wished. The remains of the men of his household guard who died in his service at King's Landing must also be returned."

Living men had gone south, and cold bones would return. Ned had the truth of it, she thought. His place was at Winterfell, he said as much, but would I hear him? No. Go, I told him, you must be Robert's Hand, for the good of our House, for the sake of our children . . . my doing, mine, no other . . .

"Third, my father's greatsword Ice will be delivered to my hand, here at Riverrun."

She watched her brother Ser Edmure Tully as he stood with his thumbs hooked over his swordbelt, his face as still as stone.

"Fourth, the queen will command her father Lord Tywin to release those knights and lords bannermen of mine that he took captive in the battle on the Green Fork of the Trident. Once he does so, I shall release my own captives taken in the Whispering Wood and the Battle of the Camps, save Jaime Lannister alone, who will remain my hostage for his father's good behavior."

She studied Theon Greyjoy's sly smile, wondering what it meant. That young man had a way of looking as though he knew some secret jest that only he was privy to; Catelyn had never liked it.

"Lastly, King Joffrey and the Queen Regent must renounce all claims to dominion over the north. Henceforth we are no part of their realm, but a free and independent kingdom, as of old. Our domain shall include all the Stark lands north

"More bloodshed will not bring your father back to us, or Lord Rickard's sons," Catelyn said. "An offer had to be made—though a wiser man might have offered sweeter terms."

What do you think Lady Catelyn had offered as her terms of peace to the Lannisters if King Robb had allowed her to do so?

[Lion of the West]

A trade of all hostages, a royal amnesty for all Northern lords and Riverlords and a formal relief from the duty to support king Joffrey with arms against his enemies?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

Probably the exact same terms minus the demand for independence.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Those terms don't sound at all unreasonable except for the independence. That would likely cause all other kingdoms to rebell eventually. Still if Cersei was smart she could have found a way to negotiate that. I'm positive there was something Robb would have accepted instead.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Those terms don't sound at all unreasonable except for the independence. That would likely cause all other kingdoms to rebell eventually.

I think this was the point. And the Tyrells were actually the only ones who didn't act as Robb predicted.

[Arya kiddin']

Mostly I believe exchanging Kingslayer for Sansa and Arya. The rest is pretty reasonable.

[Usrnmhsnomning]

Cat voices her opnion at least once that Robb should just bend the knee to the Iron Throne. She essentially wanted a return to the status quo, her daughters brought back alive, and to go back to Winterfell where the North can sit with almost nothing to do with anyone else for the rest of her life. I think she'd accept those terms even if it meant not getting Neds bones or Ice back.

Her "sweeter terms", in my opinion, was to go back to how things were just before the war sans Ned.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Bend the knee to Joffrey for a full pardon and her daughters back. No obligation to support Joffrey in person, but nothing officially or binding Joffrey's heirs. Kind of the deal the Dornish got after Robert's Rebellion.

[Winter's Knight]

Cat voices her opnion at least once that Robb should just bend the knee to the Iron Throne. She essentially wanted a return to the status quo, her daughters brought back alive, and to go back to Winterfell where the North can sit with almost nothing to do with anyone else for the rest of her life. I think she'd accept those terms even if it meant not getting Neds bones or Ice back.

Her "sweeter terms", in my opinion, was to go back to how things were just before the war sans Ned.

On the brink of winter, with the North and Riverlands standing alone, those are actually the best terms.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

The North and the Riverlands are easily half the realm. Losing them would be a disaster for the IT. We're downplaying Robb's strategic position just a little. It was more important to the IT that they stay in the realm than it was for the North and Riverlands to leave.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

The North and the Riverlands are easily half the realm. Losing them would be a disaster for the IT. We're downplaying Robb's strategic position just a little. It was more important to the IT that they stay in the realm than it was for the North and Riverlands to leave.

:agree:

If those two regions left, Dorne, the Iron Islands and the Vale would be gone before the next autumn. And the rest wouldn't stay long either.

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

more of gravy than of grave

From A Christmas Carol, it is singularily the best and most sensible quote in the entire novel.

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

:agree:

If those two regions left, Dorne, the Iron Islands and the Vale would be gone before the next autumn. And the rest wouldn't stay long either.

Is this not the exact thing Robb wanted? And all those regions were pretty much lost to the IT, only the Tyrells remained, and it would cost them nothing (aside from their over the top ambitions) to do the same.

And even the Tyrells remained only at the cost of Cersei and Joff's positions (/life). And the reason the Tyrells could allow themselves to plot with such "ferocity", was the shaky position of the IT in relation to the other realms.

Had Robb lived to see it, it would be much easier for him to make peace after this.

[Winter's Knight]

more of gravy than of grave

From A Christmas Carol, it is singularily the best and most sensible quote in the entire novel.

What?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Is this not the exact thing Robb wanted? And all those regions were pretty much lost to the IT, only the Tyrells remained, and it would cost them nothing (aside from their over the top ambitions) to do the same.

And even the Tyrells remained only at the cost of Cersei and Joff's positions (/life). And the reason the Tyrells could allow themselves to plot with such "ferocity", was the shaky position of the IT in relation to the other realms.

Had Robb lived to see it, it would be much easier for him to make peace after this.

Yes, pretty much. And it's the reason why Tyrion refused his offer. He knew that it was suicide to accept the North and Riverlands as independent.

[King of Vaes Tolorro]

Sorry, I just had to say that, I disagree with the themes of A Christmas Carol and anything Scrooge says to defy them is gold to me.

Now I will stop talking

[OnionAhaiReborn]

more of gravy than of grave

From A Christmas Carol, it is singularily the best and most sensible quote in the entire novel.

What?

lol, I think his comment was directed at me and my festive Scrooge avatar/A Christmas Carol title combo.

Sorry, I just had to say that, I disagree with the themes of A Christmas Carol and anything Scrooge says to defy them is gold to me.

Now I will stop talking

Uh oh, seems like someone's working on a ponderous chain of their own. Someone get this person a haunting! :P

[David Selig]

Yes, pretty much. And it's the reason why Tyrion refused his offer. He knew that it was suicide to accept the North and Riverlands as independent.

On the other hand, given the military situation at this point, accepting it looked to me much less of a suicide than refusing it. How were the Lannisters supposed to deal with Renly's huge army and The Stark-Tully alliance at the same time? Nobody could predict that Renly would be murdered by a shadow.

[Winter's Knight]

Sorry, I just had to say that, I disagree with the themes of A Christmas Carol and anything Scrooge says to defy them is gold to me.

Now I will stop talking

What, you have a problem with old geriatrics being forced to relive past trauma and being threatened with their own doom in order to convert them? :P

lol, I think his comment was directed at me and my festive Scrooge avatar/A Christmas Carol title combo.

Uh oh, seems like someone's working on a ponderous chain of their own. Someone get this person a haunting! :P

Ohhhh!

[Winter's Knight]

Disclaimer: I adore A Christmas Carol.