Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part I: AGoT

[Annara Snow]

It's also interesting to note that Jorah blames Ned for his exile, rarely if ever he takes responsibility for his actions and yet he never blames Daenerys when he is exiled once again. Could it be because he loves her or because he has grown as a person, who knows.

Good job again, Maester of Ice and Fire

Viserys continues to be an Aerion Brightflame, a spoiled, over-entitled, half-mad dumbass. Dany finally manages to fight back against Viserys, and stand up for herself without aid from anyone else.

We also see Jorah portray Ned in a negative light, telling Dany that Ned had driven him from his home, when Jorah had broken the law that has roots in both the Old Gods and the Seven in regarding slavery as an abomination. I think this is to set Dany against the Starks further story-wise.

Jorah comes off as very unsympathetic here. Not only does he show no remorse at all for his crime, and slams Ned Stark for punishing him for it, but he talks as if it as absurd for Ned to punish him for selling a few "lice-ridden poachers" into slavery. These men were not murderers or rapists or child abusers, but Jorah talks about them with contempt and considers them worthless, because they were poor people who didn't have the comforts he did and who poached because they needed to eat. While Jorah was wasting his gold on trying to buy his young wife's love (though Dany learns this part later), and eventually resorting to selling those people for the same purpose.

It's astonishing to me that I didn't notice this the first time I was reading AGOT. Maybe we, as readers, are influenced by Dany's POV and her positive view of Jorah as a protective older male figure who gives her good advice (I've previously noted the superficial similarities in the way she describes him and William Darry). I guess it's not surprising that 14-year old Dany, who still didn't have a fully formed opinion about slavery, doesn't pay attention to what he's talking about - I wonder if she'd give it some thought if she heard the story now.

It's also deeply ironic that Jorah is talking to Dany, future "Breaker of Chains" and slamming Ned for punishing a slaver and upholding the law against slavery. However, I don't think Dany held any hatred for Ned as a result of this. When she refers to Ned Stark unfavorably in ADWD, while Barristan is speaking in his defense, it's because she considers him one of "Usurper's dogs" that she collectively blames for the deaths of her family members and her family's exile. I don't think that Ned's history with Jorah comes into it at all.

I'm not sure that Jorah had undergone any growth when we first see him in ADWD, and for the first half of his arc in that book. He would, of course, see the woman he's in love with differently than he sees other people; but his idea of making it up to her and getting back to her good graces is to capture Tyrion and dragged him to Dany in chains; not exactly a sign of character growth. However, the irony of ending up as a slave himself will hopefully lead to some soul-searching and positive change.

Thankfully we had the greatness that was Maester Aemon.

Maester Aemon was indeed awesome, my favorite minor character in the series.

Even worse when you realise she's seeing Quentyn as a rival, and sort of hoping he won't return from Meereen.

I agree with MoIaF that Arianne is projecting. But, in her defense, it's not surprising that she doesn't have close sisterly feelings for Quentyn. The lived apart since a pretty young age, with him being fostered with the Yronwoods, so she couldn't develop a real sibling relationship with him. While Dany has very complicated and strong feelings for Viserys, since he was her only family and she lived with him all her life, and was also abused by him, Arianne is practically indifferent to him. She has much closer relationships with her cousins and the other young women and men that she grew up with. The Sand Snakes are like sisters to her.

Also I noticed the Dothraki's relationship towards their horses are similar to the Valyrians and their dragons.

I wonder if it's a cultural influence.

Isn't it really weird that they also eat horses, as their main source of food, no less? Usually there is a taboo against eating the animals that are held in high esteem in a particular culture, or that are treated almost as close companions (the khals seem to have more respect for them than for their wives!).

A few other observations:

- Although Dany took more control in her sex life with Drogo, in this chapter we learn that she sometimes gets too exhausted by having sex with him, since he is particularly aroused by her pregnancy and wants her very often. Dany's level of control doesn't seem to include being able to say 'no' at any time when Drogo wants sex.

- Drogo being so aroused by Dany's pregnancy may support the theory that the possibility of her giving him a strong son of Valyrian blood was one of the things that he found so appealing about her in the first place.

- Viserys can sometimes be unintentionally (on his part, not GRRM's) hilarious. It was funny when he wondered if the Dothraki like to have sex with their horses; and am I the only one who found it hilarious when, in this chapter, he went to inspect closely the statue of a woman with six breasts and a ferret head? Somehow I don't think it was for its artistic or cultural merits... :lol:

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Jorah comes off as very unsympathetic here. Not only does he show no remorse at all for his crime, and slams Ned Stark for punishing him for it, but he talks as if it as absurd for Ned to punish him for selling a few "lice-ridden poachers" into slavery. These men were not murderers or rapists or child abusers, but Jorah talks about them with contempt and considers them worthless, because they were poor people who didn't have the comforts he did and who poached because they needed to eat. While Jorah was wasting his gold on trying to buy his young wife's love (though Dany learns this part later), and eventually resorting to selling those people for the same purpose.

It's astonishing to me that I didn't notice this the first time I was reading AGOT. Maybe we, as readers, are influenced by Dany's POV and her positive view of Jorah as a protective older male figure who gives her good advice (I've previously noted the superficial similarities in the way she describes him and William Darry). I guess it's not surprising that 14-year old Dany, who still didn't have a fully formed opinion about slavery, doesn't pay attention to what he's talking about - I wonder if she'd give it some thought if she heard the story now.

It's also deeply ironic that Jorah is talking to Dany, future "Breaker of Chains" and slamming Ned for punishing a slaver and upholding the law against slavery. However, I don't think Dany held any hatred for Ned as a result of this. When she refers to Ned Stark unfavorably in ADWD, while Barristan is speaking in his defense, it's because she considers him one of "Usurper's dogs" that she collectively blames for the deaths of her family members and her family's exile. I don't think that Ned's history with Jorah comes into it at all.

I'm not sure that Jorah had undergone any growth when we first see him in ADWD, and for the first half of his arc in that book. He would, of course, see the woman he's in love with differently than he sees other people; but his idea of making it up to her and getting back to her good graces is to capture Tyrion and dragged him to Dany in chains; not exactly a sign of character growth. However, the irony of ending up as a slave himself will hopefully lead to some soul-searching and positive change.

Maester Aemon was indeed awesome, my favorite minor character in the series.

I agree with MoIaF that Arianne is projecting. But, in her defense, it's not surprising that she doesn't have close sisterly feelings for Quentyn. The lived apart since a pretty young age, with him being fostered with the Yronwoods, so she couldn't develop a real sibling relationship with him. While Dany has very complicated and strong feelings for Viserys, since he was her only family and she lived with him all her life, and was also abused by him, Arianne is practically indifferent to him. She has much closer relationships with her cousins and the other young women and men that she grew up with. The Sand Snakes are like sisters to her.

Isn't it really weird that they also eat horses, as their main source of food, no less? Usually there is a taboo against eating the animals that are held in high esteem in a particular culture, or that are treated almost as close companions (the khals seem to have more respect for them than for their wives!).

A few other observations:

- Although Dany took more control in her sex life with Drogo, in this chapter we learn that she sometimes gets too exhausted by having sex with him, since he is particularly aroused by her pregnancy and wants her very often. Dany's level of control doesn't seem to include being able to say 'no' at any time when Drogo wants sex.

- Drogo being so aroused by Dany's pregnancy may support the theory that the possibility of her giving him a strong son of Valyrian blood was one of the things that he found so appealing about her in the first place.

- Viserys can sometimes be unintentionally (on his part, not GRRM's) hilarious. It was funny when he wondered if the Dothraki like to have sex with their horses; and am I the only one who found it hilarious when, in this chapter, he went to inspect closely the statue of a woman with six breasts and a ferret head? Somehow I don't think it was for its artistic or cultural merits... :lol:

I LIke what you are saying here. Jorah is definitely, IMO, a 'grey' character. He has some good deeds, mixed in with some bad morals. However I will give him that he is a practical guy with a lot of common sense. he often councils Dany with the most sensible thing to do at that moment. And I do believe, especially in GOT he does want to at least keep her safe in the Dothraki sea. Even though he is off writing sneaky letters to gain his own redemption i don't believe he desires anything bad to happen to her, that being said, I absolutely agree his moral compass is not pointing north. also later on in GOT he tells Dany they would be better off selling the slaves they capture in Slaver's bay, which Dany at this point knows nothing about really. Obviously later on she would have gotten very upset if he had suggested this.

The reason I tolerate him is because I haven't figured him out yet. he is very reserved and has done some reprehensible things, but obviously he saved Dany from the poison which gives him some brownie points, but that only goes so far. I am actually starting to wonder if he didnt know that was going to happen before hand.....But that was not the only instance he saved her, without him as a guard she would have probably been injured or killed several times. I guess I like his physical loyalty to her, his willingness to get injured to protect her, but what else is good about him??? He is Lord Mormonts son and members of his family seem to be trustworthy characters, but of course he was kicked out of his family......I always thought when reading he would be Dany's trail to Jon somehow since Lord Mormont mentioned him to Jon, but we will have to see.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Thankfully we had the greatness that was Maester Aemon.

Also......Duh....obviously there is Jon, although it's not proven yet, think about all the differences between Jon and Viserys, his (supposed) uncle. That is the ultimate perfect example of how every situation comes down to the individual and not the family name.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think her dream is like a victim of child abuse blaming herself for the abuse which she suffered. And then, blaming herself for the abuser having lost his life.

:bowdown: Thats an excellent way to put it.

Excellent comparison.

In the series we begin to see how both these institutions have begun to erode. First with Jaime killing King Aerys (for the greater good) then with Drogo's bloodriders choosing to stay alive after his death.

I think this is perhaps due to culture changes that happen with time, it's quite common in our own cultures.

Thats really true, also Dany will go on to be the first female with bloodriders another theme of change on culture.

Also, this chapter has alot of info on the Dothraki culture and I wonder if part of the valyrians culture passed on to the Dothraki just like everyone in Essos.

There is the point of one person per mount, they don't build but let slaves build for them and also they burn people in a pyre at death just like the Valyrians.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Isn't it really weird that they also eat horses, as their main source of food, no less? Usually there is a taboo against eating the animals that are held in high esteem in a particular culture, or that are treated almost as close companions (the khals seem to have more respect for them than for their wives!).

Yea thats weird :lol:, I think another angle to look at it to make it less weird is that they eat horses because they believe it would make them more powerful, since horses are the "it" thing in their society. Just like when Dany ate the heart.

[SeanF]

:bowdown: Thats an excellent way to put it.

.

Thanks. If I were having the dream, I think I'd be telling him he brought his death on himself. She, though, is just so apologetic.

This is an issue where she needs someone giving her a blunt talking-too.

On reflection, this seems more important to me than her learning about her father. She simply *isn't* to blame for her brother's death.

[Parwan]

This chapter introduced us to the Dothraki blood riders which I believe can be compared to the kings guard in some ways.

Bloodriders

Kingsguard

I think the main difference, is that the KG seem bound more to a political law and the bloodriders seem bound by a ancient/religious/superstitious law.

And I think thats what brings about the differences of the two. Due to bloodriders being bound to a more religious sort of vow they are bound to be more loyal, as they are made bloodriders even from birth.

The KG is more political and therefore more flexible, changes of a dynasty for example would allow a KG to switch allegiances whiles a bloodrider will choose to follow the khal into death.

In a case where a king or khal dies the reactions of both parties are different, the KG will see it as a responsibility to protect the heir but bloodriders will probably follow the khal into death, or avenge his killer before going into death.

The two forms of bodyguards are massively different and if you substitute some of their places in the story it makes a big difference, For example if Drogo had KG rather then bloodriders they wouldn't go against Daenerys when she tried to used MMD to save Drogo as she is part of his "royal family". Another example to switch is if Aerys had bloodriders, he wouldn't have gotten killed by them and if Joffrey had bloodriders Cersei wouldn't be able to fire them.

So I believe the 2 have both advantages and disadvantages, and would serve well in different situations.

...

In my opinion, there is another very important difference. The khal and his bloodriders have a reciprocal arrangement. There are obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, the vows taken by the Kingsguard, like a lot of vows in taken in the seven kingdoms, are essentially promises of slavish devotion.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

In my opinion, there is another very important difference. The khal and his bloodriders have a reciprocal arrangement. There are obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, the vows taken by the Kingsguard, like a lot of vows in taken in the seven kingdoms, are essentially promises of slavish devotion.

I agree I forgot to mention that, and it is a really important point.

A khal and his bloodriders are more like brothers, they share food etc., whiles a KG I agree is almost like a slave.

[DragonDreamer]

In my opinion, there is another very important difference. The khal and his bloodriders have a reciprocal arrangement. There are obligations on both sides. Unfortunately, the vows taken by the Kingsguard, like a lot of vows in taken in the seven kingdoms, are essentially promises of slavish devotion.

That's an important destination, however, if I read correctly the bloodriders come into the service of the young khalakka in a similar manner than kingsguards come into the service of young princes. That is they are assigned to the service of the khalakka / princess by the Khals and kings.

If I have understood the text correct though the difference is that once the bloodriders have been assigned to the service of the khalakka they are then bonded to them for life with no blood ties to the khal (at least not in the same level of the khalakka).

They might grow up together and treat each other as brother but there is still a hierarchical difference between the Khal and his bloodriders.

ETA: I,couldn't remember the word khalakka so I looked online and found this awesome English to Dothraki dictionary: http://docs.dothraki.org/ikarhtoD.pdf

[Parwan]

That's an important destination, however, if I read correctly the bloodriders come into the service of the young khalakka in a similar manner than kingsguards come into the service of young princes. That is they are assigned to the service of the khalakka / princess by the Khals and kings.

If I have understood the text correct though the difference is that once the bloodriders have been assigned to the service of the khalakka they are then bonded to them for life with no blood ties to the khal (at least not in the same level of the khalakka).

They might grow up together and treat each other as brother but there is still a hierarchical difference between the Khal and his bloodriders.

ETA: I,couldn't remember the word khalakka so I looked online and found this awesome English to Dothraki dictionary: http://docs.dothraki.org/ikarhtoD.pdf

Oh, there is no doubt that both systems are hierarchical. As Ser Jorah says, "A lesser man may beg a favor from a khal, but must never presume to berate him." There is also an hereditary aspect to rule in both cases. The big difference is one that goes across the two societies. It applies to more than the kings and khals, but is perhaps most prominent with those two people. A khal has to earn his place, and he has to keep earning it: A khal who cannot ride is no khal. There is no similar requirement for a king. A king can be completely off his rocker, the sort of man who would be declared criminally insane in most societies. He's still the king. With Robert's Rebellion, we didn't have anything that I would consider the deposing of a leader for cause, something that might go along with a political theory and be considered a precedent. Instead, it was more of a Freudian "kill the father"* sort of thing. The great man becomes so unreasonably violent, such a direct threat, that you have to take action to protect yourself. You succeed and the guy is killed, but you feel horribly guilty afterward. You are harshly critical of the fellow who actually got rid of the leader. You establish a new leader who is as close to the old one as possible.

........................................................

* Of course, this is only a very general sort of comparison. I'm not saying that RR can be explained in terms of the Oedipus complex.

[MoIaF]

Jorah comes off as very unsympathetic here. Not only does he show no remorse at all for his crime, and slams Ned Stark for punishing him for it, but he talks as if it as absurd for Ned to punish him for selling a few "lice-ridden poachers" into slavery. These men were not murderers or rapists or child abusers, but Jorah talks about them with contempt and considers them worthless, because they were poor people who didn't have the comforts he did and who poached because they needed to eat. While Jorah was wasting his gold on trying to buy his young wife's love (though Dany learns this part later), and eventually resorting to selling those people for the same purpose.

It's astonishing to me that I didn't notice this the first time I was reading AGOT. Maybe we, as readers, are influenced by Dany's POV and her positive view of Jorah as a protective older male figure who gives her good advice (I've previously noted the superficial similarities in the way she describes him and William Darry). I guess it's not surprising that 14-year old Dany, who still didn't have a fully formed opinion about slavery, doesn't pay attention to what he's talking about - I wonder if she'd give it some thought if she heard the story now.

It's also deeply ironic that Jorah is talking to Dany, future "Breaker of Chains" and slamming Ned for punishing a slaver and upholding the law against slavery. However, I don't think Dany held any hatred for Ned as a result of this. When she refers to Ned Stark unfavorably in ADWD, while Barristan is speaking in his defense, it's because she considers him one of "Usurper's dogs" that she collectively blames for the deaths of her family members and her family's exile. I don't think that Ned's history with Jorah comes into it at all.

I'm not sure that Jorah had undergone any growth when we first see him in ADWD, and for the first half of his arc in that book. He would, of course, see the woman he's in love with differently than he sees other people; but his idea of making it up to her and getting back to her good graces is to capture Tyrion and dragged him to Dany in chains; not exactly a sign of character growth. However, the irony of ending up as a slave himself will hopefully lead to some soul-searching and positive change.

Maester Aemon was indeed awesome, my favorite minor character in the series.

I agree with MoIaF that Arianne is projecting. But, in her defense, it's not surprising that she doesn't have close sisterly feelings for Quentyn. The lived apart since a pretty young age, with him being fostered with the Yronwoods, so she couldn't develop a real sibling relationship with him. While Dany has very complicated and strong feelings for Viserys, since he was her only family and she lived with him all her life, and was also abused by him, Arianne is practically indifferent to him. She has much closer relationships with her cousins and the other young women and men that she grew up with. The Sand Snakes are like sisters to her.

Isn't it really weird that they also eat horses, as their main source of food, no less? Usually there is a taboo against eating the animals that are held in high esteem in a particular culture, or that are treated almost as close companions (the khals seem to have more respect for them than for their wives!).

A few other observations:

- Although Dany took more control in her sex life with Drogo, in this chapter we learn that she sometimes gets too exhausted by having sex with him, since he is particularly aroused by her pregnancy and wants her very often. Dany's level of control doesn't seem to include being able to say 'no' at any time when Drogo wants sex.

- Drogo being so aroused by Dany's pregnancy may support the theory that the possibility of her giving him a strong son of Valyrian blood was one of the things that he found so appealing about her in the first place.

- Viserys can sometimes be unintentionally (on his part, not GRRM's) hilarious. It was funny when he wondered if the Dothraki like to have sex with their horses; and am I the only one who found it hilarious when, in this chapter, he went to inspect closely the statue of a woman with six breasts and a ferret head? Somehow I don't think it was for its artistic or cultural merits... :lol:

Great post, thank you Annara!! :D

Jorah is a complicated character - he is immensely useful to Dany but he also has a great deal of faults. I'm with you in that his inability at least till now to realize the magnetite of his mistakes is very off putting. I really do hope he does grow after his experience as a slave as I think he could be helpful to Dany when she is in Westeros.

I totally noticed how Viserys went after the six-breasted woman. Sometimes he is so cartoonishly ridiculous. I can just see him now trotting to the statue staring up at her....

[MoIaF]

AGOT - Daenerys V

A Golden Crown for a Silver Prince

SUMMARY

The chapter begins with the ceremonial eating of a stallions heart to make her son strong and swift. Dany has been preparing for days with the help of her handmaidens in order to be able to eat the heart without gagging or throwing up. She has starved herself for a day in preparation. Drogo and his bloodriders have cut out the wild stallions heart using stone knives as steal is not allowed in Vaes Dothrak. The stallion heart is tough with muscle but Dany manages to successfully eat it all without incident.

Once she has rated the stallion heart she declares the "a prince rides inside me". One of the crones of the dosh khaleen, a small woman with only one eye peers into the smoke of the future and declares that Dany son (who Dany has named Rhaego) is the Stallion the Mounts the World.

After the ceremony everyone heads to the Womb of the World (beneath the Mother of Mountains) so that Dany can cleanse herself of the stallion’s blood. When Dany emerges from the water Drogo gets aroused and takes her right there. Afterwards Drogo requests their horses and they all head over the celebrate at Khal Drogo’s hall for the occasion.

Once at the hall Dany searches for Viserys (who was not at the ceremony) but cannot find him. She find Ser Jorah and asks him to join her at her table. Ser Jorah then informs Dany that Viserys went to the Western Market in search of wine and perhaps sellswords for his army, he also informs Dany that Viserys had intended to steal her dragon eggs to pay for the army. At first Dany is outrage but when she realizes how useful they could be to Viserys she says that he can have them if he wants them.

Viserys finally arrives at the celebration - drunk and with a sword Dany quickly sends Ser Jorah to him to bring him to her before the Dothraki do something to him because he brought and eventually pulled out a sword. Viserys is acting petulant with Ser Jorah and begins to make his way to the high table where Khal Drogo and the other khals are sitting. Drogo informs him that he belongs at the back with the you, old, dimwitted and crippled. He mocks him as the Cart King and Swore foot king. Viserys grows more peculate and pulls out it sword, and makes his way to Dany. He threatens to cut off her child and take her away from Khal Drogo if he is not given his army and his golden crown. Dany is forced to translate this to Khal Drogo. Drogo then proceeds to have Viserys apprehended and melts the golden medallion belt he was wearing, once melted he gives Viserys a golden crown.

OBSERVATIONS

• If Dany had not been able to finish eating the stallion hear one of the "negative" consequences would have been that the child might turn out to be a girl.
  
• Even though woman seem to be second class citizens in Dothraki culture the crones of the dosh khaleen are treated with reverence. In fact they lead the procession to the Womb of the World.
  
• Dany laments her brother preferring the company of traders to her own.
  
• We learn that there are other ways to kill in Vaes Dothraki without spilling blood. Dany mentions it when she tells of the eunuchs using silk ribbons to strangle people.
  

ANALYSIS

The Stallion Who Mounts The World

The prophecy of the Stallion Who Mounts The World is an ancient prophecy which states:

“As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name.” The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. “The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world.”

We are not told the specifics of the process and prophecy but apparently the khaleesis undergo a ritual in which she must eat the heart of a wild stallion. If she is able to eat the entire heart without throwing it up they’ll have a strong and fierce son. The crones of Vaes Dothraki then look into the smoke of the future to determine whether or not the particular khalakka is the prophesied prince.

Dany practiced for days “she [Dany] had dined on bowls of half-clotted blood to accustom herself to the taste, and Irri made her chew strips of dried horseflesh until her jaws were aching.” We have see throughout the last three chapters that Dany has immerse herself in the Dothraki culture. This moment is her crowning moment, she embodies a true khaleesi, better than that she appears to be carrying in her womb the prophesies Dothraki leader.

Something peculiar that I notices was that although woman are almost considered second class citizens in Dothraki culture the crones are looked upon with reverence and they are feared as well:

“Even a khal as mighty as Drogo could know fear when the dosh khaleen peered into smoke of the future.”

“Even the mightiest of khals bowed to the wisdom and authority of the dosh khaleen.”

The Dothraki for all the fury and fight seems to me to be very superstitious. The authority of the crones seems to be something that even the “mightiest of khans” would bow down to.

As for the prophecy there are couple of things I want to note. First is the manner in which the crone looked at Dany while retelling the prophecy:

“The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid.”

Second is Ser Jorah’s description of the prophecy:

“The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd.”

The Stallion is referred to as prince and this prince was promised by ancient prophecy. To me there is an obvious connection with the Prince the was Promised prophecy. Both of these prophecies probably originated in Essos and most likely share a common root with the Azor Ahai prophecy. To end I believe that when the crone looked in the fire she actually saw Dany, being a patriarchal society she interpreted it as it being Dany’s son instead.

There is an interesting breakdown of the prophecy in comparison to Dany that PatrickStormborn did:

• “As swift as the wind he rides” - “Tell Khal Drogo he has given me the wind”

• “Fierce as a storm” - Daenerys Stormborn

• “Their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief” - The wives of the 163 Great Masters she crucified

• “Milk men in the stone tents will fear his name” - Milk Men are the Qartheen, who fear her after she burned the Undying

oh and coincidentally daenerys is currently reunited with one half of drogo’s khalasar… and the official lands of ice and fire maps by grrm show that she is faced directly towards vaes dothrak, where the undying prophesised this would occur:

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.”

A Cleansing Bath

After the ceremony a procession headed by the dosh khaleen head over to the Womb of the World were Dany takes a cleansing bath to wash away the horse blood. I wondered: if only men are allowed on the Mother of Mountains, are only woman allowed in the Womb of the World?

As Dany leaves the water naked Khal Drogo is aroused and takes her right there and then. I have to say that I wasn’t quite uncomfortable with the scene. It’s not the sexuality that bothered me but that I feel that whatever Drogo’s feelings for Dany are, he still treats her like an object. She’s his to do with what he wants, when he wants it. Annara Snow mentioned this in her recap of the last chapter, that whatever power Dany has she still doesn’t have the power to say no to him.

The Beggar King

Once the activities of the Womb of the World were completed everyone headed to Khal Drogo’s hall for the celebration. When Daenerys entered the hall she started looking for her brother (who did not attend the STMTW ceremony):

“Viserys should have been conspicuous with his pale skin, silvery hair, and beggar’s rags”

After all this time Viserys has learned nothing, still wearing his city clothes because he thinks they are better. Viserys has not arrived yet but Dany sees Ser Jorah and calls him to her table. He informs her that Viserys went to the Western Marker to find wine and that he had intended to step Dany’s dragon eggs before Ser Jorah stopped him.

At first Dany is outraged, she feels protective of the eggs, however, when Jorah explains how much manpower the eggs can buy for Viserys Dany agrees that he can have them , all he needs is to ask. Dany explains to Ser Jorah why Viserys is important to her, in the end he was all she had for most of her life, however, Ser Jorah reminds her that now she has the Dothraki as well.

Even now (ADWD) Dany is unable to let it go, she still feels some need to justify her brothers actions because he was the only one who took care of her.

The man who had been her brother

This is the last straw for Khal Drogo, Viserys behavior at the celebration crossed many lines, not only did he bring a blade and pulled it out, he threaten his and Dany’s unborn child. Drogo goes on to give the silver prince is crowned with gold.

A few things to discussed:

Dany is forced to translate what her brother says to Drogo. Firstly, there are others amongst the crowd who speak the Common Tongue so she cannot lie. Secondly, Jhiqui was asked to translate but she feared that if she did it would be a “shoot the messenger citation” so Dany did it. She was basically forced to sentenced her own brother to death. At this point Dany begins to call her brother “the man who had been her brother” (she call him this four times). She knew that his life had already been forfeited.

I found it really sad when Dany noted:

“Viserys smiled and lowered his sword. That was the saddest thing, the thing that tore at her afterward … the way he smiled.”

It shows how oblivious Viserys is, even at that moment, he still doesn’t recognize that he is about to die, that what he did is unforgivable. He believes himself invisible because he’s the king, because he’s the dragon.

Dany’s reaction at the end when she is strangely calm is one of shock - to see that it would shock anyone, imagine having to see your brother die like that. I believe her statement at the end: ”He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon.” was a sort of comprehension that all the bullshit he had fed her was untrue (in this manner), she had recognize it before but that was last proof. It’s also an untrue statement and Targaryens are not immune to fire.

CONCLUSION

This was a very good chapter. We got additional history from the Dothraki and we sadly saw the death of Dany’s last(?) blood relative. Dany continues to show her growth, her ability to immersed herself in Dothraki culture, her compassion for her brother even though he threaten to cut her child from her belly. This kind of compassion and empathy is something we’ll continue to see from Dany, I believe it’s something innate in her.

[SeanF]

Many thanks.

I think I agree that Dany is to be the Stallion that Mounts the World, a kind of female Genghis Khan. We'll have to wait and see if that's good or bad news for the rest of the World. Even if she can maintain her anti-slavery stance, the men who fight for her will surely be expecting some sort of reward, be it lands, wealth, or women.

WRT Viserys, well we've already discussed how he threw his life away. His behaviour is scarcely believable, except that people who are blinded by arrogance can behave like this. I remember being delighted when he got his crown of gold, when reading this for the first time (I'm slightly more sympathetic now, but not much). It was also the point when I realised just how good a book AGOT is. The scene is so well-written and tense.

One historical parallel leads us back to Genghis Khan. He executed the governor of Otrar, who'd murdered his envoys, by pouring molten silver over his head.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

<snip>

Great job again MOIAF!!!

I agree with everything you said.

Another interesting thing I noted was on Viserys getting the sword from Illyrio.

He waved the sword over his head, the borrowed blade that Magister Illyrio had given him to make him seem more kingly.

I wonder whether Illyrio gave him the sword to increase the probability of him doing something crazy at Vaes Dothrak. And it actually did make him more kingly, a king with a molten crown.

Also I think there was foreshadowing of Dany being the moon that will crack from this quote.

The moon floated on the still black waters, shattering and re-forming as her ripples washed over it.

I also like this part of your essay.

Something peculiar that I notices was that although woman are almost considered second class citizens in Dothraki culture the crones are looked upon with reverence and they are feared as well:

“Even a khal as mighty as Drogo could know fear when the dosh khaleen peered into smoke of the future.”

“Even the mightiest of khals bowed to the wisdom and authority of the dosh khaleen.”

The Dothraki for all the fury and fight seems to me to be very superstitious. The authority of the crones seems to be something that even the “mightiest of khans” would bow down to.

I think this is very relevant. The dosh khaleen have more power than khals even though they are women. There is alot of evidence of TSTWMW pointing toward Dany. I think if she is TSTWMW there is a possibility she will eventually join the Dosh khaleen, but will be given a more elevated position (such as their head) hence them bowing to her in the undying vision and I think through that she could get absolute authority over the khals, alongside her dragon showing her strength, cause I am sure some khals will still go against her even if she has a dragon because of her gender.

[Annara Snow]

ANALYSIS

The Stallion Who Mounts The World

The prophecy of the Stallion Who Mounts The World is an ancient prophecy which states:

“As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name.” The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. “The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world.”

We are not told the specifics of the process and prophecy but apparently the khaleesis undergo a ritual in which she must eat the heart of a wild stallion. If she is able to eat the entire heart without throwing it up they’ll have a strong and fierce son. The crones of Vaes Dothraki then look into the smoke of the future to determine whether or not the particular khalakka is the prophesied prince.

Dany practiced for days “she [Dany] had dined on bowls of half-clotted blood to accustom herself to the taste, and Irri made her chew strips of dried horseflesh until her jaws were aching.” We have see throughout the last three chapters that Dany has immerse herself in the Dothraki culture. This moment is her crowning moment, she embodies a true khaleesi, better than that she appears to be carrying in her womb the prophesies Dothraki leader.

Something peculiar that I notices was that although woman are almost considered second class citizens in Dothraki culture the crones are looked upon with reverence and they are feared as well:

“Even a khal as mighty as Drogo could know fear when the dosh khaleen peered into smoke of the future.”

“Even the mightiest of khals bowed to the wisdom and authority of the dosh khaleen.”

As for the prophecy there are couple of things I want to note. First is the manner in which the crone looked at Dany while retelling the prophecy:

“The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid.”

Second is Ser Jorah’s description of the prophecy:

“The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd.”

The Stallion is referred to as prince and this prince was promised by ancient prophecy. To me there is an obvious connection with the Prince the was Promised prophecy. Both of these prophecies probably originated in Essos and most likely share a common root with the Azor Ahai prophecy. To end I believe that when the crone looked in the fire she actually saw Dany, being a patriarchal society she interpreted it as it being Dany’s son instead.

I'm not sure if that's the case. Dany saw Rhaego - a man with copper skin and silver hair, leading an army, with burning cities behind him, in her dream while she was in fever after her stillbirth; and she saw the same vision as one of the "daughter of death" visions in the House of the Undying. Those seem to be the visions of what could have been if Rhaego had been born alive, if MMD had not performed the blood magic ritual to revive Drogo. This may have been what the one-eyed crone saw. The vision in THOTH suggests that the future is not set in stone; the prophecies and visions may refer to just one possible future, which was likely to happen at the time, but that was changed by MMD. If Rhaego had been born alive, Dany would have probably never hatched her dragons, nor would she become a leader herself - she may have even ended up in Dosh Khaleen, or at best, she may have become an a counselor/advisor to her son the way Catelyn was to Robb. But with Rhaego dead, Dany's path became a different one; she was 'reborn' in the fire, hatched her dragons, and became a leader and ruler in her own right.

The Dothraki for all the fury and fight seems to me to be very superstitious. The authority of the crones seems to be something that even the “mightiest of khans” would bow down to.

Although probably unintentional, it's a very appropriate typo. :)

As Dany leaves the water naked Khal Drogo is aroused and takes her right there and then. I have to say that I wasn’t quite uncomfortable with the scene. It’s not the sexuality that bothered me but that I feel that whatever Drogo’s feelings for Dany are, he still treats her like an object. She’s his to do with what he wants, when he wants it. Annara Snow mentioned this in her recap of the last chapter, that whatever power Dany has she still doesn’t have the power to say no to him.

That scene is quite funny in a way - it literally describes the sex act as "three strikes and he was finished". It was once brought up in a thread about sex in ASOAIF as an example of bad sex - Drogo doesn't come off as a good lover, for sure! But Dany doesn't think in those terms - she looks at Drogo with almost adoring eyes at this point and doesn't seem to have a problem with their sex life, but she doesn't know any different. This is something that will come up in the next chapter as well - both times sex between Dany and Drogo is described in terms of Drogo "taking his pleasure". Which wouldn't be such a problem if there were some occasions when Dany's pleasure was mentioned, but there aren't. It's something I didn't even take notice of the first time I read the book, probably because of the immersion in Dany's POV. But it's very different from Dany's relationship with Daario, which Dany enters out of her own desires and in which she finds a lot of sexual pleasure.

(I wonder if that's the real reason why so many people have such a big problem with Dany's relationship with Daario and the sex scenes between them; it reminds me of the recent statements by two actresses that suggested that MPAA tends to give harsher ratings to films with sex scenes that show a woman enjoying sex, compared to the scenes in which women are unresponsive or unwilling.)

The man who had been her brother

This is the last straw for Khal Drogo, Viserys behavior at the celebration crossed many lines, not only did he bring a blade and pulled it out, he threaten his and Dany’s unborn child. Drogo goes on to give the silver prince is crowned with gold.

A few things to discussed:

Dany is forced to translate what her brother says to Drogo. Firstly, there are others amongst the crowd who speak the Common Tongue so she cannot lie. Secondly, Jhiqui was asked to translate but she feared that if she did it would be a “shoot the messenger citation” so Dany did it. She was basically forced to sentenced her own brother to death. At this point Dany begins to call her brother “the man who had been her brother” (she call him this four times). She knew that his life had already been forfeited.

I was wondering how much this phrase was referring to his imminent death, and how much it was about him losing the right to be her brother anymore. But in any case, this is the moment when Dany gives up on Viserys.

Dany’s reaction at the end when she is strangely calm is one of shock - to see that it would shock anyone, imagine having to see your brother die like that. I believe her statement at the end: ”He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon.” was a sort of comprehension that all the bullshit he had fed her was untrue (in this manner), she had recognize it before but that was last proof. It’s also an untrue statement and Targaryens are not immune to fire.

Although "dragon" is often used as a metaphor/synonym for "Targaryen", Dany wasn't using it in that meaning, and neither was Jorah when he previously said that Rhaegar was the last dragon and that Viserys was just a "shadow of a snake". Obviously, Viserys is a Targaryen, but he was no "dragon" in the sense of being a strong, powerful, brave Targaryen who would make a great and fearsome leader. Now, great Targaryens do not have an immunity to fire - and GRRM has said that Dany's immunity to fire was a magical one-time deal - but Dany had at the time noticed that she was more fire-resistant than most people, including Viserys (maybe that was a result of her bond with and promixity to the dragon eggs?) so she was drawing a contrast between herself and Viserys, and realizing that she was the stronger of the two and potentially a better Targaryen ruler.

Dany's partial/temporary immunity to fire could refer metaphorically to Dany isn't threatened by fight or passion (fire and blood), but that stagnation and compromise can really hurt her (as we saw in Meereen).

WRT Viserys, well we've already discussed how he threw his life away. His behaviour is scarcely believable, except that people who are blinded by arrogance can behave like this. I remember being delighted when he got his crown of gold, when reading this for the first time (I'm slightly more sympathetic now, but not much). It was also the point when I realised just how good a book AGOT is. The scene is so well-written and tense.

One historical parallel leads us back to Genghis Khan. He executed the governor of Otrar, who'd murdered his envoys, by pouring molten silver over his head.

Viserys was also drunk, which helps explain his behavior. He had bought wine, and i think Dany also observed that it was wine that gave him courage, or rather recklessness. Beside his stupid belief that he can't be harmed - he didn't realize that the Dothraki have a way around the tradition, by insisting on the literal reading, which Dany already knew.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

That scene is quite funny in a way - it literally describes the sex act as "three strikes and he was finished". It was once brought up in a thread about sex in ASOAIF as an example of bad sex - Drogo doesn't come off as a good lover, for sure! But Dany doesn't think in those terms - she looks at Drogo with almost adoring eyes at this point and doesn't seem to have a problem with their sex life, but she doesn't know any different. This is something that will come up in the next chapter as well - both times sex between Dany and Drogo is described in terms of Drogo "taking his pleasure". Which wouldn't be such a problem if there were some occasions when Dany's pleasure was mentioned, but there aren't. It's something I didn't even take notice of the first time I read the book, probably because of the immersion in Dany's POV. But it's very different from Dany's relationship with Daario, which Dany enters out of her own desires and in which she finds a lot of sexual pleasure.

(I wonder if that's the real reason why so many people have such a big problem with Dany's relationship with Daario and the sex scenes between them; it reminds me of the recent statements by two actresses that suggested that MPAA tends to give harsher ratings to films with sex scenes that show a woman enjoying sex, compared to the scenes in which women are unresponsive or unwilling.)

She describes taking pleasure in an earlier chapter, but I do agree he is not ideal. Daario is at his most annoying (in my opinion) when he's off screen

[TheMysteriousOne]

I've always found the STMTW prophecy quite intriguing. However, I have a different interpretation of the final line of the prophecy. The final line states: The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name.

The most popular interpretation of this line is that the milk men in the stone tents are the Qartheen. This is, IMO, the more 'obvious' interpretation, the Qartheen are known as the Milk Men, due to their fair skin color, and they live in what the Dothraki call 'stone tents'. However, I don't think that the milk men referred to in the prophecy are the Qartheen. IMO, the milk men are Daenerys' enemies in Westeros.

WRT to the 'stone tents', the Dothraki are a nomadic people, and thus have no permanent homes or housing, so it follows that they would describe castles and other such permanent buildings and fortifications as stone tents because they have no words to describe such buildings. Qarth has such buildings, but Westeros is far more known for stone fortifications and buildings. Pretty much every castle in the Seven Kingdoms is made of stone. In her first chapter in AGOT she even describes Westeros as "a land of green hills and flowered plains and great rushing rivers, where towers of dark stone rose amidst magnificent blue-grey mountains, and armored knights rode to battle beneath the banners of their lords."

Westeros is overwhelmingly based on European societies and peoples. The Westerosi are very clearly white people, arguably with the exception of some of the Dornish. Since the Qartheen are called Milk Men because of their white skin, is it so far a stretch to assume that a Westerosi person could be described as 'milk-colored'? The Westerosi make far more sense, as it is very unlikely that Daenerys will go backwards to Qarth at this point in the story. Yes, she and Drogon destroyed the HOTU and the Qartheen were afraid of Dany, but her actions did not seem to cause Qarth any lasting harm, in contrast to how she has irrevocably altered Slaver's Bay. IMO, Daenerys' impact on Qarth is not significant enough to be such an important part of the prophecy.

The last line(s) of prophecies often contain the most vital information, so I personally think that her Westerosi enemies' fear is far more appropriate. It is almost certain that the climax of Dany's story arc will take place in Westeros, so it makes sense that she will make a huge impact on Westeros, and bring fear to her enemies. Daenerys is definitely heading to Westeros and she will surely unleash fire and blood upon her enemies.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

snip

I agree on that as well. I think the stone tents are the buildings in Westeros, rather than in Qarth, based on the images in Dany's fevered dream.

[Dany's Golden Fleece]

Hey everyone GoldenFleece here, I was just going to post my Daenerys V just now but I see that MOIAF has already beaten me to it. Unfortunately I have had problems accessing my original account, lost my password, tried to create a new password only to realise the e-mail account I was registered with this site is no longer working due to a hack, so I created a temporary sock account so I won't let you guys down with this re-read. I will be contacting the admins to try and get my access to GoldenFleece account sorted and to delete this account. Anyway here is what I wrote for Daenerys V. Again sorry for inconvenience to you all :-( .

AGOT: Daenerys V

Reborn, Renewed, Released

Summary

This chapter begins with a gruesome Dothraki ceremony where Daenerys has to consume a raw horse heart to give her and her future baby good fortune. She has been preparing for this the last few days practicing on tough dried horse meat and starving herself, she is determined to see this through. Daenerys finishes the heart, her husband looks on it pride and her brother is not mentioned/absent and she proclaims her son’s name will be Rhaego. The Dosh Khaleen prophecies a strong boy for the Khaleesi, he will be as fierce as a storm and with frightened look in their eyes they proclaim her son will be “the stallion who mounts the world” and unite all people into one tribe.

Afterwards they ride to the Womb of the World - a lake that has spiritual significance for the Dothraki. Daenerys ceremoniously bathes in the water washing away the horse blood. Drogo becomes visibly aroused and she has quick sex with him in front of the watching crowd and underneath the sky and stars, three thrusts and done.

They leave the Womb of the World for the feast, the Khals took the head bench while Daenerys had her own table with cushions, and she notices the absence of her brother. Ser Jorah had a place of high honour but seeing Daenerys he immediately went over to her and bowed his knee. Daenerys asks Ser Jorah to join with her and enquires about the whereabouts of her brother. Viserys is in the Western Market to find wine and to buy sellswords for his future campaign. Daenerys is worried that he might be killed, but his fate met with complete indifference by Ser Jorah and he tells her that he tried to take her dragon eggs. At first she is shocked, she has no idea that the dragon eggs stones were so valuable and amazingly she says that the eggs are his, he only needs to ask, and he is her true king and her brother. Ser Jorah tellingly rejects the notion he is the true king, but she seems not to notice.

A drunk, tattered and pitiable looking Viserys stumbles into the feast armed with a sword – which is illegal in Vaes Dothrak. Being drunk he is bolder that usual, shouting how dare they presume to eat without him – the king. Khal Drogo says something about Viserys that amuses the other Khals. Viserys notices them and makes way to join them, Drogo will have none of it and points to a table of the weak and feeble and declares that is the proper table for the “sorefoot” king. Ser Jorah tries to calm Viserys down but in his anger of the insult he withdraws his sword from his sheathe causing the Dothraki to shriek and curse at him. Daenerys begs him to stop, offering him the dragon eggs if he would just throw away his sword. Viserys doesn’t listen and is laughing AND weeping while he tells her he is taking her back with him without the foetus in her womb, Drogo bought her, but he didn’t pay for her and he wants his crown that was promised to him. Looking at Viserys, Daenerys realises he is not her brother anymore and translates for Drogo what he said. Drogo tells Viserys he will give him a golden crown, Viserys mistakes the meaning of this and he is held as molten gold is poured over the crown of this head, he dies a coward’s death screaming and whimpering.

“He was no dragon. Fire cannot kill a dragon.”

Observations

• We hear of the first prophecy in Daenerys’ storyline stating that she will bear a son that will unite all people into a single khalasar. Another hint about the specialness of Daenerys.
  
• Daenerys embraces Dothraki culture and earns the respect of the Dothraki, although there is a hint in the chapter that she will not “fully” embrace it, leading to trouble down the way.
  
• Ser Jorah does not regard Viserys as true king despite what he said earlier, in fact he breaks his oath by disobeying Viserys to protect Daenerys belongings. Clearly he favours Daenerys.
  
• Viserys patience is wearing thin and he is trying to hire sellswords for his army. He spends more time at the Western Market with Westerosi and Free City people, while Daenerys engages with Dothraki culture
  

Analysis

Adaptable… with limits

Daenerys ability to adapt is one of her strengths, one that her brother does not share and it has been talked about in previous chapters. But I will argue that this chapter hints that Daenerys is not fully commited 100% to the Dothraki and it is the way Daenerys views the Dosh Khaleen.

“Even the mightiest of khals bowed to the wisdom and authority of the dosh khaleen. Still it gave Dany shivers to think that one day she might be sent to join them, whether she willed it or no.”

It is clearly not a prospect that entices her. This is a mere hint, but she will clash with Dothraki customs and their way of life further down the road.

Naming her son Rhaego

At first glance there seems to be nothing significant about naming your son after your brother, people name their children after family relatives and friends all the time. But when you look at it closely, it is very curious that she named her son after Rhaegar.

Firstly she has never met Rhaegar so she can’t name her son after him because of the close relationship she had with him. She could have known him through Viserys, however Viserys only known Rhaegar as a very young boy and all we know for sure is that Viserys told Daenerys about Rhaegars love for Lyanna.

Could it be coincidence that she named her son after The Usurper’s (King Robert Baratheon) most hated enemy? “A name to make the Usurper’s blood to run cold” Ser Jorah most aptly put. Has Daenerys (subconsciously) swept Viserys aside to make her son King Robert’s chief rival for the Iron Throne? Daenerys and Ser Jorah have had discussions on how poor a king Viserys would be. After Viserys dies she automatically tries to convince Drogo to win her son his birth right of Westeros.

Womb of the World

The Dothraki custom of a new Khalessi washing off the horse blood in one of their holiest sites is symbolic of Daenerys storyline. The bathing in holy water is akin to baptism, a sense of rebirth, renewal of being born again. Daenerys is in effect being reborn, she is not the same person who left Pentos, and she is a completely different animal as we shall see later on. It is not a coincidence that the site of this rebirth is called “the Womb of the World”, the world is giving birth to a renewed woman that will change it.

But is this not a contradiction with the fire element of Daenerys’ character. Can she be reborn in water AND fire?

Sex at the Lakeside

Drogo was visibly aroused with Daenerys bathing in the lake. While we could just dismiss has Drogo getting randy at the look of her and think it does deeper than this – especially into account of how short he lasted. I think GRRM was trying to convey how taken Drogo is with Daenerys, the intense passion he has with her than he can only last a short time. He could probably last longer with any other girl, but Daenerys is so desirable to him on an emotional level he can’t last long.

This scene also symbolises Daenerys giving being comfortable with the Dothraki way of life, shedding her clothing, making herself vulnerable to them.

Also it took Drogo three thrusts to spend his seed. It could have been two thrusts, or four or five, but GRRM used three. Three thrusts = birth of three dragons? Of course three will be a number that surrounds Daenerys in these books.

The Farewell of Viserys

Earlier I said that Daenerys may have already swept Viserys aside and replaced him with her unborn child as favoured heir to the iron throne. If she had done so, I would say she did it subconsciously because she made a great effort to save Viserys’ life, even offering him her precious dragon eggs. She was in essence willing to trade in her dragon spirit in exchange for him living - that is quite a devoted sister despite the ills that Viserys did upon her even though he probably was dead the moment he took out his sword anyway. However once he threatened to kill her own unborn child, that was the end of it the sibling relationship for her in her own mind. He she now seems him laughing and weeping at the same time, an opposing set of emotions that must of look deranged.

Daenerys was reborn in the Womb of the World by cleansing in holy water, but her transformation would not be complete until she moved out of Viserys’ shadow for good. Pentos Dany would have begged to spare her brother’s life, she was nothing without her brother and she would be alone if he died. However the reborn confident Daenerys made herself watch her brother die. This is actually the scene that cements the foundations of the character of Daenerys for the rest of the books.

[SeanF]

Rock of Fergus. Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Has Daenerys (subconsciously) swept Viserys aside to make her son King Robert’s chief rival for the Iron Throne? Daenerys and Ser Jorah have had discussions on how poor a king Viserys would be

Her feelings about Viserys are conflicted (as we discussed upthread). She has realised that he's weak, vicious, cowardly, and incompetent, and guess he'll never take back the Iron Throne. So, consciously or not, she's already thinking of her unborn son as the next King.

However, we also see that she still thinks of Viserys as her King, and even refers to him as the King after his death.