Bakker XXII: All Aboard the Damnation Express

[lokisnow]

There's a whole bunch of gilgaol touching people during the battle scenes.

It isn't particularly explicit.

yeah, it's not very explicit other than the text saying things like "Gilgaol was upon him" or "Others saw Gilgaol riding Saubon's frame." so it's pretty subtle.

[matt b]

After the battle of Mengedda, Saubon is declared Battle-Celebrant by the Gilgallic Priests, "the man whom dream War had chosen as his vessel on the field." First time I read the series, I read that line figuratively. Second time, I read it literally. I mean, the man did single handedly stop a Coyauri charge. I imagine that would be difficult without a god's help.

[Shryke]

First time I read the series, I read that line figuratively. Second time, I read it literally.

And I think this is Bakker's goal.

The presence of the gods is, in fact, extremely explicit in the PON trilogy. It's just we, the reader, are naturally inclined to view this through our own cultural lens and dismiss the statements as nothing but religious rights and fanciful wording.

TAE trilogy seems intent on making us reconsider that dismissal and to approach it from a different viewpoint.

[Madness]

First time I read the series, I read that line figuratively. Second time, I read it literally.

Layer of Revelation: TJE.

The presence of the gods is, in fact, extremely explicit in the PON trilogy.

+1.

[Sci-2]

After the battle of Mengedda, Saubon is declared Battle-Celebrant by the Gilgallic Priests, "the man whom dream War had chosen as his vessel on the field." First time I read the series, I read that line figuratively. Second time, I read it literally. I mean, the man did single handedly stop a Coyauri charge. I imagine that would be difficult without a god's help.

IIRC isn't this akin to the ideas of the ancient Greeks, where gods came upon people during particular moments of triumph and tragedy?

[jurble]

IIRC isn't this akin to the ideas of the ancient Greeks, where gods came upon people during particular moments of triumph and tragedy?

Is it? In the Iliad they don't come upon, they literally show up and interact. Ares takes the field, and Diomedes stabs him with Athena's help. Or there's a battle going on, and one of the gods begs that X win and another god begs that X win, then Zeus is like, "Hmm, nah that dude should win."

[Rhom]

Squee?

Squee.

[sologdin]

IIRC isn't this akin to the ideas of the ancient Greeks, where gods came upon people during particular moments of triumph and tragedy?

that's the aristeia. it's literal in homer, but most readers probsbly take that stuff as figurative in RSB, especially when it's placed in the mouth of an unnamed priest. kinda cool way, i suppose, to handle a worthless setting idea..

[Gaston de Foix]

Is it? In the Iliad they don't come upon, they literally show up and interact. Ares takes the field, and Diomedes stabs him with Athena's help. Or there's a battle going on, and one of the gods begs that X win and another god begs that X win, then Zeus is like, "Hmm, nah that dude should win."

In fact divine manifestation in the Iliad and the Odyssey is both direct, and indirect. To take just your example, Ares takes the field, but Athena's protection of Diomedes at the start of the battle is indirect and more by way of favour or blessing. To give another example, the Oracle at Delphi was supposedly possessed by Apollo's voice at certain times.

[Gaston de Foix]

Squee.

If we try to play it pretty safe, can we say, a June 2014 release is a reasonable expectation? Two weeks to finish up, five months to edit and turn around? Do we have any past precedents about how long RSB takes from manuscript to bookshop?

[Madness]

that's the aristeia. it's literal in homer, but most readers probsbly take that stuff as figurative in RSB, especially when it's placed in the mouth of an unnamed priest. kinda cool way, i suppose, to handle a worthless setting idea..

In fact divine manifestation in the Iliad and the Odyssey is both direct, and indirect. To take just your example, Ares takes the field, but Athena's protection of Diomedes at the start of the battle is indirect and more by way of favour or blessing. To give another example, the Oracle at Delphi was supposedly possessed by Apollo's voice at certain times.

+1. I think, post-TJE, mechanisms like this exist in Earwa - and have throughout the whole story.

[Sci-2]

IIRC there's potentially a year turn around unless you're GRRM or author of similar stature, so late 2014 would be the earliest you could hope for.

I'm guess early 2015 myself.

[sologdin]

there is no volume VI. the work of art is the elaborate viramsata involved in getting fans to anticipate it on the basis of cryptic internet trolling. it's like RSB is the new stanek.

[Borque]

Squee?

WHAT DO YOU SQUEE

[Werthead]

It may be dependent on when Overlook can get it out. They're a fairly small publisher and their turnaround can be a lot faster because they have less books to get through. Orbit UK should get it out roughly around the same time. I'll see if I can get more info, but I think early 2015 might be the best we can hope for.

[Calibandar]

If we try to play it pretty safe, can we say, a June 2014 release is a reasonable expectation? Two weeks to finish up, five months to edit and turn around? Do we have any past precedents about how long RSB takes from manuscript to bookshop?

That won't happen. For the previous books the turnaround was about 12 months.

I know this because I subscribed to Locus at the time, and they would announce it when an author delivered a manuscript.

And the turnaround then was close to a year.

So based on that, you'd think somewhere early next year. Of course that is such a long way off that we all hope for better things, and at this point a late 2014 date is certainly still an option. Overlook doesn't have their listings up beyond August 2014 for instance, so who knows. I think a great deal depends on Scott actually finishing it in a week or two, or if he end sup taking longer than that.

[Anatúrinbor]

I'm thinking mid to late 2015.

[Callan S.]

Actually, I regret that post. Surely there is no squeeing allowed on the slog.

No slogging allowed on the squee!

[Gaston de Foix]

It may be dependent on when Overlook can get it out. They're a fairly small publisher and their turnaround can be a lot faster because they have less books to get through. Orbit UK should get it out roughly around the same time. I'll see if I can get more info, but I think early 2015 might be the best we can hope for.

Thanks Wert- looking forward to seeing if you can find out anything more...

[Maithanet]

I'm thinking mid to late 2015.

If Bakker finishes TUC in Feb 2014, it seems very pessimistic that the book wouldn't be out until fall of 2015. I agree with Wert that late 2014 might be optimistic, but it isn't out of the question.