Jump to content

Crypt of Winterfell has the horn of Joramun?


Daendrew

Recommended Posts

In the crypts of Winterfell also waits:

-Plot twists that might make Gumby scream

-Lyanna rocking and knitting sweaters for her children

-The second marker and directions to the Canyon of the Crescent Moon

-A secret library with a few handy tips on making Valyrian steel

-Oddly dressed Wights from the Thriller video

-A prototype for a modern remake of Final Fantasy VII

-The secret of Arbor Gold and why it is so tasty

-a Stargate complete with active ZPV

-a functional TARDIS

-One copy of Aristotle's Poetics next to a corpse wearing only one glove

-three casks of Amantillado

-Choice pieces of Vorlon and Shadow technology

-Whale bones that look like they were shattered against something along with a random potted plant

-Torrhen's Crown of Winter

-A magical portal to Greywater Watch and Asshai and possibly Narnia

I hope the horn comes to nothing and that Sam just slaps some fixer over the cracks and turns it into a drinking horn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the crypts of Winterfell also waits:

-Plot twists that might make Gumby scream

-Lyanna rocking and knitting sweaters for her children

-The second marker and directions to the Canyon of the Crescent Moon

-A secret library with a few handy tips on making Valyrian steel

-Oddly dressed Wights from the Thriller video

-A prototype for a modern remake of Final Fantasy VII

-The secret of Arbor Gold and why it is so tasty

-a Stargate complete with active ZPV

-a functional TARDIS

-One copy of Aristotle's Poetics next to a corpse wearing only one glove

-three casks of Amantillado

-Choice pieces of Vorlon and Shadow technology

-Whale bones that look like they were shattered against something along with a random potted plant

Despite the joking around here, there clearly is something hidden in the crypts of Winterfell.

For me? I believe it's simply the secrets that lie with the dead. I don't think that Jon's dreams have to mean that he physically has to go into the crypts to find out his secret heritage.. It symbolizes that Lyanna and Eddard died knowing this secret. If he dies at the end of ADwD it could be a spiritual journey to the crypts of Winterfell that reveals his lineage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is that he didn't volunteer to go to Winterfell. The girl in Melisandre's vision was near Long Lake. The location for the wedding was changed at the last minute, I believe, so they couldn't have known that fArya was actually in Winterfell. And yes, if Mance is trying to find the Horn still, it's very suspicious. I made a post a little while back about how I thought the Wall would fall. It's a little lengthy so here are the c+p relevant bits:

I know the popular opinion is that the horn in Sam's possession is actually the Horn of Winter, but I think that this might be a red herring and it really is just some old, cracked horn. I think that the real Horn of Winter is hidden in the crypts of Winterfell. I think that Mance Rayder knows this, and that this was the real motivation behind both of his infiltrations. Considering that his spearwives kept asking Theon where the crypts were located, Mance's first attempt at gaining access to them was unsuccessful. While it is possible that they could have merely served as a hideout or quick escape route should something go awry, his sniffing after the crypts doesn't make sense otherwise. It is likely that the purpose behind his excavations in the Frost Fangs was to create a diversion by finding a suitable, temporary stand-in that would be seen as a big enough of a threat by the Watch that they would let the wildlings pass, thus giving him more time to get his hands on the real horn. I think that rescuing "Arya" was never actually a part of his plan. But, why is he so determined to find the horn? Wouldn't tearing down the Wall be quite counter-productive to his goal of protecting his people?

"If I sound the Horn of Winter, the Wall will fall. Or so the songs would have me believe. There are those among my people who want nothing more..."

"But once the Wall is fallen," Dalla said, "what will stop the Others?"

Mance gave her a fond smile. "It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." He turned back to Jon. "Go back and tell them to open their gate and let us pass. If they do, I will give them the horn, and the Wall will stand until the end of days."

I can't help but wonder that perhaps this is exactly what Mance had in mind. Is it possible that he hasn't been entirely honest about his agenda? What does he know that we don't? His fate at the end of aDwD is quite uncertain. Ramsay would have us believe that he is holding Mance captive. I think that this is a lie. It is likely that he was able to discover the details of the plan to rescue "Arya" from one of the spearwives instead, and that Mance peaced out at the first sign of trouble and sought refuge in the crypts.

I also like what Bran Vras has suggested about Mance and the Horn of Winter (TL;DR - the horn is in the cyrpts and Mance gets his hands on it; this is the mysterious horn sounding from somewhere inside of the castle before the big escape). Either way, The King Beyond the Wall has scaled said Wall countless times, has snuck his way inside of Winterfell on more than one occasion, and even gave Stannis Baratheon the slip right under his nose. If there is anyone in Westeros that is going to finally bust him, I highly doubt that it will be Ramsay Snow of all people.

Ya know...Mance's response to Dalla.... I find it odd that He said that line the way he did..."It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." What if he is not talking about Val...I would think Mel would have noticed if he had a hidden agenda, but what if he is the Night's King, might explain his actions in Winterfell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's about the least crackpot among the theories you can find around here about what dwells within the Crypts. And it may be true, it makes sense to bury something like that in the crypts to make sure it's never found.





That's the horn that would bring down the Wall,? And they didn't want to bring down the Wall because then you have nothing to hide behind any more?



Why even create a horn to do that if there's Others on the other side that can invade Westeros?



I don't really get that part.





The horn is called the Horn of Joramun, but nobody ever said that Joramun created it. Maybe Joramun stole the horn from the Night King and later gave it to the Starks for safekeeping. People would call it the Horn of Joramun to avoid mentioning the Night King, who became kind of taboo (nobody remembers his real name).


Link to comment
Share on other sites

There may be a will and document legitimizing Jon as a trueborn son of Rhaegar in Lyannas tomb. Ned made a scuplture of her, something reserved only for kings. Because she was actually a queen :)

At best that'd make her a princess, cause, you know, at no point was Rhaegar ever king. Likewise, Brandon was never Lord of Winterfell, and Bran explains very well Neds intentions when he had the statues made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But in all honesty I still reckon Sam's got the horn in Oldtown, I just can't convince myself that it's not the case.

:agree:

Is there a way to search through So Spake Martin?

Searches give me errors.

copy paste the following line into google:

"search subject here" site:www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/

replace search subject and quotes with whatever you want to search for.

Coincidentally for those who have probs with the search function on the forums you can use the following in google:

"subject" site:asoiaf.westeros.org

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the crypts of Winterfell also waits:

-Plot twists that might make Gumby scream

-Lyanna rocking and knitting sweaters for her children

-The second marker and directions to the Canyon of the Crescent Moon

-A secret library with a few handy tips on making Valyrian steel

-Oddly dressed Wights from the Thriller video

-A prototype for a modern remake of Final Fantasy VII

-The secret of Arbor Gold and why it is so tasty

-a Stargate complete with active ZPV

-a functional TARDIS

-One copy of Aristotle's Poetics next to a corpse wearing only one glove

-three casks of Amantillado

-Choice pieces of Vorlon and Shadow technology

-Whale bones that look like they were shattered against something along with a random potted plant

-and another secret Targaryean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, Joramun has blown the horn before and giants were woken. Why didn't the Wall fall then? I think that the horn blowing may be some kind of symbolic falling of the wall (the Lord Commander was defeated and the Watch defeated when Joramun and the Stark king united, thus technically the Wall's defenses did fall).


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya know...Mance's response to Dalla.... I find it odd that He said that line the way he did..."It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." What if he is not talking about Val...I would think Mel would have noticed if he had a hidden agenda, but what if he is the Night's King, might explain his actions in Winterfell

Could you elaborate on what you mean about Val? Are you talking about the 'similarities' between her and Night's King's Other queen?

Anyway I like the idea of Mance as the Night's King. Melisandre really isn't as insightful as she would have everyone believe. her prophecies are really just guessing games -- she has no idea what they actually might mean and she's grasping in the dark.

That's about the least crackpot among the theories you can find around here about what dwells within the Crypts. And it may be true, it makes sense to bury something like that in the crypts to make sure it's never found.

The horn is called the Horn of Joramun, but nobody ever said that Joramun created it. Maybe Joramun stole the horn from the Night King and later gave it to the Starks for safekeeping. People would call it the Horn of Joramun to avoid mentioning the Night King, who became kind of taboo (nobody remembers his real name).

I like this! It's definitely likely that they buried both the Night's King & the Horn in the deepest parts of the crypts where no one will venture, and probably in a unmarked grave since they struck his name from history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I truly hope that Jon's descent into the crypts the next time is not out of intrigue or a scholastic pursuit, but instead is to herald Ned's bones finally being interred.



That way, instead of something leaving the crypts, something arrives and something departs. Seems only fair with our knowledge of magic in this world.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

"A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - Littlefinger



Ned made a scuplture of Lyanna to place in the crypt, something normally reserved only for kings. This is because she was actually a queen.



There are no other female tombs in the crypt. Ned is a man of tradition and honor. Would he break all tradition goign back centuries because he loved his sister? Almost all the kings and lords of Winterfell loved their dead sisters and wives.



Only the male tombs have swords across their laps, intended to conceal their spirits within. Lyanna has a harp. Indicating it will not release spirits if the sword is removed, as there is no sword.



It is not just any harp, but Rhaegars harp with silver strings.



Rhegar is mentioned with the harp in four of the five books, practically every time he was mentioned.



Cersei, Jorah Mormont, Daenerys, Ser Barristan and Jon Connington are all characters who recall seeing the harp.With Connington being in love with Rhaegar I wonder what his reaction would be towards fAegon. The human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about as GRRM frequently echos Falkner.



"Dany could not let it go. “His is the song of ice and fire, my brother said. I’m certain it was my brother. Not Viserys, Rhaegar. He had a harp with silver strings.” Ser Jorah’s frown deepened until his eyebrows came together. “Prince Rhaegar played such a harp,”" -ACoK



Silver strings are mentioned very often, it is not just a regular harp stringed instrument.



It was said that no man ever knew Prince Rhaegar, truly. I had the privilege of seeing him in tourney, though, and often heard him play his harp with its silver strings.” _Ser Barristan ACoK



Having just his harp proves nothing. But bundled with documents, proving legitimacy, and the greatest proof of Targaryenity, riding a dragon can seal the deal.



By going into the crypt to see Lyannas tomb, it would be a waking of a dragon out of stone. He walked in a bastard Stark and after receiving word is awoken as a Targaryen dragon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - Littlefinger

Ned made a scuplture of Lyanna to place in the crypt, something normally reserved only for kings. This is because she was actually a queen.

There are no other female tombs in the crypt. Ned is a man of tradition and honor. Would he break all tradition goign back centuries because he loved his sister? Almost all the kings and lords of Winterfell loved their dead sisters and wives.

I'm really not a fan of the harp theory. I don't think that Lyanna is the only woman entombed in the crypts; all the Starks are there, she's just the only woman that has her own statue. And of course, they may not have been married at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At best that'd make her a princess, cause, you know, at no point was Rhaegar ever king. Likewise, Brandon was never Lord of Winterfell, and Bran explains very well Neds intentions when he had the statues made.

After the Dance of Dragons they changed succession laws that male heir beats any female and female only inherits after true born male ones are extinguished/ Viscerys is gone and fAegon is a Blackfyre.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...