ConmaicneMara Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I hope your princess dies. This. Followed by her passing the tower of ghosts, feeling like Ned, Syrio and Jon were with her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So? The very first introduction we get of Ned is him decapitating someone who didn't deserve it, thinking he was lying about his reasons for deserting, and he ended up suffering the exact same fate. It doesn't matter that he had good reasons in his own mind for decapitating him, so did Joffrey have reasons in his for decapitating Ned. If Ned had listened and believed that NW at the beginning, then he may have realised there were more important things to do than go off and be King's Hand, he wouldn't have sent Jon to the Wall, and maybe the Starks may not have been so decimated. Irony all over it. Huh? Just because Gared was right and did see WW, doesn't give him a free pass to desert... His duty is to go back to the Wall itself and tell his brothers, then stay there and defend the Wall. That is what he swore to do. He flat out deserted that duty and as a deserter his life is forfeit, as explained by Ned in that chapter. Also: When Tyrion thinks that Jon's mother put nothing of herself into him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 And getting decapitated by his own sword, Ice, the one he used to decapitate the Nights Watchman at the beginning of the story. Joffrey didn't have the wider world view to understand that it would be politically better to send Ned to the wall instead of executing him. He thought Ned was a traitor and deserved his decapitation and showed him mercy by not torturing him first. Both Ned and the deserter had good reason to be allowed to live but their executioners didn't have the necessary information or understanding. Honestly I blame Cersei for Ned's execution rather than Joffrey despite the latter being the one to order it. And where is the indication that the Gared brought up the Others? All I find is "Something had put a fear in him so deep that my words could not reach him."He was questioned but the specific answers he gave were not given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Whether Ned thought he was right in chopping off his head is irrelevant to any irony in the act. The irony is in the whole 'If Ned had not removed guy's head and instead believed his story, if he'd put giving people a fair chance to explain over the law of executing deserters, Ned wouldn't have left for King's Landing at all.' Ned ended up not being given a fair chance, being executed in front of a lot of people who thought he was just a traitor. Well, now he knows how that guy must have felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes but do we have any indication that Gared actually told Ned about the Others? Were his specific responses given? If not then its entirely possible the man was just saying things like "they're coming!" or "they are coming to kill us all!" Ned had the man questioned and the man gave answers. But we are not privy to what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Can I say the TV version was more obviously ironic in that case. Actually I may just slink off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 In its simplest form: Ned uses Ice to chop off a guy's head for a crime. Later on Ned's own head is chopped off by that same sword for a crime. That works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So? The very first introduction we get of Ned is him decapitating someone who didn't deserve it, thinking he was lying about his reasons for deserting, and he ended up suffering the exact same fate. It doesn't matter that he had good reasons in his own mind for decapitating him, so did Joffrey have reasons in his for decapitating Ned. If Ned had listened and believed that NW at the beginning, then he may have realised there were more important things to do than go off and be King's Hand, he wouldn't have sent Jon to the Wall, and maybe the Starks may not have been so decimated. Irony all over it. The punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. Everybody knows the punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. The deserter claimed he was running from something really scary, which makes him either crazy or deserting the Night's Watch when it was soon to face a crisis. We know its the latter, meaning is most definitely a deserter. He definitely wasn't running to let Lord Stark know the White Walkers are coming. Regardless, the punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of Harrenhall Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 a Crown for King! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 In its simplest form: Ned uses Ice to chop off a guy's head for a crime. Later on Ned's own head is chopped off by that same sword for a crime. That works for me. What crime? Ned didn't commit treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. Everybody knows the punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. The deserter claimed he was running from something really scary, which makes him either crazy or deserting the Night's Watch when it was soon to face a crisis. We know its the latter, meaning is most definitely a deserter. He definitely wasn't running to let Lord Stark know the White Walkers are coming. Regardless, the punishment for deserting the Night's Watch is death. Yes I do get that. But regardless if the guy 'should' have been killed. This was the one guy with information that, if believed, would have had Ned no doubt not going to KL He doesn't listen though, he chops off guy's head, guy can't tell anyone anything, Ned heads off obliviously to KL, gets own head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But Ned does listen. The man was mad and Ned's words didn't reach him. Maybe the man did bring up the Others, maybe he didn't. But at that point, he was listening to the ramblings of someone who wasn't very stable mentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes I do get that. But regardless if the guy 'should' have been killed. This was the one guy with information that, if believed, would have had Ned no doubt not going to KL He doesn't listen though, he chops off guy's head, guy can't tell anyone anything, Ned heads off obliviously to KL, gets own head off. IIRC, Ned talks to Benjen about what Gared(Will or whoever) told him thus there is no reason to believe that Ned wouldn't have still gone down South. Nor does that make it ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usrnmhsnomning Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I hope your princess dies. This is the only thing posted that was actually ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I find that Rob not wanting to repeat his father's percieved guilt, which it is possible that his father never committed, causing the North's ruin a very tragical irony.But I write also to point out that there is the chance that Tywin Lannister was phisically impotent, drugged in the bath when he was killed, Shae planted there and Jon Arryn the Hand whose "honor" prevented him to go to a pleasure house in public sight.Just two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSarellaX Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 IIRC Robert tells Ned that he could never lie, not even for honor or for love.And doesn't Jamie Lannister tell Cat that Ned was more loyal to Robert than to her, because he fathered a bastard but never bertayed Robert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuem Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hot pie being a baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So... Ned chopping off the head of a guy who was seen to have betrayed his oaths (deserting) and this leading in a roundabout way to his going to KL (if he had believed in the Others he wouldn't have gone) and having his own head chopped off for betrayal (treason) is to me an example of irony, but let's have an airtight definition of irony then? *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So... Ned chopping off the head of a guy who was seen to have betrayed his oaths (deserting) and this leading in a roundabout way to his going to KL (if he had believed in the Others he wouldn't have gone) and having his own head chopped off for betrayal (treason) is to me an example of irony, but let's have an airtight definition of irony then? *shrugs* Gared actually betrayed his oath, in contrast Ned never actually committed treason. Nor is there anything that would ensure Ned wouldn't have gone to down South even if he believed in the Others as he might that would be the best way to ensure Robert and the rest of the kingdom actually respond to the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Gared had pretty good reason to betray his oath IMO. Ned should've listened, not just chopped.And even in the unlikely event that Ned still left Winterfell and gone off to be King's Hand while believing the North was first in line if the Others invaded, at the least he wouldn't have been concentrating on all that black of hair hoo-ha would he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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