Kienn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So... Ned chopping off the head of a guy who was seen to have betrayed his oaths (deserting) and this leading in a roundabout way to his going to KL (if he had believed in the Others he wouldn't have gone) and having his own head chopped off for betrayal (treason) is to me an example of irony, but let's have an airtight definition of irony then? *shrugs* Well let's review the definition... 2. a situation that is strange or funny because things happen in a way that seems to be the opposite of what you expected What works? Arya hopes Frey boy's princess dies== Arya is the princess and therefore likely wouldn't actually hope that. Tyrion thinks Jon's mother left no trace of herself in Jon since he looks so Starkish== Jon actually looks so Starkish because of his mother. What doesn't work? Ned executes a guilty man like he's done many times before== Ummm... Ned actually gets executed because he executed an innocent guilty man? Noo...== Ummm... Ned thought executing a guilty man would prevent his own execution? Noo...== Ummm... If only Ned had believed man's rambling crazy story about monsters he would have ignored actual threats to his friends and family? Noo...== Ummm... ??? Maybe you can torture your example into some irony if you try once more... But it's actually just an example of bookending - the book starts(not literally since it's not in the prologue or the very first sentence...) with an execution and ends(again not literally...) with an execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ned decapitates a Nightswatch, who TBH didn't deserve it. They think he's lying. Later he is decapitated himself after being forced to lie. I'm seeing irony there. touche : to touch, perfect irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Gared had pretty good reason to betray his oath IMO. Ned should've listened, not just chopped. And even in the unlikely event that Ned still left Winterfell and gone off to be King's Hand while believing the North was first in line if the Others invaded, at the least he wouldn't have been concentrating on all that black of hair hoo-ha would he. No Gared didn't, in how if anything after the danger he saw he should have returned to Castle Black to warn his fellow brothers so they wouldn't be caught unaware thus they could properly prepare some defense for the realm. Ned did listen to what Gared had told him. Ned would still be capable of doing two things at once, thus he would still investigate why the Lannisters murdered one of his father figures thus discovering the bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If only Ned had not executed and believed sane man's ramblings about actual monsters, he wouldn't have gone on journey that led to his own execution?How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If only Ned had not executed and believed sane man's ramblings about actual monsters, he wouldn't have gone on journey that led to his own execution? How's that? Even if Ned had believed him then he would have still executed Gared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Ned decapitates a Nightswatch, who TBH didn't deserve it. They think he's lying. Later he is decapitated himself after being forced to lie. I'm seeing irony there. The man of the NW didn't return to the NW to report the incident. Therefore he is undoubtedly guilty. On the other hand, I can't really hold Ned not wanting to turn his friend's last moments into hell against him. Also, he did not flee from his post. There is no irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmd Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Even if Ned had believed him then he would have still executed Gared. But he was the only guy with first-hand knowledge of some centuries old, supremely destructive force. That would be fairly short-sighted of Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberich Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If someone would tell me that a Roman army, leaded by Varus,is marching against Germany by order of Imperator Augustus just this moment, I would not belive him. And this was only 2000 years in the past, not 8000 years as like the White Walkers. So the story Gared told was totally incredible. In Ned's eyes Gared was a deserter, caught in the act, who tried to apologise his capital crime with a absurd Story. No one would have belived this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Jon not being allowed to fight Joffrey because "bastards can't hit a prince" :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Rayne Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Even if Ned had believed him then he would have still executed Gared.Would he? Jon argued for Mance's life because his knowledge made him useful to the Night's Watches true purpose. Is it conceivable that Gared's -unique as far as Ned knew- first hand knowledge of the Others would accord him the same protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Honestly I blame Cersei for Ned's execution rather than Joffrey despite the latter being the one to order it. Generally the consensus is that Littlefinger was behind this, both to eliminate the husband of the object of his infatuation and to stir up war generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansa_Stark Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Generally the consensus is that Littlefinger was behind this, both to eliminate the husband of the object of his infatuation and to stir up war generally. Isn't that more theory than actual fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Jon not being allowed to fight Joffrey because "bastards can't hit a prince" :lol: :agree: I just wanted to add this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Clegane found Hoat sitting alone in the Hall of a Hundred Hearths, half-mad with pain and fever from a wound that festered. His ear, I’m told. This always makes me giggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 So? The very first introduction we get of Ned is him decapitating someone who didn't deserve it, thinking he was lying about his reasons for deserting, and he ended up suffering the exact same fate. It doesn't matter that he had good reasons in his own mind for decapitating him, so did Joffrey have reasons in his for decapitating Ned. If Ned had listened and believed that NW at the beginning, then he may have realised there were more important things to do than go off and be King's Hand, he wouldn't have sent Jon to the Wall, and maybe the Starks may not have been so decimated. Irony all over it. It was the desertion for which he was beheaded. He wasn't beheaded because Ned didn't believe him, I don't think that even IF Ned believed him it would have saved the man's life. His duty was to return to the Wall and inform the NW that he saw wights and Others, not to run for his own personal fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 In its simplest form: Ned uses Ice to chop off a guy's head for a crime. Later on Ned's own head is chopped off by that same sword for a crime. That works for me. I agree, that one is ironic. It took me a few rereads and a few rewatches (both scenes are really good), but I finally realized that it wasn't a bad thing for Ned to be killed with Ice, it is 'of the North' and like Lady........he deserved the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I agree, that one is ironic. It took me a few rereads and a few rewatches (both scenes are really good), but I finally realized that it wasn't a bad thing for Ned to be killed with Ice, it is 'of the North' and like Lady........he deserved the best. :O You just made it sound like a Gillette ad. Ice - the best a man can get... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 :o You just made it sound like a Gillette ad. Ice - the best a man can get... You've taken me from what I thought was a moving epiphany to..........LMAO!! :lmao: :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Would he? Jon argued for Mance's life because his knowledge made him useful to the Night's Watches true purpose. Is it conceivable that Gared's -unique as far as Ned knew- first hand knowledge of the Others would accord him the same protection? Possibly, but he'd be forced to return to the Night's Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixi Penrose Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But Ned does listen. The man was mad and Ned's words didn't reach him. Maybe the man did bring up the Others, maybe he didn't. But at that point, he was listening to the ramblings of someone who wasn't very stable mentally. So instead of taking a little time to find out what scared the bejeezuz out of the guy,lets just behead him and be done with it. I always found that to be a tad stupid. Yes the guy did commit an offence punishable by deat, but what's the hurry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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