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What I find strange about Lady's sacrifice


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#1 Grail King

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:15 PM

On the Lady sacrifice, Sansa told her dad the truth the night before she was brought before the King what I find weird is there is no reaction from Ned ( plenty of reaction from Arya as far as I remember ) when Sansa said she didn't remember what happened, since Ned learned it off page I wonder if Ned told Sansa to say she didn't remember not thinking Robert and Cersei would be total A holes.

Hence Ned tells Arya that Sansa can't betray Joffery even if he's wrong, and they must protect each other because winter is coming.

 

 



#2 ShadowCat Rivers

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:26 PM

 

1. On the Lady sacrifice, Sansa told her dad the truth the night before she was brought before the King what I find weird is there is no reaction from Ned ( plenty of reaction from Arya as far as I remember ) when Sansa said she didn't remember what happened, since Ned learned it off page I wonder if Ned told Sansa to say she didn't remember not thinking Robert and Cersei would be total A holes.

 

2. Hence Ned tells Arya that Sansa can't betray Joffery even if he's wrong, and they must protect each other because winter is coming.

 

 

The #2 is only in the show. In the books Ned never tells that.

 

As for #1, it doesn't make sense for Ned to instruct Sansa to say she does not remember. He was the one to call her to confirm Arya's story. If he wanted Sansa to not say anything, he would have just left her out of this.

 

Ned's lack of reaction is explained, I believe, in that he realized in hindsight that Sansa was afraid, that it was wrong of him to make her chose between her sister and her betrothed and that he shouldn't have implicated her.



#3 Luddagain

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:42 PM

I think that Ned unwittingly betrayed the Old Gods when he cut off Lady's head and I suspect lost his own his own head in retribution  AND cut off Sansa from being a Stark at the same time.

 

I somehow think Sansa will need another Dire wolf before can become Stark again - Perhaps one of Nymeria's pups



#4 Grail King

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:43 PM

 

The #2 is only in the show. In the books Ned never tells that.

 

As for #1, it doesn't make sense for Ned to instruct Sansa to say she does not remember. He was the one to call her to confirm Arya's story. If he wanted Sansa to not say anything, he would have just left her out of this.

 

Ned's lack of reaction is explained, I believe, in that he realized in hindsight that Sansa was afraid, that it was wrong of him to make her chose between her sister and her betrothed and that he shouldn't have implicated her.

I forgot that Ned had her brought forward, I would still think he like shake his head or some kind of reaction.



#5 Grail King

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

I think that Ned unwittingly betrayed the Old Gods when he cut off Lady's head and I suspect lost his own his own head in retribution  AND cut off Sansa from being a Stark at the same time.

 

I somehow think Sansa will need another Dire wolf before can become Stark again - Perhaps one of Nymeria's pups

I think she has a dog. 



#6 Kienn

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:51 PM

Harry Hardyng will take her hawking so the little bird will have a bird.

#7 Grail King

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:56 PM

Harry Hardyng will take her hawking so the little bird will have a bird.

I'm thinking more a Falcon



#8 Mladen

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:58 PM

I think that Ned unwittingly betrayed the Old Gods when he cut off Lady's head and I suspect lost his own his own head in retribution  AND cut off Sansa from being a Stark at the same time.

 

I somehow think Sansa will need another Dire wolf before can become Stark again - Perhaps one of Nymeria's pups

 

Even though Martin apparently suggested in some conversation with some fans that Lady's death represented some sort of alienation of Sansa as a Stark, we have many proofs in the text that is not some great case. Sansa proved her Stark roots over and over again, even when she was doing against her family (mirroring Lyanna's actions), not kneeling in front of Tyrion as the sign of rejection (she-wolf symbolism at hand), then we have her relationship with Baelish paralleling the story of Bael the Bard, we have snow castle scene... Saying Sansa is not Stark due to Lady's death is nonsense. She was a Stark for full 11 years before she met Lady, plus she is a warg... I simply don't see the reasoning how Sansa stopped being Stark at any point.



#9 DominusNovus

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:10 PM

Ned's lack of reaction is explained, I believe, in that he realized in hindsight that Sansa was afraid, that it was wrong of him to make her chose between her sister and her betrothed and that he shouldn't have implicated her.

 

Legal detail: In most systems of law, one cannot be compelled to testify against their spouse.  Obviously, westeros is a bit more... rugged in its jurisprudence, but it does seem that that same principle was guiding the idea here.

 

Speaking of legal stuff: Are there any lawyers anywhere in Essos or Westeros?



#10 Jo Maltese

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

Harry Hardyng will take her hawking so the little bird will have a bird.

Now there's a thought! 



#11 Jo Maltese

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:41 PM

 

(...) 1. She was a Stark for full 11 years before she met Lady, 2. plus she is a warg... (...)

1. Kill the Stark girl and let the Stark Lady be borne...

2. Is she?



#12 FloridaAg

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

Tully, Tully, Tully.



#13 Grail King

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

1. Kill the Stark girl and let the Stark Lady be borne...

2. Is she?

Per GRRM himself all Stark kids are Wargs some more so then others, Bran at this point the strongest with Sansa the weakest.



#14 Blugenes

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:56 PM

Given what happened when they killed the last Stark girl and let a Lady be born I do not think that a prudent idea.  I figured Lady's death was a foreshadow of things to come, namely that the wolves themselves are much as the Starks.  Jon is the white wolf with winter and a unique parentage in his veins, Arya was made to leave the rest for a long time and gather around her less capable wolves that she leads to escape and survival without fearing men, Summer guards and relays messages while protecting not only Bran but others, Shaggydog is the one we know least about, and Grey Wolf fights to the death for what he holds dear (and might be a foreshadowing of Jon Snow doing the same).  The death of Lady might ultimately mean that Sansa is beyond the fates meant for the rest of the Starks, perhaps she survives and becomes Queen of the Iron Throne but has sacrificed her innocence (lost her wolf) to do so?



#15 DominusNovus

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:07 PM

Per GRRM himself all Stark kids are Wargs some more so then others, Bran at this point the strongest with Sansa the weakest.

 

I'd say Robb is probably the weakest at this point.



#16 Jo Maltese

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:07 PM

Per GRRM himself all Stark kids are Wargs some more so then others, Bran at this point the strongest with Sansa the weakest.

Oh, so her bounding with a falcon (or a raven?) becomes a very serious hypothesis then!



#17 Jo Maltese

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:08 PM

 

I'd say Robb is probably the weakest at this point.

:drunk:



#18 Red Warg

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:14 PM

I think that Ned unwittingly betrayed the Old Gods when he cut off Lady's head and I suspect lost his own his own head in retribution  AND cut off Sansa from being a Stark at the same time.

 

I somehow think Sansa will need another Dire wolf before can become Stark again - Perhaps one of Nymeria's pups

 

Honestly cannot see Nym birthing pups in the series and even so, wouldn't they be of a lesser breed or something? I'm not saying they wouldn't be direwolves but.. you know..

 

 

I'd say Robb is probably the weakest at this point.

 

:laugh:



#19 Winter's Knight

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:16 PM

 

I'd say Robb is probably the weakest at this point.

 

Ouch.



#20 Catastrophe

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:28 PM

I don't think it's a coincidence that Sansa is the only one of the Stark children who isn't a warg-- or at least, the only one who hasn't developed her warging abilities at all, even on a subconscious level.