The Abominable SnowOther Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Honestly Jon should just have sex more often perhaps Val maybe even that Karstark girl before she married that Magnar of Thenn guy... boy, is she in for a ride with that guy! Anyway, if Jon did that he would stop worrying so much about some stupid vows to the NW and do what he thinks is best regardless the situation.If hes still even alive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The Watch serves the realms of men, not the Seven Kingdoms. are these not one and the same? or are you considering essos, sothroryos, etc? btw, this is interesting since it would definitely include the lands north of the wall. hmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 are these not one and the same? or are you considering essos, sothroryos, etc? btw, this is interesting since it would definitely include the lands north of the wall. hmmmmmm. Jon feels the same way, that's what got him into all this trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jons nissa Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Jon feels the same way, that's what got him into all this trouble. actually i was referring to the cotf and the others. but perhaps that is not the realm of man. which is why i find it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Or Tommen, Aegon, or Dany thus until the civil war is over none of them can disband the Night's Watch nor is there any reason the story needs Jon to be king of anything. Additionally, in how Selmy being released from his KG's vows didn't make him to back into the head of his House there is no reason to believe Jon would be restored to the top of his House. Was Selmy (ignoring KG) ever going to be the head of his house ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 are these not one and the same? or are you considering essos, sothroryos, etc? btw, this is interesting since it would definitely include the lands north of the wall. hmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The realms of men are all places men reside. Including Essos (which was once connected by land bridge) and Wildling lands etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Was Selmy (ignoring KG) ever going to be the head of his house ? Selmy was his father's eldest son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 my saying jon may not leave hardly proves what you are saying. the expected outcome and premise of this thread is that jon will be magically freed from his vows and allowed to leave the wall and become ..... something. i'm saying that he will not be freed and that this expected outcome is not likely to happen as it would be an easy out for the character. he will have to wrestle with something - be it to learn of his heritage but chose to turn his back to it and remain at the wall and deal with possibly feeling as though he failed his true family or he will embrace it and leave the wall and feel as though he failed his brothers. it will not be both or neither. he will not learn he is a targ heir, be forced to leave without breaking his vow and become what ever he will become. and he will not remain at the wall and feel happy-go-lucky thinking this was the only possible choice to make either. he will have to pay somewhere, somehow. and are you really talking about not having a minutia of details? in this series?A whole lot of certainty for things that may or may not happen. For your sake, I hope you have everything mapped out perfectly and/or GRRM is actually a good writer and you'll come to accept these seemingly impossible things if they come to fruition.No, I am saying that minutia of detail absolutely exists and your certainty over the exactness of it is quite likely erroneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duranaparthur Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Okay, here's another scenario where I could see Jon "breaking" his vows. I'm mostly just having fun doing scenario creating, so don't take this as my full on prediction.After the Night's Watch gets decimated and largely dismantled, Jon still won't feel he has the right to break his vows. However, he is flexible and fallible in upholding them under situations where he needs to adapt, especially if there is an outside pressure exerting on him to make that decision. He bent and even somewhat broke his vows to infiltrate Mance's Wildlings, and he was very much considering carrying out his assassination mission when sent on it. Jon seems to have conceived that while he may not be able to maintain a knight's honor, he does have a "bastard's honor," which seems to be based off doing the "right thing regardless of the means" while maintaining enough "honor" to still function in noble society. His duty to the Realm rests in holding the Wall.So, if Jon were pressured by multiple "superiors" into breaking his vows for the duty of saving the world, I think he would. Stannis can't bribe him with Winterfell and legitimization just to retake the North. But if Stannis, Dany, Bran, etc., all argue that with the Night Watch effectively destroyed he needs to take a lordship/kingship over Wildlings, his remaining brothers, and some other warriors, he would. So if he believed that to save the realm and thus keep the most important of his vows he must seize direct control of the Wildlings like Mance as a King Beyond the Wall, perhaps marry someone (Val/Dany/whoever) to seal an alliance, and maybe even assume something like Lord Protector of the North or Prince of the Iron Throne, he would.But it couldn't be as a bribe or technicality, it would have to be as duty or command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stag Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think the only way the night's watch would ever be 'abolished' (as you put it), would be if the wall fell, which I think won't be happening since they're the only ones preparing (pfffft) for the WWs and the people of the seven kingdoms still take unkindly to those from the other side of the wall, and if the night's watch was to be abolished, there would be no one to protect the kingdoms from ~The Outside (really).So, yeah. I don't think the night's watch will be abolished any time soon in asoiaf.Also: I don't think Jon will ever become king of anything, even if r + l = j, because he hasn't ever shown interest in the iron throne and all that. While everyone else was claiming to be king of this or king of that, he was thinking of the impending threat of the white walkers.eta!-- *sorry if anyone's already commented saying all of this, I just skimmed through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Roose has a title but I doubt he has the power or support to abolish the NW, even in its current state. Same goes for the Iron Throne, no way will they abolish the Watch, doing so will make them even more despised than they already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sages Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not certain that the Night's Watch can actually be abolished. The Night's Watch is an order that actually predates the seven kingdoms. Its members swear to defend the realms of men. Not to serve the king or kingdom. The only way the Night's Watch is abolished is if somebody comes and wipes them out. The night's watch vows are not to the wall either. So if the wall falls the oath still stands. To be truly released from his vows I'm thinking that Jon either has to be declared dead. Or the old gods somehow release him because that's where he swore his vows. It's very possible that Jon is declared dead and the brotherhood says the eulogy "and now his watch has ended". This could perhaps release Jon from his vows. If jon is able to recover like most of us believe he will it would then be up to Jon what to do next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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