Heresy 86

[Black Crow]

Welcome to Heresy 86, the first edition of 2014

As we’ve been running for over two years now and seem to have become a bit of an institution on the Westeros site, I thought that rather than the more or less standard introduction a New Year Message might be appropriate.

The Heresy thread began a long time ago in a galaxy not too far away by questioning certain basic assumptions; that the Others are evil personified and the ultimate threat to Westeros, that the Wall was built to keep them out, and that the Starks will defeat them.

Hence the Heresy tag.

None of those ideas were exactly new at the time, however Heresy pulled them together and this continues to be the case. What still makes Heresy so different and more vibrant and exciting than other threads is that while the theories discussed here have evolved and are often fiercely debated, in general we take a holistic approach. Rather than concentrate on a single issue in relative isolation, as do worshippers at the Church of R+L=J for example, we, as Heretics, enjoy a free-wheeling discussion ranging over a variety of issues. While for our part we certainly look at the white walkers in greater detail than on any other thread, we also look beyond to see how they relate, or might relate, to other aspects of the story. In short this thread is about the Song of Ice and Fire rather than any one facet of it.

So what have we actually achieved in Heresy over the last two years? It would be very easy to say that we’ve simply cracked a lot of pots, but I would argue we’ve done more than that. It is well known that the Game of Thrones is loosely based on the 15^th Century Wars of the Roses, with nods to other mediaeval conflicts such as the Scottish wars of Independence, but for our part we’ve identified some of the mythological sources underpinning the magic in the story; and particularly Norse and Celtic folk takes such as the Mabinogion. We’ve also looked at some of GRRM’s other work, including The Ice Dragon, in search of clues as to what’s going on and how this story might develop. Its unlikely of course that this will turn out to be The Ice Dragon writ large and its doubtful that the ending although equally bittersweet is going to be the same. Nevertheless these various sources do give us an invaluable insight into GRRM’s thinking and his treatment of these themes.

Similarly the HBO version provides equally valuable hints. It is, obviously, very different from the books in some respects, particularly as characters and incidents are omitted and merged. Yet by that very token what we do see is a stripped down version of the story concentrating on the essentials, as well as making explicit some things which were previously implied but uncertain and controversial. Series 4 is therefore eagerly awaited, not just for the ride but for the insights we can expect – and we’ve yet to see that storyboarded scene of the white walkers coming through a wall…

All in all, we can’t claim to know as much as we’d like to, far less definitively predict how this is all going to turn out, but I do think we can fairly claim that the ongoing discussion on these pages takes us far deeper into the story and into a far better understanding of the Song of Ice and Fire.

If you’re already actively involved in the Heresy business it needs no further introduction, but if you’re new to the game please don’t be intimidated by all those earlier threads. And if you’ve only just recently joined us here’s a link to Wolfmaid's essential guide to Heresy: http://asoiaf.wester...uide-to-heresy/ We’re very good at talking in circles. We’re also friendly and we don’t mind going over old ground again, especially with a fresh pair of eyes, so just ask.

Otherwise, all that we do ask of you as ever is that the debate be conducted by reference to the text, with respect for the ideas of others, and above all great good humour.

[Black Crow]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

[Urrax2]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

LOL. A good start to the new year's new thread.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

...This reminds me of a ritualistic exchange,even if they didn't know they were doing it they were playing the part of keeping that balance.'Nil shall be taken from the other realm less a price equal in value be paid" .

a man child of the human world in exchange for a man child from the fae.

Yes, I like this very much. It speaks of balance, which fits our recent conversations about magic - it also provides another layer to the changeling arc/motif connected with both Bran and Monster. Inasmuch as the movement of children is an exchange, it also echoes the 'bargain' made by Craster's wives with Sam - in which Sam receives the gillyflower as token payment for transporting Monster to the Black Gate.

[Yield.]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

[crackpot]

He is not dead, though he did scream a bit. Currently he is healing Sandor Clegane at the Quiet Isle and giving Brienne his lost rubies.

[/crackpot]

Edited to fix my grammar that seems to have been blown away with the blizzard we had here today.

[Forlorn Horpe]

I was thinking on the Westerosi Great House sigils. Most of them are totemic animals. The Starks of course have the direwolf, which is of the North, and from what we are uncovering, likely more than mere beasts. The Targaryens have their dragons, the basis of their power, whose magical significance could occupy another series of threads. The Greyjoys have the kraken, and like the kraken, their tentacles extend far. The Lannister lion is a bit more prosaic. Unlike the direwolf or dragon, there's nothing magical about it, lions are just indigenous to that part of Westeros. Interestingly, The Tyrells and Martells do not have animal sigils. The Tyrell rose is a down to earth, rather concrete image. I think there is something special about Dorne that hasn't been revealed. It is quite unlike anywhere else in Westeros except for the North. But again, their sigil is straightforward: Dorne is a hot country and the spear is a common weapon.

The sigil that's hardest to explain is the Baratheon stag. There's no obvious connection between Houses Baratheon or Durrendon and deer.

The deer is a common enough symbol in historical mythologies. It was frequent a motif in Scythian art (a Scythian princess at Pazyryk in Siberia had stags tattooed on her skin) and a guiding animal for the Huns. In classical and medieval bestiaries, the stag is lustful (obviously Robert, but not Stannis.)

In Norse mythology, Eikþyrnir the stag, stands in Valhalla. The stags Dáinn, Dvalinn, Duneyrr and Duraþrór gnaw at the great tree Yggdrasill.

The Celts believed stags could pass between worlds (Storms End is supposedly a magical and warded place.)

The most revealing use of the stag is through Cerunnos, the great horned God. Epigraphically, Cerunnos appears only once (on the Pillar of the Boatmen from Roman Gaul) and nothing else was recorded about him apart from the said inscription. I doubt even the anciebnt Celts could recall much. He is an extremely ancient god (see the sorcerer-stag of Trois-Frères from 13,000BC.) Cerunnos, lord of animals, is very similar in appearance to the Indian god Pashupati, particularly from the Mohenjo Daro seals. Cerunnos and Pashupati look extremely similar, both are horned gods, both are surrounded by animals, both even sit in the same pose. But they are from different cultures thousands of miles away.

---

Another thing that bugs me is the antler in the direwolf's throat at the very beginning of the series. Of course it's a useful macguffin for the Stark children to meet their lupine animas. Others have pointed out that the dead direwolf symbolized the suffering of House Stark at the hands Joffrey. But Joffrey is not a true Baratheon.

Is the true danger from Stannis another of Baratheon blood? He called for Robb Stark's death through Melisandre's blood magic, but while she may have foreseen the Young Wolf's death, I doubt she caused it. Even more important than Stannis himself is his ancestral home.

Even taking into consideration the Isle of Faces, Storm's End is one of the most magical places sout of the Wall. Spells have been woven into its walls and it may have been raised by Bran the Builder. Melisandre states that:

This Storm's End is an old place. There are spells woven into the stones. Dark walls that no shadow can pass – ancient, forgotten, yet still in place

Davos has to literally row her under its walls, whose protection is more than merely physical, before she can unleash her shadow assassin.

I suspect Storm's End is yet another otherworldly portal.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

It's not a direwolf, it's a hellhound, isn't it?. There is no reason to think they are the same.

Under the circumstances, I think I'd say it's "close enough."

...from the mythological examples above, a hell hound isn't simply a demonic dog. It's a guardian to a portal for another world or plane of existence. And the Stark direwolves strike me as pretty otherworldly.

Agreed.

Hellhound is usually associated with ... well, Hell. We usually associate Hell with fire. However, Ned said - or thought, I don't remember well- something about a frozen hell.

Also recall that in Dante's Inferno - the seminal literary depiction of the medieval Christian afterlife - Satan is described as a three-headed beast encased waist-deep in ice, the beat of whose wings only makes the ice colder as he seeks to fly free:

From CANTO XXXIV:

The Emperor of the kingdom dolorous
From his mid-breast forth issued from the ice;
And better with a giant I compare

Than do the giants with those arms of his;
Consider now how great must be that whole,
Which unto such a part conforms itself.

Were he as fair once, as he now is foul,
And lifted up his brow against his Maker,
Well may proceed from him all tribulation.

O, what a marvel it appeared to me,
When I beheld three faces on his head!
The one in front, and that vermilion was;

Two were the others, that were joined with this
Above the middle part of either shoulder,
And they were joined together at the crest;

And the right-hand one seemed 'twixt white and yellow;
The left was such to look upon as those
Who come from where the Nile falls valley-ward.

Underneath each came forth two mighty wings,
Such as befitting were so great a bird;
Sails of the sea I never saw so large.

No feathers had they, but as of a bat
Their fashion was; and he was waving them,
So that three winds proceeded forth therefrom.

[alienarea]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

Worth quoting in R+L=J :cheers:

[wolfmaid7]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

BC you crack me up

Yes, I like this very much. It speaks of balance, which fits our recent conversations about magic - it also provides another layer to the changeling arc/motif connected with both Bran and Monster. Inasmuch as the movement of children is an exchange, it also echoes the 'bargain' made by Craster's wives with Sam - in which Sam receives the gillyflower as token payment for transporting Monster to the Black Gate.

Yeah we see this theme reoccurring again. I found it interesting in the myths the emphasis on not mistreating the Changeling child and for some reason my mind goes to monster and his treatment at the Wall.It maybe a good thing Val is taking such good care.

I agree with you on the Direwolf/Hellhound similarities. There is definitely a connection that is drawn.Again i have to bring up cultural perspectives on this to those that insists they aren't the same thing.Its not about them being the same as it is perspective.

Lets say you're living in Valyria;lived there all your life and you had too much fire whisky one night at the Pub so you go out to take a little whizz in the back.Unbeknowst to you Jon and Ghost are visting from the North and Ghost is just taking a stroll.

Guy whizzing sees him and is like "holy frack",when he goes back to the Fire and Brimstone pub he's not going to tell tales of a huge Direwolf.He's not able to relate to a Northern termed animal ,he'll associate it with the closest thing from his cultural background,which is a hellhound.

I think though the whole idea of the Valyrians depicting various human and animal hybrid and knowing what the Sphinx illustrates its fair to say-from my point of view- that "skinchanging" is not synonymous with the North.

[Black Crow]

Worth quoting in R+L=J :cheers:

I'm waiting for the right moment

[alienarea]

I was thinking on the Westerosi Great House sigils. Most of them are totemic animals. The Starks of course have the direwolf, which is of the North, and from what we are uncovering, likely more than mere beasts. The Targaryens have their dragons, the basis of their power, whose magical significance could occupy another series of threads. The Greyjoys have the kraken, and like the kraken, their tentacles extend far. The Lannister lion is a bit more prosaic. Unlike the direwolf or dragon, there's nothing magical about it, lions are just indigenous to that part of Westeros. Interestingly, The Tyrells and Martells do not have animal sigils. The Tyrell rose is a down to earth, rather concrete image. I think there is something special about Dorne that hasn't been revealed. It is quite unlike anywhere else in Westeros except for the North. But again, their sigil is straightforward: Dorne is a hot country and the spear is a common weapon.

The sigil that's hardest to explain is the Baratheon stag. There's no obvious connection between Houses Baratheon or Durrendon and deer.

The deer is a common enough symbol in historical mythologies. It was frequent a motif in Scythian art (a Scythian princess at Pazyryk in Siberia had stags tattooed on her skin) and a guiding animal for the Huns. In classical and medieval bestiaries, the stag is lustful (obviously Robert, but not Stannis.)

In Norse mythology, Eikþyrnir the stag, stands in Valhalla. The stags Dáinn, Dvalinn, Duneyrr and Duraþrór gnaw at the great tree Yggdrasill.

The Celts believed stags could pass between worlds (Storms End is supposedly a magical and warded place.)

The most revealing use of the stag is through Cerunnos, the great horned God. Epigraphically, Cerunnos appears only once (on the Pillar of the Boatmen from Roman Gaul) and nothing else was recorded about him apart from the said inscription. I doubt even the anciebnt Celts could recall much. He is an extremely ancient god (see the sorcerer-stag of Trois-Frères from 13,000BC.) Cerunnos, lord of animals, is very similar in appearance to the Indian god Pashupati, particularly from the Mohenjo Daro seals. Cerunnos and Pashupati look extremely similar, both are horned gods, both are surrounded by animals, both even sit in the same pose. But they are from different cultures thousands of miles away.

---

Another thing that bugs me is the antler in the direwolf's throat at the very beginning of the series. Of course it's a useful macguffin for the Stark children to meet their lupine animas. Others have pointed out that the dead direwolf symbolized the suffering of House Stark at the hands Joffrey. But Joffrey is not a true Baratheon.

Is the true danger from Stannis another of Baratheon blood? He called for Robb Stark's death through Melisandre's blood magic, but while she may have foreseen the Young Wolf's death, I doubt she caused it. Even more important than Stannis himself is his ancestral home.

Even taking into consideration the Isle of Faces, Storm's End is one of the most magical places sout of the Wall. Spells have been woven into its walls and it may have been raised by Bran the Builder. Melisandre states that:

Davos has to literally row her under its walls, whose protection is more than merely physical, before she can unleash her shadow assassin.

I suspect Storm's End is yet another otherworldly portal.

Direwolf, dragon, lion and stag are featured in the opening credits of the tv show.

While direwolf and dragon are the magic pairing (a song of ice and fire?) lion and stag are the "worldly" pairing (a game of thrones?). Noteworthy that the weakest worldly totem kills the (weakest?) magical totem. For balance, the dragon needs to kill the lion.

Another stag-Baratheon reference might be Arminius the Cherusci (or Herman the German). The totem animal of the Cherusci supposedly was a stag, he is well-know for defeating the Romans at Teutoburg forest (Romans carried dragon symbols sometimes, there is a strong speciulation that the Nibelungenlied "Nibelung song" is a variation on this), his wife was kidnapped by the Romans, and he was murdered by his family. He didn't carry a warhammer, though.

[Lord Ravenstark]

It may sound like... too much heretical?

But magic has a price. You kill to pay a life, can you "create a life" (sexual intercourse) to kill? I am probably wrong but still trying to understand what's the price and how one can pay.

[Lord Ravenstark]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna cause she saw him in girl's clothes. I don't know why people try to deny the obvious... Rhaegar was gay. Not any kind of gay but the heir of the IT who must marry a woman and produce heirs. It matches with much of Rhaegar we know. Of course, say that in any R+L=J thread would cost my family's life.

Yes, I like this very much. It speaks of balance, which fits our recent conversations about magic - it also provides another layer to the changeling arc/motif connected with both Bran and Monster. Inasmuch as the movement of children is an exchange, it also echoes the 'bargain' made by Craster's wives with Sam - in which Sam receives the gillyflower as token payment for transporting Monster to the Black Gate.

About Changeling... I understand Monster but why Bran?

[wolfmaid7]

It may sound like... too much heretical?

But magic has a price. You kill to pay a life, can you "create a life" (sexual intercourse) to kill? I am probably wrong but still trying to understand what's the price and how one can pay.

Based on what i know of dark magic and sex magic.First lets say you have a "magical work" to perform any magical working whether big or small needs a price,needs you to put back into the system an equivalent for which you are taking out.What makes this tricky is the price you pay may not be equivalent to what you want.

Lets say i want to do a working and the working is to remove you,take your life it not so simple because what i'm asking is not just removing you.Its removing you,your future line, upsetting things that you and maybe your future offsprings would have done.Magic has to compensate for all of that,therefore is the price i'm paying enough to cover that big a ripple.

I may say the price i'm willing to pay is my sister and i give her up ;the next day my son dies because when nature weighs everything out his life and not my sister's was enough to balance what i took out.

Lets say Mel is not full of crap and that whole bit with the Leeches is her doing then what did she give up?What did she pay for those 3 lives? Therefore what crap will happen in order to balance what she did.How did things work out on account of Robb,Balon and Jeoffrey's deaths those voids have to be filled.

Sex magic is...... well no words can express..... it is pure power and pure energy orgasms are lifeforces being produced.In the act of intercourse you can do a working,without even making a baby just having an orgasm can do a lot.Mel and the White lady are probably great cases of sex magic. Whether a shadow baby was formed or just orgasm it would be enough energy to harness for a working.

Creating a life to kill it is sacrificial its all about obtaining power from a nuclear reactor.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

About Changeling... I understand Monster but why Bran?

.

Well, as I recall a few threads back we discussed the changeling plot formula both in general terms, and in terms of the variations Martin uses in his different narrative arcs. The general formula involves the swap of a human child for a fairy child (a "monster") - and Martin plays on this theme in different ways with different characters. The storylines that come to mind for me right now are the birth of Rhaego and Dany's dragons, the stories and rumors surrounding Tyrion's birth, and Monster's journey south from Craster's Keep to Castle Black.

Bran fits in as the human child exchanged with Monster (the fairy child) at the Black Gate - where each crosses the boundary from one world into another. At some point in another Heresy thread, we discussed Bran's passage through the gate under the Wall as symbolically both a burial and a baptism - a descent into the underworld, and a passage into death or new life. Before they approach the Gate, Jojen Reed states aloud to Sam - as if in a ritual declaration of faith - that Bran Stark is dead. And before bringing Gilly and Monster across, Sam is instructed by Coldhands that he must return with Bran to the north side of the Wall. Almost as if it were a condition of their passage.

Beyond that, there are two other events in Monster's story that reprise the theme of the "swap" - one is at Craster's Keep, where Monster's birth occurs simultaneously with the death of a man of the Night's Watch (was it Bannen?), and the other is Jon's supposedly secret exchange of Monster for Mance's son, who Jon believes is in danger of dying in Mel's fires, and who is then sent south to Oldtown with Gilly. I think each of these three swaps works as a different interpretation of the rule that "only death pays for life."

Of course, with all this trading of Monster, you get the feeling Martin is running some kind of a shell game. "Watch closely; keep your eye on the Other... you think you know where it is? Okay, you can double your money if you guess correctly..."

(Wonder if there are any more "swaps" in Monster's future...?)

.

[ghosts in winterfell]

"Promise me Ned... Promise me that bastard Rhaegar died screaming..."

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :devil:

LOL I love it.

[Phillip Frye]

Alien Area mentioned at the end of the last thread that Symeon Star-Eyes seeing hellhounds fighting at the Wall could have meant the King of Winter fighting and defeating the Night's King. I had also thought of this very good observation and wish that I could have brought it up before Alien Area, or even before the end of the thread for that matter.

However, I think that the term hellhounds would particularly apply to two Starks: one who betrayed his oath to guard the gate between the realms of faerie and the realms of men and the other who would be have been a kinslayer. Two such Starks would seem to be prime candidates for inclusion in the frozen hell for the Stark rulers. Given The Ned's fear of such a frozen hell as family folklore, it would make sense to describe two Stark betrayers as hellhounds because they are destined for the frozen hell. I think this supports Alien Area's observation.

I think that we can place Symeon Star-Eyes at the time of the Night King for other reasons. First, the eyes like sapphires or actual sapphires. Either way, it seems clear that Martin wants to draw a connection between Symeon Star-Eyes and the story of the Night's King and his blue-eyed corpse bride (think about that bit of Jewish folklore).

I would also note that Symeon Star-Eyes initials would be S.S., which would also be the initials of one Sherrit Stark, assuming that he were both the Night's King and a Stark, two big assumptions many heretics make. Another connection. If you really want to jump through the looking glass, consider whether Symeon Star-Eyes could also have been a Stark. He is given no family name, just like King Sherrit, whom we also often assume was a Stark. It would certainly explain his involvement with the Wall and the Night Fort.

The really central feature of Symeon Star-Eyes that wasn't brought up in the last thread was his duality. First, look at his alliterative name. He is blind man who describes visual events at the Wall. He wields a polearm with blades at both ends. Also, this is a weapon that an ordinary person could not have the coordination to handle well, much less a blind man. This duality points at him belonging to two worlds. He has one foot in the realms of men and one foot in the realms of faerie beyond the Wall, which would explain the blue eyes like sapphires.

Did Symeon Star-Eyes have the blue eyes like the Others or did he actually put sapphires in his eye sockets? Martin gives us evidence for both (describing his eyes similarly to those of the Others and stating that the legends from the mists of time should not be taken literally v. two other examples of characters putting stones into eye-sockets). I lean towards the blue eyes theory myself, but either could be correct. However, I think that he really could see in any event. He either had the same eyes as the Army of Damned and could see normally (or even extraordinarily) or I think that he could see through others at the Wall, either people or animal, much like Arya.

[Grey Words]

Alien Area mentioned at the end of the last thread that Symeon Star-Eyes seeing hellhounds fighting at the Wall could have meant the King of Winter fighting and defeating the Night's King. I had also thought of this very good observation and wish that I could have brought it up before Alien Area, or even before the end of the thread for that matter.

However, I think that the term hellhounds would particularly apply to two Starks: one who betrayed his oath to guard the gate between the realms of faerie and the realms of men and the other who would be have been a kinslayer. Two such Starks would seem to be prime candidates for inclusion in the frozen hell for the Stark rulers. Given The Ned's fear of such a frozen hell as family folklore, it would make sense to describe two Stark betrayers as hellhounds because they are destined for the frozen hell. I think this supports Alien Area's observation.

I think that we can place Symeon Star-Eyes at the time of the Night King for other reasons. First, the eyes like sapphires or actual sapphires. Either way, it seems clear that Martin wants to draw a connection between Symeon Star-Eyes and the story of the Night's King and his blue-eyed corpse bride (think about that bit of Jewish folklore).

I would also note that Symeon Star-Eyes initials would be S.S., which would also be the initials of one Sherrit Stark, assuming that he were both the Night's King and a Stark, two big assumptions many heretics make. Another connection. If you really want to jump through the looking glass, consider whether Symeon Star-Eyes could also have been a Stark. He is given no family name, just like King Sherrit, whom we also often assume was a Stark. It would certainly explain his involvement with the Wall and the Night Fort.

The really central feature of Symeon Star-Eyes that wasn't brought up in the last thread was his duality. First, look at his alliterative name. He is blind man who describes visual events at the Wall. He wields a polearm with blades at both ends. Also, this is a weapon that an ordinary person could not have the coordination to handle well, much less a blind man. This duality points at him belonging to two worlds. He has one foot in the realms of men and one foot in the realms of faerie beyond the Wall, which would explain the blue eyes like sapphires.

Did Symeon Star-Eyes have the blue eyes like the Others or did he actually put sapphires in his eye sockets? Martin gives us evidence for both (describing his eyes similarly to those of the Others and stating that the legends from the mists of time should not be taken literally v. two other examples of characters putting stones into eye-sockets). I lean towards the blue eyes theory myself, but either could be correct. However, I think that he really could see in any event. He either had the same eyes as the Army of Damned and could see normally (or even extraordinarily) or I think that he could see through others at the Wall, either people or animal, much like Arya.

As we have evidence of characters putting stones in eye sockets I don't have any problem with Symeon putting actual sapphires in his own. As the story also tells of him seeing the hell hounds fighting I wonder if the is a form of magic, elemental, dark sorcery or whatever, that gives form of sight via the use of sapphires; If rubies can be used for the purpose of a glamour to either alter the vision of those observing the wearer or alter the appearance of the ruby's wearer, I can see sapphires providing vision. Though he has no natural eyes, perhaps he's not blind thanks to magic. Then again, maybe those are not sapphires at all....

[Black Crow]

I think that the Black Gate itself may be relevant to this discussion. Interestingly Old Nan doesn't speak of it, but that can be ascribed simply to not giving things away too early. What's important is that it exists. The other castles simply have gated tunnels driven through the Wall at ground level. The fact the Black Gate is as old as the Wall, deep below ground and magic puts it into a category of its own.

The answer has to be as a portal between the realms. To all appearances the Wall is warded but presumably the reason for the magic in the gate was to allow the blue-eyed lot to pass through - hence the presence of both the Nights Queen and Symeon Star Eyes. The hell hounds in that context are part of the security and if they are not synonymous with direwolves but the other side of the equation then that is because they are on the warm side of the Wall so to speak.

There is an objection to this of course in Cold Hands' inability or professed inability to cross but that may be due to the lock placed by the Nights Watch rather than the original magic.

[wolfmaid7]

I think that the Black Gate itself may be relevant to this discussion. Interestingly Old Nan doesn't speak of it, but that can be ascribed simply to not giving things away too early. What's important is that it exists. The other castles simply have gated tunnels driven through the Wall at ground level. The fact the Black Gate is as old as the Wall, deep below ground and magic puts it into a category of its own.

The answer has to be as a portal between the realms. To all appearances the Wall is warded but presumably the reason for the magic in the gate was to allow the blue-eyed lot to pass through - hence the presence of both the Nights Queen and Symeon Star Eyes. The hell hounds in that context are part of the security and if they are not synonymous with direwolves but the other side of the equation then that is because they are on the warm side of the Wall so to speak.

There is an objection to this of course in Cold Hands' inability or professed inability to cross but that may be due to the lock placed by the Nights Watch rather than the original magic.

I have to say CH is different because he is dead and I think that is the major reason he can't cross the threshold. As to Popsicles ,based on Sam's description of the Wall as being " pure ice" I believe that Popsicles lore is a component that went into building it and i don't think they nor the COTF will put magic into something that blocks them,so I believe they (Popsicles)can cross but choose not to.

"Is the Wall as big as Craster use to say?" Gilly asked."Bigger". Sam tried to sound cheerful."So big you can't even see the castle's hidden behind it.But they're there you'll see.The Wall is all ice,but the castles are stone and wood(ASOS,Sam,pg.640).

That Popsicles can cross is speculation ,though only time will tell.I just don't see the COTF who i view as Earth elementals (songs of Earth) pulling off this kind of magic.I keep going back to "they can do things with ice we can only dream off" statement by GRRM.The black gate has wood in it so i can see them (COTF) having a hand in the magic of the gate and a human component to act as Spirit center.

Coldhands smelled. Dead meat, dry blood, a faint whiff of rot. And cold. Cold over all. (Bran 1 ADWD).

Summer's reaction is directed at CH negativly because imo he was touched by "the cold" but somehow he was able to reclaim the body.Whether the truth is the WWs weaponized "the cold" or Whether it is sentient it is what i believe is the animating force behind the Wights and that is what i believe the Wall was constructed to block; as keeping it on one side keeps it from coming in contact with the humans dying and dead in masses.

Edit: Finishing thought.