Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part I: AGoT

[MoIaF]

A couple of other things are worthy of note. The betrothal party was a big deal.

I think a lot of people in Essos were taking a lot of interest in Danerys, for years. Hopefully, these plots will be revealed in more detail in coming books.

I wonder, too, what they make of her anti-slavery crusade. Can they live with it? Do they think they can talk her out of it? Or will they "free" their slaves, while still actually keeping them as slaves (like Illyrio)?

I wonder if these Essosi who have been keeping tabs on Dany will play a role in helping her come to Westeros. They know first hand what she is capable of - I can see the Iron Bank of Braavos making an investment on her as well they won't want t put all their eggs in one basket.

My Sister for a Crown

Viserys agrees to marry his sister to Khal Drogo with the promise that Drogo will eventually help him conquer Westeros. He is assured by both Illyrio and Ser Jorah that the Dothraki are true to their word.

The Dothraki might be true to their word but it struck me the Viserys sold his sister for a promise from a man he didnt even know. We eventually learn that the Dothraki are weary of traveling in open water. It makes you wonder if they would have ever gone to war for Viserys, especially after Drogo got to know him and saw how weak he was. Illyrio got his compensation for arranging the wedding but I dont believe Viserys would have gotten his, in the end he gave his sister up for nothing.

This is what really struck me in this chapter. Dany is often portrayed as naive, but what of Viserys? As Dany points out, they don't fully know Illyrio and his reputation is tarnished. She questions her own trust in him, but Viserys seems to blindly trust Illyrio (and Drogo, for that matter). Is this the opposite of paranoid Aerys, or was this how Aerys started out? Dany analyzes the situation based on all the available information, while Viserys seems to be operating on sheer emotion.

I love the dragon dreams. I definitely think they are prophetic, I wonder why Dany is first manifesting this ability at this time. She wakes up frightened here, but IIRC, her later dream serves to comfort her. I suppose that is discussion fodder for later, but it is helpful to point out that she is undergoing a transition between being afraid of the dragon, and being the dragon itself. I believe she has been under this transition throughout the series.

I did reread this chapter before I posted this, and for the first time it did strike me how big of a deal the betrothal party was. I hadn't noticed that before either, great observation.

Super excited for this thread.

Thank you and welcome to the re-read!

It's funny you mention Dany analyzing the situation vs. Viserys more emotional behavior. She is quite capable of assessing a situation, however, her biggest mistakes were when she allowed herself to be ruled by her emotions, when she behaved like Viserys.

[MoIaF]

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SeanF will have his analysis in tomorrow, Monday, January 20.

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[SeanF]

A GAME OF THRONES

A WATERSHED – DAENERYS CHAPTER 3

Summary

The Chapter begins with Dany and Ser Jorah riding at the head of the Khalasar to the brink of the Dothraki Sea, thousands of miles of grassland. Dany thinks it’s beautiful. She asks Ser Jorah to halt the Khalasar, and gallops downhill to the grassland, enjoying herself in much the same way as she did when she rode her Silver for the first time.

However, the chapter then flashes back, and we learn that her first weeks with the Khalasar were miserable. She found riding for hours on end agonising. Worse, Drogo treated her insensitively, ignoring her during the day, yet expecting sex with her each night, which she found very painful. Eventually, the pain from both riding and sex became so much that she vowed to commit suicide. She then had the second of her dragon dreams:-

“There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole.”

From then on, she feels better each day. The riding becomes increasingly less painful, and she learns to take pleasure in her surroundings. She now rides with Drogo during the day, at the head of the Khalasar, and looks forward to her riding. She begins to find sex with Drogo enjoyable.

The chapter then returns to the present. She loves the sights and scents of the grassland, and dismounts. At that point, her brother rides up, shouting abuse at her for having commanded him to halt. He starts to squeeze her painfully. At that point, she pushes him away, for the first time in her life. They are both astonished by this, and Viserys is about to hit her, when her bodyguard Jhogo cracks his whip round his throat, and drags him to the ground. Jhogo wants to kill him, and then suggests cutting off his ear to teach him manners. She rejects both suggestions, but does confiscate his horse, so that he will have to walk behind the Khalasar, losing their respect. She realises for the first time that “he was a pitiful thing. He had always been a pitiful thing. Why had she not seen that before?”

Viserys makes a last attempt to reassert authority over her, ordering Ser Jorah to hurt her, and kill the Dothraki. He looks him up and down, and then makes his decision. He ignores him, and rides off with Dany.

Dany is still amazed that she stood up to Viserys, and discusses him with Ser Jorah. She is worried that she “woke the dragon.” Ser Jorah retorts that Viserys is no dragon, instead “less than the shadow of a snake.” He then comments that there “have been worse” (kings than Viserys) “but not many.” Dany is shocked, and says that the common people are praying for Viserys’ return to Westeros. Ser Jorah scoffs at this idea, and tells her:-

“The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them, if the high lords play their game of thrones……..”Dany thinks about this and realises her brother will never take back the Seven Kingdoms. What’s more “she had known this all her life. Only, she had never let herself say the words, not even in a whisper.”

She then rides back to the camp. She is strangely drawn to the dragon egg from which Drogon will later hatch. She discusses dragons with her handmaidens, who have outlandish ideas about where they came from. Her handmaidens bathe her, and then she has supper with the former sex-slave, Doreah. She then goes to make love with Drogo. Instead of being mounted from behind, she says she wants to look on his face, and she goes on top. Drogo calls out her name at the moment of climax. A few days later, she learns that she is pregnant, on her fourteenth birthday.

[SeanF]

Observations.

Dany’s previous dragon dream frightened her. This one inspires her. For the first time, she embraces the “dragon” side of her personality. For the first time too, Viserys learns what it is to “wake the dragon” in his sister.

It’s easy to form the impression that the Dothraki view women as chattels, particularly in view of Drogo’s initial treatment of her. Yet, he at least seems to welcome a confident, assertive wife. Once she learns to enjoy riding, he’s happy to spend the day riding with her, and even lets her give orders to the Khalasar. He’s willing too, to make love in the way that Dany prefers, at the end of the chapter.

Dany is starting to earn the respect of the Khalasar. Viserys is earning their contempt. She adapts to Dothraki ways. He insists on wearing clothing that’s completely unsuitable for the Dothraki Sea.

The Khalasar rides past a ruined city, “filled with ghosts.” We’ll learn in A Dance with Dragons that this was Ar Noy, once ruled by Dany’s distant ancestor, Queen Nymeria.

Ser Jorah’s comment about the common people comes over as wise and sensible at first. On reflection, it is somewhat patronising. We see in the books that the Smallfolk are often strongly committed to their lords, even if they don’t play power politics.

Analysis

This chapter is a watershed for its three principal characters.

For Daenerys, it represents the point at which she breaks free of her abusive brother. Not only is she prepared to stand up to him, she’s prepared to punish him, by taking his horse away. This is shocking for both her and Viserys, but Viserys is revealed to be a paper tiger.

This chapter also shows that Dany is starting to enjoy the Dothraki way of life. Riding becomes a pleasure for her. She dresses as a Dothraki. She enjoys visiting new lands as the Khalasar rides East. She learns that she is tough and resilient, able to cope with adversity. This is something that she had never realised, when she was being abused by Viserys. Illyrio later describes her as having been “frightened and furtive” when she came to Pentos. No longer.

It’s also a turning point for her, sexually. Just as she has become assertive in her dealings with her brother, and the Khalasar, so she takes the initiative, when making love to Drogo. Far from being dismayed by this, Drogo is pleased.

Dany’s second dragon dream has brought out qualities of courage and resilience in her, that were previously latent. She wonders if “the gods have answered her prayer”. It is certainly a supernatural experience, and will not be the last of her prophetic dreams and visions.

Equally, this chapter represents a turning point for Viserys. In short order, he loses the respect of his sister, the Khalasar, and Ser Jorah. To his sister, he is a “pitiful thing.” In truth, she does pity him. In succeeding chapters, we’ll see Dany trying to save him from himself, up till the point where this becomes impossible. Even after his death, she never ceases to mourn him. He steadfastly refuses to adapt to Dothraki ways, wearing city silks that are quite unsuited to long journeys on horseback, and making clear how much he despises them. The fact that Jhogo quite casually suggests either killing him or cutting off his ear shows how little respect they have for him. The fact that he can state that Drogo will “learn to his cost what it is to wake the dragon” is laughable. Finally, he loses his one sworn knight, Ser Jorah, who reviles him as being “less than the shadow of a snake”.

The chapter is also a watershed for Ser Jorah. He is sworn to Viserys. Viserys orders him to hurt Dany, and kill the Dothraki. Ser Jorah would, of course, be committing suicide if he attempted to obey such an order. However, it is not fear that causes him to switch allegiance from Viserys to Dany. He realises that Viserys is weak, vicious, and worthless, whereas Dany has the qualities of a leader, whom he admires. Later, Ser Jorah will fall in love with Dany. I don’t think he is in love at this stage. Simply, he recognises that Dany is someone to follow.

Conclusion

Rather naughtily, the blurb on my edition of A Game of Thrones implies that Viserys will be the antagonist to the Baratheons and Starks. We now learn that this is false, and that Dany will be their antagonist. By contrast, it’s clear that Viserys is hurtling towards self-destruction. In his remaining chapters, he will learn nothing, and forget nothing, Perhaps Dany should have let Jhogo take an ear after all.

[MoIaF]

Observations.

1. Dany’s previous dragon dream frightened her. This one inspires her. For the first time, she embraces the “dragon” side of her personality. For the first time too, Viserys learns what it is to “wake the dragon” in his sister.

2. It’s easy to form the impression that the Dothraki view women as chattels, particularly in view of Drogo’s initial treatment of her. Yet, he at least seems to welcome a confident, assertive wife. Once she learns to enjoy riding, he’s happy to spend the day riding with her, and even lets her give orders to the Khalasar. He’s willing too, to make love in the way that Dany prefers, at the end of the chapter.

Dany is starting to earn the respect of the Khalasar. Viserys is earning their contempt. She adapts to Dothraki ways. He insists on wearing clothing that’s completely unsuitable for the Dothraki Sea.

The Khalasar rides past a ruined city, “filled with ghosts.” We’ll learn in A Dance with Dragons that this was Ar Noy, once ruled by Dany’s distant ancestor, Queen Nymeria.

3. Ser Jorah’s comment about the common people comes over as wise and sensible at first. On reflection, it is somewhat patronising. We see in the books that the Smallfolk are often strongly committed to their lords, even if they don’t play power politics.

Analysis

This chapter is a watershed for its three principal characters.

For Daenerys, it represents the point at which she breaks free of her abusive brother. Not only is she prepared to stand up to him, she’s prepared to punish him, by taking his horse away. This is shocking for both her and Viserys, but Viserys is revealed to be a paper tiger.

4. This chapter also shows that Dany is starting to enjoy the Dothraki way of life. Riding becomes a pleasure for her. She dresses as a Dothraki. She enjoys visiting new lands as the Khalasar rides East. She learns that she is tough and resilient, able to cope with adversity. This is something that she had never realised, when she was being abused by Viserys. Illyrio later describes her as having been “frightened and furtive” when she came to Pentos. No longer.

5. It’s also a turning point for her, sexually. Just as she has become assertive in her dealings with her brother, and the Khalasar, so she takes the initiative, when making love to Drogo. Far from being dismayed by this, Drogo is pleased.

Dany’s second dragon dream has brought out qualities of courage and resilience in her, that were previously latent. She wonders if “the gods have answered her prayer”. It is certainly a supernatural experience, and will not be the last of her prophetic dreams and visions.

6. Equally, this chapter represents a turning point for Viserys. In short order, he loses the respect of his sister, the Khalasar, and Ser Jorah. To his sister, he is a “pitiful thing.” In truth, she does pity him. In succeeding chapters, we’ll see Dany trying to save him from himself, up till the point where this becomes impossible. Even after his death, she never ceases to mourn him. He steadfastly refuses to adapt to Dothraki ways, wearing city silks that are quite unsuited to long journeys on horseback, and making clear how much he despises them. The fact that Jhogo quite casually suggests either killing him or cutting off his ear shows how little respect they have for him. The fact that he can state that Drogo will “learn to his cost what it is to wake the dragon” is laughable. Finally, he loses his one sworn knight, Ser Jorah, who reviles him as being “less than the shadow of a snake”.

The chapter is also a watershed for Ser Jorah. He is sworn to Viserys. Viserys orders him to hurt Dany, and kill the Dothraki. Ser Jorah would, of course, be committing suicide if he attempted to obey such an order. However, it is not fear that causes him to switch allegiance from Viserys to Dany. He realises that Viserys is weak, vicious, and worthless, whereas Dany has the qualities of a leader, whom he admires. Later, Ser Jorah will fall in love with Dany. I don’t think he is in love at this stage. Simply, he recognises that Dany is someone to follow.

Conclusion

Rather naughtily, the blurb on my edition of A Game of Thrones implies that Viserys will be the antagonist to the Baratheons and Starks. We now learn that this is false, and that Dany will be their antagonist. By contrast, it’s clear that Viserys is hurtling towards self-destruction. In his remaining chapters, he will learn nothing, and forget nothing, Perhaps Dany should have let Jhogo take an ear after all.

Excellent analysis SeanF!

1. I also see this dream as part of the bonding process with Drogon. As you mentioned above she embraces the dragon. I found this part particularly interesting:

"She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce."

The dragon fire is washing away her old self and then renews her. I know the saying that fire destroys, but also fire cleanses and creates (a la volcano). You mention later that his is a supernatural experience and I agree with you. The initial bonding with Drogon did make her stronger, I think a good analogy would be Bran and Summer during his coma. Robb tells his mother to leave the window open so that Bran can hear Summer sing, and in Dany;s dream she hears the dragon sing:

"its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her."

2. The Dothraki (like the Wildings) respect and follow strength. Once Dany started to get stronger and bolder she earns their respect and thus they follow her. You can see this with Jorah as well.

3. You know that's a really interesting way of thinking about it, and I never thought of it that way. In some respects his comment is correct that the common people want peace, however, they very much care about their lords and are loyal to them. Good catch!

4. Dany might not have realize this but this was really who she was. She had to learn to adapt to different citations, her life had never really been stable. The difference here is that although the Dothraki are nomads there is still security in their lifestyle, which Dany didn't really have with Viserys. He would take "care" of her but he also abused her.

5. Agreed, she is starting to take control of herself - asserting herself as a women, as a person.

6. Agreed as well. For the first time Dany acknowledges what she has always known about her brother. He is't the toe of man who could lead an army, who could take back his family's crown, who could be king. By the end of this chapter everyone realizes what a pathetic person Viserys is, and I find it kind of sad.

Other Notes

Here are a few things that also occurred to me while reading the chapter:

1. Ser Jorah

"Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end"

"That thought gave Dany the shivers. “I don’t want to talk about that now,” she said. “It’s so beautiful here, I don’t want to think about everything dying."

Two things occurred to me while reading this exchange:

a. I thing the ghost grass might be related to the Others. We will see in ADWD that Xaro Xhaon Daxos has reached Qarth, so it has began to spread.

b. The subject is unpleasant to Dany and she ask Jorah to stop because she doesn’t want it to ruin the day. For the first time in her life she is able to control the "unpleasantness of life" and so decides to shut it away. However, this will later reflect negatively on her ability to listen to the harsh truths of life.

2. Ser Jorah comments to Dany that Rhaegar was the "Last Dragon". In a later chapter we'll see Dany have a prophetic dream in which her family (including her son) urge her on and begin to call her the last dragon.

3. Dany comments:

"Magic had died in the west when the Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer, and neither spell-forged steel nor stormsingers nor dragons could hold it back, but Dany had always heard that the east was different."

However, we learn later that the magic doesn't come back (full force?) until the return of the dragons.

4. Finally, we hear from Doreah the Qarthian story regarding the origins of the dragons"

“He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi,” the Lysene girl said. “Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return."

I think this is a clear hint from GRRM regarding one of Dany's purposes. She is clearly the second moon (Moon of my life) who will later "kiss the sun" (the pyre) and bring back the dragons.

[Parwan]

The dreams are significant. They portend things to come, whether they are exactly prophetic or not. I like the idea of the dragon seeking her. It ties in with my thought of the mount choosing the rider. There are various posts, here and on other threads, that state, or at least suggest such things. One can say that Daenerys has experiences and thoughts, then works things out. Another view is that something reaches out to the young lady and eventually gets through to her. It isn't entirely clear what this "something" might be--dragons? magic? her family heritage?...

The first instance we get of Dany even thinking of herself as blood of the dragon occurs after she has the initial dragon dream. And, in the beginning of the process, she does not state the "blood of.." business as a fact for others to acknowledge, or even as a claim for others to reply to. In so far as she says it out loud, she only whispers it. Clearly, she is talking to no one but herself. In neither Dany II nor Dany III, does the young woman make a public assertion that she is a dragon. Viserys is the assertive one. During the wedding ceremony, she does repeat the phrase "I am the blood of the dragon." This is a thought or a whispered comment. It is nothing like her later statements when she is a leader. It's not a claim of power, ruling ability, or even of rights. It's a way of trying to give herself strength, almost something like "gods, please help me." In Dany III, Viserys is still saying things like, "You do not command the dragon." Dany tells Jorah, "I woke the dragon, didn't I?"

Dany is thinking about dragons, perhaps starting to look for dragons in a way. Or maybe dragons are seeking her. Or perhaps both. She has the second dragon dream, and the very next day the pain of riding abates. She feels warmth from the dragon eggs. She gets stronger and more confident. Some readers see no magic in this. They maintain that it is just a matter of the young woman adapting to the situation, of her body toughening with experience. I don't accept this view. We have phrases like, "From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it." This phrase has nothing to do with common experience. It strongly indicates some kind of causal links among three factors--the dragon dream, the perception of something other than cold stone in the eggs, and the increasing power and confidence of Daenerys Targaryen.

Even with that, however, Dany still doesn't self identify as the dragon, or as someone who has a right to rule because of dragon blood. She is more confident. She sees herself as a leader. But her way of expressing this to Jorah is to say that she is a khaleesi.

There is a large distance between

"So she sat in her wedding silks, nursing a cup of honeyed wine, afraid to eat, talking silently to herself."

And later statements like

"I am the blood of the dragon. Do not presume to teach me lessons."

Dany walks an interesting path between these two points. We have a good bit to discuss on the matter. Obviously, there have been other discussions about the young queen's attitudes. In my opinion, these discussions have often lacked depth. I think we can do better.

[Gogossos]

Another view is that something reaches out to the young lady and eventually gets through to her. It isn't entirely clear what this "something" might be--dragons? magic? her family heritage?...

Many interesting thoughts there Parwan, I'm sure we'll return to them but now I wanted to touch on this a bit. In my view, the dragons/magic or something (whatever that may be) are reaching out to her. Dany's forebears have failed, sometimes spectacularly, to achieve what she eventually got. I think Drogon is specifically calling out to her. I really think the pyre scene is just a culmination of what we see taking place is this chapter. The first dragon dream was meant to assure her but it had the opposite effect since it was the first time. The second dream has the desired effect, giving her strength when she needed it. In the dream she sensed her blood on the dragon - something of her heritage inspires the bond between them. But the reason other Targs failed is, to put it crudely, they were calling on the dragons when there were none to listen. Dany's situation is totally reverse, when she's in need, even if she doesn't know it, the dragon comes calling. I have this pet theory, much like the Stark direwolves who sense danger to their masters, Drogon flew back to Meereen to the pit help/rescue Dany and refused to go back with her for similar reasons.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Great Essay SeanF!! I agree on all of it :bowdown:

I found this chapter really mouthwatering!!

I agree in particular about Jorah choosing Dany over Viserys, and one thing that stood out to me again was the comparison of Viserys and Dany again when Jorah made that decision..

The exile knight looked from Dany to her brother; she barefoot,with dirt between her toes and oil in her hair, he with his silks and steel.

I found this interesting as its almost similar to the comparison of Daario and Hizdahr at the end of ADWD, meaning this is where the author wants Dany to go, rather than being a "Queen" in silks.

Again GRRM makes another distinction in Dany's character:

“You are learning to talk like a queen, Daenerys.” “Not a queen,” said Dany. “A khaleesi.” She wheeled her horse about and galloped down the ridge alone.

I think this quote is very important towards Dany's arc as she later goes on to become a "queen". I think the difference between a queen and a khaleesi is very symbolic in Dany's arc. As I made the distinctions above between her and Viserys and also Hizdahr and Daario and I believe they all point toward the distinction of Queen vs. Khaleesi in Dany's arc.

I think the symbolic difference is that a "Queen" sits back and lets others do things for them vs the Khaleesi symbol which is taking command, being proactive and doing things along side your people more like a leader. This motif is a very important part of Dany's arc, later on we will even see that it is even symbolized as Dany wearing a Dothraki vest in some instances.

Among other things I also noticed the further emphasis of Dany riding the filly as similar to her previous chapter.

The descent was steep and rocky, but Dany rode fearlessly, and the joy and the danger of it were a song in her heart. All her life Viserys had told her she was a princess, but not until she rode her silver had Daenerys Targaryen ever felt like one.

Also on Illyrio and Varys' plan: Illyrio seemed to want Viserys to stay with him in Pentos, however

"Illyrio had blinked at that and wished him good fortune."

This seems like a very passive remark by Illyrio, meaning he really didn't care if Viserys went with Dany or not.

ETA: I don't know if I should call this weird, funny, intriguing or interesting but...

"lemurs with silver fur and huge purple eyes"

The lemurs have Valyrian features? :eek:

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Many interesting thoughts there Parwan, I'm sure we'll return to them but now I wanted to touch on this a bit. In my view, the dragons/magic or something (whatever that may be) are reaching out to her. Dany's forebears have failed, sometimes spectacularly, to achieve what she eventually got. I think Drogon is specifically calling out to her. I really think the pyre scene is just a culmination of what we see taking place is this chapter. The first dragon dream was meant to assure her but it had the opposite effect since it was the first time. The second dream has the desired effect, giving her strength when she needed it. In the dream she sensed her blood on the dragon - something of her heritage inspires the bond between them. But the reason other Targs failed is, to put it crudely, they were calling on the dragons when there were none to listen. Dany's situation is totally reverse, when she's in need, even if she doesn't know it, the dragon comes calling. I have this pet theory, much like the Stark direwolves who sense danger to their masters, Drogon flew back to Meereen to the pit help/rescue Dany and refused to go back with her for similar reasons.

I agree with the bolded part alot nice catch !!1

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

The dreams are significant. They portend things to come, whether they are exactly prophetic or not. I like the idea of the dragon seeking her. It ties in with my thought of the mount choosing the rider. There are various posts, here and on other threads, that state, or at least suggest such things. One can say that Daenerys has experiences and thoughts, then works things out. Another view is that something reaches out to the young lady and eventually gets through to her. It isn't entirely clear what this "something" might be--dragons? magic? her family heritage?...

Thats what I believe too, a dragon chooses its rider not the rider choosing its dragon

[Fire Eater]

"I pray for home too," she told him, believing it.

Ser Jorah laughed. "Look around you then, Khaleesi."

Jorah can give some sage words sometimes, his words being a way of saying "home is where you make it." Dany is pretty rootless, and had never known a real home, and she is starting to call the Dothraki Sea home.

The exile knight looked from Dany to her brother; she barefoot,with dirt between her toes and oil in her hair, he with his silks and steel.

I found this interesting as its almost similar to the comparison of Daario and Hizdahr at the end of ADWD, meaning this is where the author wants Dany to go, rather than being a "Queen" in silks.

Good call, especially since she associates herself with slaves later on. She is a more rugged, down-to-earth person compared to the Queen in silk, Cersei.

1. Ser Jorah

"Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end"

"That thought gave Dany the shivers. “I don’t want to talk about that now,” she said. “It’s so beautiful here, I don’t want to think about everything dying."

Two things occurred to me while reading this exchange:

a. I thing the ghost grass might be related to the Others. We will see in ADWD that Xaro Xhaon Daxos has reached Qarth, so it has began to spread.

b. The subject is unpleasant to Dany and she ask Jorah to stop because she doesn’t want it to ruin the day. For the first time in her life she is able to control the "unpleasantness of life" and so decides to shut it away. However, this will later reflect negatively on her ability to listen to the harsh truths of life.

Good point on b, Dany values honest counsel, but she tries to block out unpleasant things including harsh truths.

It went against everything that Viserys had ever told her to think that the people could care so little whether a true king or a usurper reigned over them. Yet the more she thought on Jorah's words, the more they rang of truth.

Viserys is the source of most of her info on Targaryens, the 7K and Robert's Rebellion. She manages to accept that Viserys may have told is false, and I think her failing is questioning his other teachings, even when Barristan tells her that one of them, her father being mad being a lie, was actually true. She gets plenty of hints about Viserys's teachings being proven wrong, but his teachings are in the domain of Dany's Parent, with the information Viserys gave her she recorded without questioning or analysis.

[Arya kiddin']

Great essay SeanF. And great follow ups guys. :)

What the chapter seems to be pointing at, rather peculiarly is that the dragon Drogon has perhaps already chosen Daenerys as a rider, a thought Parwan echoes upthread. Ad the dragon is giving Daenerys strength the same way that Summer gives strength to Bran. Summer has yellow eyes shining like a sun, and Drogon's eyes are described as molten magma - pretty nice parallels. :)

Dany's behaviour also looked a little inconstant to me. It's like she is in a fix what she actually wants - on one hand she acknowledges the fact that she is fitting in nicely with the Dothraki, on the other she still considers seven kingdoms as her real home. Contrast:

1. "Not a queen," said Dany. "A khaleesi. "
   
2. She was barefoot, with oiled hair, wearing Dothraki riding leathers and a painted vest given her as a bride gift. She looked as though she belonged here.
   

with

"I pray for home too," she told him, believing it. Ser Jorah laughed. "Look around you then, Khaleesi." But it was not the plains Dany saw then. It was King's Landing and the great Red Keep that Aegon the Conqueror had built. It was Dragonstone where she had been born. In her mind's eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window.

As if despite her enjoying the new life she has, she feels bound by duty to reclaim the home of her ancestors, or is it just longing to see all the places vividly recounted to her by her brother. I'm not so sure.

"And if your brother is the shadow of a snake, what does that make his servants?" His voice was bitter.

All Jorah is doing, he is doing for a royal pardon on Varys' assurance. Clearly it is repulsive for him to be a sworn sword of a person he so blatantly disrespects. Afterwards we learn he actually starts following Daenerys on his own accord, when he comes to have respect for her, and becomes sexually attracted to her.

"My brother will never take back the Seven Kingdoms," Dany said. She had known that for a long time, she realized. She had known it all her life. Only she had never let herself say the words, even in a whisper, but now she said them for Jorah Mormont and all the world to hear.

This realization is very important. The fact that she acknowledges that Viserys is incapable to reclaim their lost legacy is what makes her take the matter into her own hands later. So when she later dreams that Rhaego - and not Viserys would be sitting the iron throne, it stems from this realization, though that is for the next chapter.

.

......Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer, and neither spell-forged steel nor stormsingers nor dragons could hold it back,

There is mention of Valyrian steel, and dragons and stormsingers. I've no idea who stormsingers are - and I'm very reluctant to connect them to the Storm God. Seeing Valyrian steel and dragons both have origins in Valyrian culture, Stormsingers seem to be aeromancers - indulging in kind of Air sorcery. It fits in well with the them too. The Others have magic of the ice, and with them COtF who sing the song of Earth. Contrasting them are Dragons and the element of fire, and stormsingers with magic of air. Just a speculation, but it fits. :lol:

.....the Dothraki believed that all things of importance in a man's life must be done beneath the open sky.....

I've always felt this keeps on repeating for a purpose, maybe an indication for the future. Something important will happen in Vaes Dothrak after ADwD. Execution of Jhaqo, her being declared TStmTW by Dosh Khaleen, I don't know. :dunno:

I have this pet theory, much like the Stark direwolves who sense danger to their masters, Drogon flew back to Meereen to the pit help/rescue Dany and refused to go back with her for similar reasons.

I certainly find this agreeable.

[SeanF]

Many thanks for all your kind words, and the interesting follow-ups.

WRT stormsingers, I imagine that they're sorcerers who can summon, or disperse storms, and use other forms of weather.

[SeanF]

2. The Dothraki (like the Wildings) respect and follow strength. Once Dany started to get stronger and bolder she earns their respect and thus they follow her. You can see this with Jorah as well.

Socially, the Dothraki have little in common with classical Sparta. But, that is a real-life example of a hyper-masculine culture that nonetheless valued strong-willed, and opinionated women. The archetypal Spartan woman was the one who said to her son "With your shield, or on it" (ie, either return victorious from battle, or die honourably). Perhaps Dothraki women adopt a similar attitude towards their sons.

[Gogossos]

Dany's behaviour also looked a little inconstant to me. It's like she is in a fix what she actually wants - on one hand she acknowledges the fact that she is fitting in nicely with the Dothraki, on the other she still considers seven kingdoms as her real home. Contrast:

1. "Not a queen," said Dany. "A khaleesi. "

2. She was barefoot, with oiled hair, wearing Dothraki riding leathers and a painted vest given her as a bride gift. She looked as though she belonged here.

with

"I pray for home too," she told him, believing it. Ser Jorah laughed. "Look around you then, Khaleesi." But it was not the plains Dany saw then. It was King's Landing and the great Red Keep that Aegon the Conqueror had built. It was Dragonstone where she had been born. In her mind's eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window.

As if despite her enjoying the new life she has, she feels bound by duty to reclaim the home of her ancestors, or is it just longing to see all the places vividly recounted to her by her brother. I'm not so sure.

Oooh I love this observation, it's something we'll have to keep an eye on as the chapters roll on. Dany finally feels free, at home with the Dothraki and free from Viserys' influence and she obviously loves it. But like you said, it's as if she's duty bound (now that Viserys obviously can't do it) to reclaim the Iron Throne. And I like your choice of words here, "duty bound", because I believe at this moment in time, free and happy for the first time in her life since the red door, she wouldn't really want to leave. I know the group dynamics will change later on (Mago, anyone?) but given the current set of circumstances, she wouldn't want to go to Westeros. So the thing to keep an eye on as we go on, is whether this feeling of "duty bound" persists or it becomes a true calling, something she really wants. It's fascinating, something we never stop to ponder.

[MoIaF]

I have this pet theory, much like the Stark direwolves who sense danger to their masters, Drogon flew back to Meereen to the pit help/rescue Dany and refused to go back with her for similar reasons.

I agree completely with this - Dany's bond with Drogon is very similar to the Starks bond with their direwolves. In many ways they can sense things their masters cannot, and see trouble ahead (Ghost and Jon).

Drogon knows Dany was in danger and he also knows she doesn't belong in Meereen, it's not where she needs to be. At this point in time she needs to be in the Dothraki Sea and that is where he takes her.

The exile knight looked from Dany to her brother; she barefoot,with dirt between her toes and oil in her hair, he with his silks and steel.

I found this interesting as its almost similar to the comparison of Daario and Hizdahr at the end of ADWD, meaning this is where the author wants Dany to go, rather than being a "Queen" in silks.

Again GRRM makes another distinction in Dany's character:

“You are learning to talk like a queen, Daenerys.” “Not a queen,” said Dany. “A khaleesi.” She wheeled her horse about and galloped down the ridge alone.

I think this quote is very important towards Dany's arc as she later goes on to become a "queen". I think the difference between a queen and a khaleesi is very symbolic in Dany's arc. As I made the distinctions above between her and Viserys and also Hizdahr and Daario and I believe they all point toward the distinction of Queen vs. Khaleesi in Dany's arc.

I think the symbolic difference is that a "Queen" sits back and lets others do things for them vs the Khaleesi symbol which is taking command, being proactive and doing things along side your people more like a leader. This motif is a very important part of Dany's arc, later on we will even see that it is even symbolized as Dany wearing a Dothraki vest in some instances.

The descent was steep and rocky, but Dany rode fearlessly, and the joy and the danger of it were a song in her heart. All her life Viserys had told her she was a princess, but not until she rode her silver had Daenerys Targaryen ever felt like one.

ETA: I don't know if I should call this weird, funny, intriguing or interesting but...

"lemurs with silver fur and huge purple eyes"

The lemurs have Valyrian features? :eek:

Excellent observations, especially the Queen and Khaleesi comparison. In Meereen she tried to be a Queen and we all know how well that worked out for her. When she's amongst the people that's were she trives.

Taking that back to the Drogon conversation he took her away from Meereen (Queen) and brought her back to the Dothraki Sea (Khaleesi).

The ETA is funny... :D

Oooh I love this observation, it's something we'll have to keep an eye on as the chapters roll on. Dany finally feels free, at home with the Dothraki and free from Viserys' influence and she obviously loves it. But like you said, it's as if she's duty bound (now that Viserys obviously can't do it) to reclaim the Iron Throne. And I like your choice of words here, "duty bound", because I believe at this moment in time, free and happy for the first time in her life since the red door, she wouldn't really want to leave. I know the group dynamics will change later on (Mago, anyone?) but given the current set of circumstances, she wouldn't want to go to Westeros. So the thing to keep an eye on as we go on, is whether this feeling of "duty bound" persists or it becomes a true calling, something she really wants. It's fascinating, something we never stop to ponder.

I think for Dany the need to return to Westeros might be a combination of being both duty bound and a need to return / find her home. As AK mentioned above it’s strange that although she is finally happy amongst the Dothraki she still doesn’t see their place as her home. In one of Dany’s later prophetic dreams (I believe while she is healing after she miscarries Rhaego) when the red door opens it opens to what appears to be Westeros. Perhaps subconciously / conciously something is telling her that Westeros is her true home.

"The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

“... the dragon... “

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Dany is thinking about dragons, perhaps starting to look for dragons in a way. Or maybe dragons are seeking her. Or perhaps both. She has the second dragon dream, and the very next day the pain of riding abates. She feels warmth from the dragon eggs. She gets stronger and more confident. Some readers see no magic in this. They maintain that it is just a matter of the young woman adapting to the situation, of her body toughening with experience. I don't accept this view. We have phrases like, "From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it." This phrase has nothing to do with common experience. It strongly indicates some kind of causal links among three factors--the dragon dream, the perception of something other than cold stone in the eggs, and the increasing power and confidence of Daenerys Targaryen.

I wanted to discuss this a little. in the book, during Dany III, Dany feels the warmth of her dragon eggs. This is a warmth only she feels correct? no one else ever mentions feeling the eggs being warmer, right? I am starting to wonder if the dragons, just being in close proximity to the last worthy Targaryen have started to wake up a little inside their eggs?? Maybe her dragon dream, feeling more confident, standing up to her brother, etc., are all a result of baby Drogon stirring in his shell, maybe they are coming to life as one. She is waking from her dreary haze and really starting to see and enjoy her life, while her 'only baby' starts to awake within his egg..... Her connection with her dragons is stronger than many of the Targ/dragon relationships shown in PATQ. Some of the bonds are very strong, but hers is arguably the strongest we have seen. I think this bond with Drogon is the source of her entire 'spark of life', they fuel each others strength. If illyrio had not given her those eggs, things would have gone very different for her IMO. What do you guys think?

[MoIaF]

I wanted to discuss this a little. in the book, during Dany III, Dany feels the warmth of her dragon eggs. This is a warmth only she feels correct? no one else ever mentions feeling the eggs being warmer, right? I am starting to wonder if the dragons, just being in close proximity to the last worthy Targaryen have started to wake up a little inside their eggs?? Maybe her dragon dream, feeling more confident, standing up to her brother, etc., are all a result of baby Drogon stirring in his shell, maybe they are coming to life as one. She is waking from her dreary haze and really starting to see and enjoy her life, while her 'only baby' starts to awake within his egg..... Her connection with her dragons is stronger than many of the Targ/dragon relationships shown in PATQ. Some of the bonds are very strong, but hers is arguably the strongest we have seen. I think this bond with Drogon is the source of her entire 'spark of life', they fuel each others strength. If illyrio had not given her those eggs, things would have gone very different for her IMO. What do you guys think?

There is definitely a connection there – and I like your analogy of the dragons waking at the same time as Dany is “awakening” as a person. It’s as if they are feeding life into each other, which alludes to a very strong bond indeed.

Drogon chose Dany as his rider but I wonder if her other two dragons will stay connected to her once they’ve chosen their riders. There is the “maternal” bond there, hatching and raising them these last few years which no other dragon ride had done.

I also thought this quote was interesting but I don’t know what to make of it. This is when she goes to her tent after traveling.

“Dany saw a finger of dusty red light reach out to touch her dragon’s eggs across the tent. For an instant a thousand droplets of scarlet flame swam before her eyes. She blinked, and they were gone.”

[Parwan]

There is definitely a connection there – and I like your analogy of the dragons waking at the same time as Dany is “awakening” as a person. It’s as if they are feeding life into each other, which alludes to a very strong bond indeed.

...

Above, I said, " Another view is that something reaches out to the young lady and eventually gets through to her." The opinion expressed by all who have replied to my point is that this view is correct. Furthermore, the "something" is identified as dragons. That seems pretty likely to me. Two more points:

1. Yes, only Dany feels this warmth. Furthermore, it is very much a feeling, or a response to a message, or a magical connection, some such thing. It is not a matter of logic, simple observation, or careful systematic analysis. In her more common-sense thoughts, Dany thinks that the rocks are just rocks, and that her feelings were probably only misperceptions. Maybe, for example, the things were only warm because they had been in the sun.

2. Whatever is happening appears to me to come from a very deep source. In the analysis of Daenerys II, under the heading "The big ticket items,"Maester of Ice and Fire said, "Illyrios gift is quite extravagant and we are told extremely valuable. He claims the fossilized dragon eggs come from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai. I see no reason to doubt this claim..." I believe this to be the best way of looking at the matter, and the conclusion is important. Dany didn't actually receive "eggs" as a wedding present. She got fossils. The dragons that laid the original eggs were not Targaryen beasts. In fact, they lived at a time when no one even thought about Valyria as a possible future, if there were even people alive to think about the future. The dragons that are reaching out to the young khaleesi came from the far past indeed. It seems that Daenerys is reaching back to her roots to contact things that first contacted her ancestors.

We don't know that Illyrio was telling the truth, and we may never have definite information on the matter. It's clear, however, that everyone takes him at his word. Neither Jorah, nor Viserys, nor anyone else ever gives an indication that Dany's presents were anything but fossils. Dany herself regards them that way when she is in her everyday, common-sense mode.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Above, I said, " Another view is that something reaches out to the young lady and eventually gets through to her." The opinion expressed by all who have replied to my point is that this view is correct. Furthermore, the "something" is identified as dragons. That seems pretty likely to me. Two more points:

1. Yes, only Dany feels this warmth. Furthermore, it is very much a feeling, or a response to a message, or a magical connection, some such thing. It is not a matter of logic, simple observation, or careful systematic analysis. In her more common-sense thoughts, Dany thinks that the rocks are just rocks, and that her feelings were probably only misperceptions. Maybe, for example, the things were only warm because they had been in the sun.

2. Whatever is happening appears to me to come from a very deep source. In the analysis of Daenerys II, under the heading "The big ticket items,"Maester of Ice and Fire said, "Illyrios gift is quite extravagant and we are told extremely valuable. He claims the fossilized dragon eggs come from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai. I see no reason to doubt this claim..." I believe this to be the best way of looking at the matter, and the conclusion is important. Dany didn't actually receive "eggs" as a wedding present. She got fossils. The dragons that laid the original eggs were not Targaryen beasts. In fact, they lived at a time when no one even thought about Valyria as a possible future, if there were even people alive to think about the future. The dragons that are reaching out to the young khaleesi came from the far past indeed. It seems that Daenerys is reaching back to her roots to contact things that first contacted her ancestors.

We don't know that Illyrio was telling the truth, and we may never have definite information on the matter. It's clear, however, that everyone takes him at his word. Neither Jorah, nor Viserys, nor anyone else ever gives an indication that Dany's presents were anything but fossils. Dany herself regards them that way when she is in her everyday, common-sense mode.

.....Wow. You know I never thought about that before. 'Fossil' doesn't apply to an egg that's 50-100 years old, they are ancient eggs. No chance of life within them whatsoever. They are not related to any of the Dragons in PATQ. They are older, much older and not from the same lands as all the other dragons we have met. Which would explain why they are so big and healthy, not like the dying breed hold up at KL. This sheds a completely different light on the Pyre, I don't know why I hadn't ever really looked at this side of it before........DOn't you all agree that no other Targaryen could have felt the warmth in the eggs?? It had to be Dany, for instance Viserys could have never felt warmth in those eggs, could have never brought them to life....... I think Dany is a worthy, perhaps reincarnated member of her ancient race. I think there have been very few Targaryens we have met who would fit into this description.....Something is beyond special about her. She is like an idea of a human brought to life by the Gods, seen on Earth through their eyes of what a perfect person would be (not to say everything she chooses in life is perfect) but something along the lines of The Fifth Element. she is elevated among the human race.......you guys get what I mean?