joluoto2 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 What role will they play next? Will Jeyne Westerling still be important, didn't George say she wasn't pregnant? If she isn't bearing Rob's heir in what way will she be important? And what about the other Westerlings? Do they still have roles to play? Sybelle Spicer's brother got Castamere, one of the most prestigious castles in the Westerlands (although now a ruin), and there are probably lands and gold mines attached. Will they still side with the Lannisters, or will they turn? Have they already turned? Jaime's meeting with the Westerlings in Feast was very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 What role will they play next? Will Jeyne Westerling still be important, didn't George say she wasn't pregnant? Where does GRRM say that? I don't see that anywhere. Sybell had been giving Jeyne a contraceptive tea, and she knew better than to risk Tywin's wrath. I don't know what role Jeyne will play, but I think her mother and Rolph will get their comeuppance for betraying Robb. As for Castamere, parcels of the land were likely carved off and given to loyal supporters of Tywin in the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion, and he likely kept the best lands, including the gold mines, for himself. Rolph likely got the castle and some of the lands, the main reason was to be constantly reminded of what happened to the last family that occupied the castle in case he gets any thoughts of screwing the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yeah he said that we will see her again, and supposedly confirmed that the hip discrepancy was a mistake and not a clue. Don't think he ever confirmed she wasn't pregnant, though I don't believe she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thornhart Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The rumor that Jeyne's hips thing were a mistake wasn't confirmed by GRRM himself, it was confirmed by some guy claiming GRRM told him that, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not sure Castamere is worth anything except the title; the castle itself is in ruins. In a way, Sybell is already getting her comeuppance-her eldest son, (who was NOT in on her treachery and really didn't deserve it,) died at the RW, and it's not clear what she got of value in return. The bride from CR, she was promised is actually the bastard Joy, and Jaime rather wonderfully, suggests he thinks that's more then the Westerling's deserve. Supposedly, Jeyne and her sister will marry lords, (thanks to Lannister dowries,) but the way things are going I don't know if the Lannister's will be able to keep that promise even if they wanted to. Jaime doesn't and Cersei doesn't give a damn about rewarding any kind of service. I wouldn't be surprised if Tywin always planned on marrying the girls off to the poorer, newer, and more insignificant 'lords' simply because it would be cheaper and less trouble than setting them up with 'good' matches. In the meantime, Sybell threw away the chance to have her grandchild be heir to Winterfell-possibly even King or Queen of the North. Her relationship with her daughter is ruined, and her erstwhile ally Jaime holds her in contempt, as will a lot of other people. With the benefit of hindsight, it was a pretty bad bargain, and I can only believe she was blinded by the Lannister aura of invincibility and riches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have a hard time believing that her character will be relevent when her TV dopleganger was dispatched with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The rumor that Jeyne's hips thing were a mistake wasn't confirmed by GRRM himself, it was confirmed by some guy claiming GRRM told him that, I think. Yeah, but that is the nature of most of the SSMs. I acknowledge it could be bullshit, but at the same time if you question that you have to question at least 50% of the info gleaned from George's speaking appearances. It's not really fair to single this one report out just because it shoots down a theory you want to believe. As far as I know there's only been one instance of a "false SSM" and it was more an issue of the reporter embellishing Martin's words than just making shit up. Edit: here's the link to the SSM: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Union_Square_Signing1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 In a way, Sybell is already getting her comeuppance-her eldest son, (who was NOT in on her treachery and really didn't deserve it,) died at the RW, and it's not clear what she got of value in return. No if I remember correctly, dude tried to free Robbs wolf, caught a crossbow bolt, then jumped into the river. I don't think we have seen the last of him. Personally I think he floated down river for a while then hoofed it the rest of the way to river run and that he and the Black FIsh are out there somewhere keeping it real. The Crag is on the ocean so I have to assume dude was a swimmer. In fact its described as being on a cliff above the ocean so maybe dude was even experienced at jumping from heights into water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have a hard time believing that her character will be relevent when her TV dopleganger was dispatched with. Depends what you mean by relevant. Mago is dead in the show but GRRM has said he has more to do in the books. The show will be forced to give his scene to another character, a new character, or leave it out. They can do the same for anything for Jeyne as well. Show ≠Books and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Fun fact. Jeyne Westerlings grandmother (or maybe great grandmother) was Maggy the Frog, the woods witch who told Cersei her future when she was young. Jeyne Westerling is a Queen. A young queen. Is she beautiful? Well, pretty enough. Are you thinking what I am thinking? Namely, that Jeyne Westerling is a younger more beautiful queen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowford Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Depends what you mean by relevant. Mago is dead in the show but GRRM has said he has more to do in the books. The show will be forced to give his scene to another character, a new character, or leave it out. They can do the same for anything for Jeyne as well. Well, yeah. But you know that they can't do on the show anymore? Claiming Robb had a legitimate child with his queen. Or claiming that the Jeyne-stand-in becomes a major political player by being former Queen of the North. Because dead 'n' stuff. Doesn't mean that Jeyne is not going to become important in the books. But she is probably not being very important as Robb's widow, and definitely not as the mother of his hypothetical heir. And yes, I dislike the fact that we have to incorporate the show into our speculations about the books too. Especially since Talisa was one of the most idiotic changes in the adaptation, which did not even simplify the plot or anything. But it just seems pointless to adhere to this theory anymore. Plausible deniabilty only goes so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well, yeah. But you know that they can't do on the show anymore? Claiming Robb had a legitimate child with his queen. Or claiming that the Jeyne-stand-in becomes a major political player by being former Queen of the North. Because dead 'n' stuff. I never saw a child of Robb as possibly important to the story, at best it functions as the next male heir, a spot already filled by Bran and Rickon unless they both die. Sansa would actually be able to fill in anything else for Jeyne as a Queen figure. Talisa was one of the most idiotic changes in the adaptation, which did not even simplify the plot or anything. She did simplify it... instead of there being a plot between Tywin and one of his banner men(or his banner man's wife at least) there is only the plot between tywin/walder/roose. ETA: I actually thought it was pretty awesome they kept showing Talisa writing letters. It was like a meta-twist on people who had read the books. But it just seems pointless to adhere to this theory anymore. Plausible deniabilty only goes so far. Which theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowford Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 She did simplify it... instead of there being a plot between Tywin and one of his banner men(or his banner man's wife at least) there is only the plot between tywin/walder/roose. Which theory? 1. They could have simplified THAT part - the Westerling's part in the conspiracy could have been excluded. It was not a necessary prerequisite for the Red Wedding. But aside from that, there would not have been that much of a difference if they had stuck to the book version of events with Robb and Jeyne, which was actually even less detailed than the relationship between Robb and Talisa. The way they adapted it, it reeked too much of a "perfect fantasy story relationship" (with tragic ending, of course). Instead of a rather average girl Robb committed an indescretion with in an hour of despair, Talisa was an exotic beauty from a far-away land, a plucky field medic who nevertheless turned out to be a noble (but dislikes it, of course), and their relationship was brought on by heartfelt romance. I did like the part that Talisa, unlike Jeyne, actually took an interest in politics and strategy, since there are very few female characters who do, but this did not outweigh the other stuff I mentioned. 2. The theory that Jeyne gave birth to Robb's heir. Or the theory that she will become a major player due to her marriage to Robb. Pick one. Oh, and also the theory that Greywind is still alive, while we are at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 1. Well I think Talisa was also the result of the simplification of Catelyn's story. They cut out massive portions of Catelyn's story(since hers is so heavy on internal monologues) but they still wanted the RW to have an impact so they built up Robb and included a better romance than the book version. I guess you might be saying that all should have been done with Jeyne instead... but then all you're really arguing about is the name change... 2.Oh, and also the theory that Greywind is still alive, while we are at it.Hey I'm always looking for any solid proof he's dead... but no one seems to have any and him being alive is the only thing that makes sense for below quote in DWD, for which again no one seems to have an alternate explanation - but that's all better for a Grey Wind or dire wolves thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 1. Well I think Talisa was also the result of the simplification of Catelyn's story. They cut out massive portions of Catelyn's story(since hers is so heavy on internal monologues) but they still wanted the RW to have an impact so they built up Robb and included a better romance than the book version. I guess you might be saying that all should have been done with Jeyne instead... but then all you're really arguing about is the name change... Hey I'm always looking for any solid proof he's dead... but no one seems to have any and him being alive is the only thing that makes sense for below quote in DWD, for which again no one seems to have an alternate explanation - but that's all better for a Grey Wind or dire wolves thread. I for one would have bought Rob falling in love with and marrying a highborn Westerosi girl much more than Rob falling in love with and marrying random nurse from Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have a hard time believing that her character will be relevent when her TV dopleganger was dispatched with. Don't take the TV interpretation as canon. They make mistakes. For example, Martin himself has said that they painted themselves into a corner by deleting the older Tyrell brothers - suggesting that Wyllas and Garlan will probably have an important role to play in the final books. Fun fact. Jeyne Westerlings grandmother (or maybe great grandmother) was Maggy the Frog, the woods witch who told Cersei her future when she was young. Jeyne Westerling is a Queen. A young queen. Is she beautiful? Well, pretty enough. Are you thinking what I am thinking? Namely, that Jeyne Westerling is a younger more beautiful queen? And if you want to expand on that, another Jeyne Westerling was one of Maegor's queens, and yet another female member married a King of the Rock, suggesting that there is Westerling blood in the Lannisters' veins. I find the whole House peculiarly interesting, although to be honest, I don't think much will come out of it. Sure, they had some important marriages, but in Westeros everyone is related to pretty much everyone. Edit: And to answer the OP - I don't think the Westerlings have a big role to play and I don't think Jeyne is pregnant. And as far as Castamere goes - Tywin gave them the ruins of the castle, but not the gold to rebuild it. Likewise, he promised Joy both to them and to the Freys. Tywin's gifts are poisonous. When you think about it, all the favours Tywin granted to the RW conspirators were to be short-lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.