Eddard analysis

[Sansa_Stark]

I think we need to do a big Eddard reread. I saw another one but I don't think the person completed it. And plus, I like doing some of these things on my own.

Starting things off.

Eddard is often considered one of the most moral and honorable characters in the series. Often times he is considered a "tragic" hero, one who was destroyed by his own honor.

Most would agree with the above. Now let's start an analysis of Ned's character; the good and the bad.

Sorry for the choppy organization.

[Sansa_Stark]

Execution of Gared:

When we are first introduced to Eddard in AGOT, he is about to execute the deserter Gared. Now while at first we may have been quick to judge Eddard to execute an "innocent" man, the truth is the man deserted, and by law Eddard was justified in executing him(in universe).

He brings his 2 older sons and his nephew along. Interestingly, he does not let Arya or Sansa come, despite them being older than Bran. I guess this is a sign that Ned is prejudiced against women a bit(something I'll discuss later on a little more) but still, he's a lot better than many others.

Now in this first chapter we are introduced to Eddard's famous quote.

"the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die."

An interesting quote. It suggests and states that Eddard does not just execute people without thought. This is a big part of what separates him from the likes of Tywin and Jaime and nameless others. They just hang/execute people and go about their day. When Eddard executes, he gives the man a chance to speak his final words.

"But she knew where she would find her husband here tonight. Whenever he took a man's life, afterward he would seek the quiet of the godswood."

This also supports the above, why would Eddard go to his godswood every time he executes a man? Eddard is not the type to just execute and forget about it. Ned sees the value in human life. Even a deserter like Gared.

After Cat finds him in the godswood praying. She calls out his name. After Ned acknowledges she is there, Ned asked

"Where are the children?"

and Cat notes "He would always ask her that"

Now, when you consider all of this, its clear to see that Ned is a very family orientated man. Executing a criminal in front of his sons might seem barbaric, but it seems that Ned is trying to raise his sons to be what is considered strong and "manly" for their cultures standards.

"Ned frowned. "He must face his fears. He will not be three forever."

Here Ned expresses slight disappointment at Rickon for being afraid of his direwolf. Its the same logic and belief that let's Ned believe its okay for a young boy(Bran) to watch an execution. Seems odd to judge a 3 year old like that, but its the world they live in I guess.

King Bob's visit:

In Catelyn's first chapter, she announces to Eddard that Jon Arryn dies. This hits Ned hard, seeing as how JonA was like "a second father to him and his fellow ward, Robert Baratheon."

When hearing of this news, and learning of the grieving widow, Eddard tells Catelyn to consul her sister by letting her go to the Vale. Arryn was a father and left a "grieving widow". He allows Catelyn to "take the children" as Arryn's son needs other companions.

I believe this shows Eddard's high empathy. Of course, even discussing this it wasn't possible for Catelyn, seeing as how she tells Ned that the king is coming to WF himself. When Eddard comprehends what Cat is saying, he smiles. Indicating he got along well with Robert. But whenever Catelyn brings up that the "queens brothers" are also coming, Ned's smiles fades into a grimace. We learn that Ned never forgave the Lannisters for coming late to the war, only when it was certain the Targs lost.

Now despite Ned's excitement of Robert coming, Jon Weirarygen makes a good point that I am inclined to agree with.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/102700-small-questions-v-10022/page-5

In AGOT, in Cat's first chapter, Ned says

"It will be good to see the children. The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman's teat the last time I saw him. He must be, what, five by now?

"Prince Tommen is seven," she told him. "The same age as Bran.

"Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy's Rebellion, ..."

"ETA: I think this is meant to tell us Ned has not been following closely with Robert's family life and not taken an interest. It probably is part of the tale that Ned sought reclusion and a distance after the baby-killings at the Sack of Kings Landing and the Tower of Joy tragedy. The only time he left his mother country in the mean time was for the Greyjoy Rebellion."

I agree with Jon W to an extent. I believe those two quotes were meant to show that Eddard was somewhat distant to the rest of the realm, and it shows how little he knew of how KL worked.

[Sansa_Stark]

EDDARD I analysis:

The chapter starts off with the introduction of a lot of characters. We see the Hound, Tyrion, Cersei, Jaime Lannister. Ned can deduce the identities but has a hard time identify a strange man until he hugs him. Ned notes how fat he got. Of course, this is where Ned notes how badly Robert changed. He went from muscled like a maiden's fantasy to obese.

After some introductions, Robert does the move of wanting to see Lyanna's crypt. This pisses Cersei off, but whatever right?

Well walking down to the crypts Robert talks about the south and talks about food, pleasures and women and typical "manly man" stuff.

However, its interesting to note that Ned thinks.

"Robert Baratheon had always been a man of huge appetites, a man who knew how to take his pleasures. That was not a charge anyone could lay at the door of Eddard Stark."

He might be deluding himself. But I think not. We know Ned is so utterly unlike Bob in many ways. Ned wasn't the type of guy to lay with lots of women the way Robert did.

"She is down at the end, with Father and Brandon."

Its interesting to note that typically, only lords and kings of WF are supposed to have statues..Yet Ned chose to put down both his brother and sister.

Ned recalls his siblings now. Eddard recalls Brandon, murdered by the Aerys with his father and recalls his near marriage to Catelyn.

Of course, interestingly enough, we see Eddard's possible bitterness and potential inferiority complex here.

"He was the true heir, the eldest, born to rule."

Its odd, seeing as how idiotic Brandon was that Ned thinks these things.

He then recalls Lyanna.

"Ned had loved her with all his heart."

Ned recalls loving his sister here, but as of right now(not done rereading) I don't recall Ned admitting love for Brandon at this time or even Rickard. Seeing as how Ned saw JA as a father figure, Robert Baratheon as "more than a brother" or something(later in the book), its entirely possible Ned was a bit estranged from his father and brother in some form and compensated with Robert and Jon Arryn.

He also interestingly thinks.

"Robert had loved her even more."

Yeah I know he tells Robert he didn't know Lyanna that well(later on). That's beside the point.

Robert then whines about how beautiful she was and then how she should be buried somewhere else etc.

And then Ned brings up that he "was with her when she died"

He then tells Robert that she wanted to "rest beside Brandon and Father."

Ned then has his first of many "promise me" memories in this. On a first time read, readers might think that the WF burial is the promise, but we all know that's untrue.

When he remembers how Lyanna dies, in the aftermath of her death, Eddard thinks

"After that he remembered nothing."

and

"The little crannogman, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it."

Ned mourned hard after Lyanna died. He was presumably in shock.

[Sansa_Stark]

Then we are introduced to Robert's hatred of Rhaegar and something he did to Lyanna. Of course, despite Robert's whining, Ned does not really seem to grudge Rhaegar as much.

Then they talk about Jon Arryn again. Interestingly enough. Bob claimed to have "loved that old man."

And Ned says they both loved JonA. I cannot remember Ned ever thinking or saying the same of his own father, although that may have been because of a lack of opportunity.

And next point, Robert talks of JonA's son, and how he was supposed to be fostered with Tywin Lannister.

Ned dislikes this. Ned clearly does not trust Tywin Lannister around children for some reason.

They talk some more, and then Bob discusses why he came to WF. Ned tries to distract Bob by talking about other things and jests. Ned suspects why Bob came to WF and Ned wants no part of it.

"You must have wondered why I finally came north to Winterfell, after so long." "Ned had his suspicions, but he did not give them voice. For the joy of my company, surely."

He says some other things, but really it all feels as though Ned is just circling and distracting.

Bob interrupts and discusses what he needs. He discusses JonA again and the conversation turns up with him choosing a new man to be Warden of The East. Not an Arryn as JonA's son was too young.

Bob then offers Ned to be his Hand.

"It was the last thing in the world he wanted."

Clearly he does not want the power. This is another thing that separates Eddard from many others. He is not very power hungry. We have the likes of Mace Tyrell and Tywin Lannister who go so far for power. Ned is not like them.

Then they discuss other things, Robert offers his son to Ned's daughter in a wedding, and Ned wants to talk to his wife about it.

But then Ned finally thinks.

"For a moment Eddard Stark was filled with a terrible sense of foreboding. This was his place, here in the north."

He clearly does not want to go down south.

END OF EDDARD I.

Conclusion?

Eddard is a family man. He seems to have a strong sense of empathy and caring.

That's the most I can add right now.

[Sansa_Stark]

CATELYN II ANALYSIS

Because why not.

So when they had finished, Ned rolled off and climbed from her bed, as he had a thousand times before.


And

"Her loins still ached from the urgency of his lovemaking. It was a good ache.

And

It had been three years since Rickon. She was not too old. She could give him another son

These quotes are important because they show a bit of the Cat/Ned relationship.

The first quote signifies that their sex life should be healthy. They have sex frequently. A sign of a healthy couple.

The second quote signifies that she enjoys it. Its not a disaster marriage sex life like Robert/Cersei. Its consensual and healthy.

The third quote signifies that she clearly loves Eddard and that a strong bond exists between them.

I will refuse him and "My duties are here in the north. I have no wish to be Robert's Hand

Ned once again shows that he does not want power or handship, and that he just wants to be with his family in the north.

Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man"!

This quote signifies how close Robert and Eddard are or were. Ned claims that they were closer than brothers. A clear sign that he had a better relationship with Robert than Brandon or even Benjen really. Cat warns Ned that he only knew young Robert, not the modern day Robert. Then the conversation somehow shifts to involve Brandon.

That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."

Utterly odd. Brandon was a fool. Ned later brings up the wolfs blood in a Arya chapter IIRC. He acknowledges that its what killed his siblings so early. And yet, he cannot help but feel bitterly about Brandon in some way. I am genuinely stumped by why Ned said this. But I believe it had something to do with an inferiority complex with his older brother or jealousy.

Eddard Stark had married her in Brandon's place, as custom decreed, but the shadow of his dead brother still lay between them, as did the other, the shadow of the woman he would not name, the woman who had borne him his bastard son.

So, the issue of Brandon does still haunt Ned and Cat's relationship in some way or form. In what way though? Even i don't know.

But besides that, this quote is when Cat acknowledges her problems with Ned' "bastard" and her issues with it.

While it is true, I noted that Ned and Cat had a healthy relationship, both Brandon and spoilerslyannalolspoilers seem to lie between her and Ned. I just realized that this might be foreshadowing for R + L = J. Both of Ned's dead siblings(technically Cat is thinking of Lyanna) are the shadows between Ned and Cat. Its not a perfect marriage, but a believable one with flaws, but still very strong.

The chapter then shifts to Luwin and he brings the message and Catelyn finds out it was a letter from her sister Lysa accusing the Lannisters of murdering her husband. Ned is reluctant to believe it. He dismisses Lysa's accusations as she must be mourning too hard to think correctly. Catelyn then tells him he is wrong and that he must accept Robert's offer. But Ned still doesn't want to.

Both Luwin and Cat try their hardest to convince Ned to go.

My father went south once, to answer the summons of a king. He never came home again.

Explains why he doesn't like the south or doesn't want to go to KL. His dad went south to a King's call and never returned.

However, Ned realizes he must go and then they discuss plans for their children. They discuss that Robb is close to being a man and that he must be taught to rule. Ned wants to bring Bran, Sansa and Arya to KL. But discounts Rickon due to his age.

He talks of bringing Bran to KL because of his likable nature and justifies it as Ned was only a little older when he was fostered.

Then Luwin brings up Jon.

Catelyn is angered by the mere mention of his name. Completely destroying a touching moment between Ned and Cat. He was literally kissing tears from her eyes and then she got mad. Of course, this is the biggest wrench in the Cat/Ned relationship. Cat notes her jealousy of the potential love that Ned has for another woman, and notes that although she loved her husband, she could not look past it.

Cat acknowledges Ned's honor though.

The Starks were not like other men.

Cat and Ned's relationship was troubled because Ned raised his "bastard" up with his trueborns. Cat would not have had issue if he did not raise him at WF.

END OF CATELYN II

[Arya kiddin']

:o

This is a monumental task, doing a re-read alone. I do congratulate you on taking it on. I'll comment properly once I get home. :) :leaving:

[Annara Snow]

I'm not sure how Robert came to believe that Jon wanted Sweetrobin fostered with the Lannisters, since we later find out that the plan was to foster him with Stannis (probably with the hope of eventually arranging a marriage to Shireen).

Ned was completely right to think no children should be entrusted to Tywin, not just because he has no problem ordering the murders of children, but because of what an awful father he is to his own children, not that Ned would know that.

Execution of Gared:

When we are first introduced to Eddard in AGOT, he is about to execute the deserter Gared. Now while at first we may have been quick to judge Eddard to execute an "innocent" man, the truth is the man deserted, and by law Eddard was justified in executing him(in universe).

He brings his 2 older sons and his nephew along. Interestingly, he does not let Arya or Sansa come, despite them being older than Bran. I guess this is a sign that Ned is prejudiced against women a bit(something I'll discuss later on a little more) but still, he's a lot better than many others.

Now in this first chapter we are introduced to Eddard's famous quote.

An interesting quote. It suggests and states that Eddard does not just execute people without thought. This is a big part of what separates him from the likes of Tywin and Jaime and nameless others. They just hang/execute people and go about their day. When Eddard executes, he gives the man a chance to speak his final words.

This also supports the above, why would Eddard go to his godswood every time he executes a man? Eddard is not the type to just execute and forget about it. Ned sees the value in human life. Even a deserter like Gared.

After Cat finds him in the godswood praying. She calls out his name. After Ned acknowledges she is there, Ned asked

and Cat notes "He would always ask her that"

Now, when you consider all of this, its clear to see that Ned is a very family orientated man. Executing a criminal in front of his sons might seem barbaric, but it seems that Ned is trying to raise his sons to be what is considered strong and "manly" for their cultures standards.

Here Ned expresses slight disappointment at Rickon for being afraid of his direwolf. Its the same logic and belief that let's Ned believe its okay for a young boy(Bran) to watch an execution. Seems odd to judge a 3 year old like that, but its the world they live in I guess.

Ned (the pater familias of the Starks) is the polar opposite of Tywin (the pater familias of the Lannisters), who always has others do his dirty work for him.

Ned is essentially a traditionalist, but he's flexible - he isn't the type to challenge the rules himself, but he doesn't begrudge people who do, and is ready to support and indulge Arya's unconventional interests, even though he thinks of it as youthful fun she'll eventually grow out of (although this is a subject for a later chapter).

Bringing your 7-year old son to watch an execution, but not your daughters, who are a few years older, and expecting a 3-year old boy to be unafraid, are clear signs of the mentality of his society, which expects males, even young boys, to be strong and "manly".

The same is not expected of girls, so Sansa and Arya are not taken to watch an execution, even though they are older than Bran, and Arya is tomboy with interest in "boys'" activities. Is this because it's believed that the "tender hearts of women" couldn't endure to see a person dying, or that it's simply not their place to be there and that they should have the "tender hearts" that cannot endure to see a person dying? Are they expected to faint and cry, while it would be intolerable for a boy to do the same? Ironically, some time later, in King's Landing, Ned's eldest, ladylike daughter Sansa does, nevertheless, get to see a man dying, for the first time in her life - Ser Hugh of the Vale, "accidentally" and gruesomely killed by Gregor Clegane at the tournament in her father's honor; and she doesn't cry or faint, but thinks that this is wrong and that she probably should, the way her friend Jeyne Poole does. Three young POV characters get to see a person's death for the first time early on in AGOT: Bran in his first chapter, Dany in her second (during the wedding, when one of the Dothraki kills another), and Sansa in her second. II don't remember if Arya got to see anyone die before Ned's arrest in KL? I think she did not, but it's safe to say she was not the type to have emotional meltdowns over it.) Neither of them cries or faints or has a big emotional reaction; Dany thinks it's an awful thing to happen, but she doesn't show anything. She can't show anything, because she can't appear weak in front of the Dothraki. Bran does not seem to have any reaction, and he's not supposed to, being a boy - he's expected to be manly. Only Sansa thinks that she's supposed to be having a big emotional meltdown over a complete stranger dying - and, oddly enough, only Sansa gets slammed by the fandom for not having that emotional meltdown, which is seen as a sign of her being callous or even a "psychopath" (!) by some, while I haven't seen anyone slam Bran, who is just 7, for taking Gared's death in stride and not having a big emotional reaction to it. Is it just Ned who has somewhat of a traditionalist, sexist view, or can the same be said of many of the readers? Or do the readers tend to take the characters' thoughts literally, and assume that Sansa should have had a big emotional reaction because she wonders why she doesn't (as a girl and a lady) while Bran never thinks he should (as a boy who's supposed to be manly)? Food for thought...

This quote signifies how close Robert and Eddard are or were. Ned claims that they were closer than brothers. A clear sign that he had a better relationship with Robert than Brandon or even Benjen really. Cat warns Ned that he only knew young Robert, not the modern day Robert. Then the conversation somehow shifts to involve Brandon.



Utterly odd. Brandon was a fool. Ned later brings up the wolfs blood in a Arya chapter IIRC. He acknowledges that its what killed his siblings so early. And yet, he cannot help but feel bitterly about Brandon in some way. I am genuinely stumped by why Ned said this. But I believe it had something to do with an inferiority complex with his older brother or jealousy.



So, the issue of Brandon does still haunt Ned and Cat's relationship in some way or form. In what way though? Even i don't know.

Ned really does seem to have a feeling of inferiority about his elder brother, and perhaps some resentment, too. Maybe Brandon did indeed have sex with Ashara Dayne, the girl Ned may have had a crush on? Ned also probably noticed that Catelyn was disappointed when she first met him, expecting him to be more like his brother. Brandon was taller, better-looking, more confident, more charismatic, but also impulsive,"wild" and hotheaded, and a womanizer. Which actually sounds a lot like Robert Baratheon. But Ned is close to Robert, in the way he never seemed to be close to Brandon. It's as if, in a way, Robert was a version of his brother than Ned could be close to and who really loved him and needed him, and perhaps didn't make him feel inferior. While Robert found in Ned a brother he could love the way he couldn't love Stannis.

It's indeed odd that Ned thinks of Brandon as the one who was meant to be the lord of WF, when he also recognizes that Brandon was too impulsive for his own good and that his actions lead to his early death. But Ned also needs time and obvious evidence to acknowledge just how incompetent to rule Robert is. Both Brandon and Robert, first sons and charismatic "alpha males" as we would say (though I hate that expression, it may be appropriate for Brandon, since the Starks are always compared to wolves), seem to be the personality type that's great at attracting people but awful at accepting responsibility, ruling and making decisions.

[robert_was_the_true_steel]

I think the reason Ned only takes his sons to see the execution is more specifically that highborn men are expected to rule than just that they are supposed to be tough. Ned frames the execution as a lesson in the weight of the responsibilities that Bran will have to take on one day when he is Robb's bannerman. Women in the Seven Kingdoms (aside from Dorne) are not generally allowed to rule in their own right, so these lessons don't serve any purpose for them. It's definitely part of a misogynistic culture where women aren't much more than property to most people, but I don't think that women not being able to handle it emotionally is the main reason Ned doesn't take Arya and Sansa.

[Annara Snow]

I think the reason Ned only takes his sons to see the execution is more specifically that highborn men are expected to rule than just that they are supposed to be tough. Ned frames the execution as a lesson in the weight of the responsibilities that Bran will have to take on one day when he is Robb's bannerman. Women in the Seven Kingdoms (aside from Dorne) are not generally allowed to rule in their own right, so these lessons don't serve any purpose for them. It's definitely part of a misogynistic culture where women aren't much more than property to most people, but I don't think that women not being able to handle it emotionally is the main reason Ned doesn't take Arya and Sansa.

You're right, Ned doesn't expect his daughters to have to see a lot of men executed or murdered in front of them, or to have to deal with the responsibility of taking a life. Which is ironic when you know what will happen to them and that they'll be seeing lots of deaths, and Arya will be taking lives since the age of 9.

[Chaircat Meow]

Where does it say Robert thought fostering Robin at CR was Jon's wish?

What happened, afaik, was that Cersei or Pycelle raised the issue as soon as Jon was dead, and Robert agreed, and so did Tywin. It would appear that either Robert did not know Jon intended to foster Robin on Dragonstone, or he just went against Jon's wishes to please Cersei and Tywin.

[Old Ida]

Where does it say Robert thought fostering Robin at CR was Jon's wish?

What happened, afaik, was that Cersei or Pycelle raised the issue as soon as Jon was dead, and Robert agreed, and so did Tywin. It would appear that either Robert did not know Jon intended to foster Robin on Dragonstone, or he just went against Jon's wishes to please Cersei and Tywin.

As seems to be Robert habit to do, all the Lannisters asked for, Robert gave in to them.

But I wonder why Ned wanted to take most of his children with him to KL. Tywin was the Hand for a long time but his children stayed at CR until Jamie joined the KG. Ned is not likely to make Arya ladylike and although he likes Bran to make friend to Tommen, I can´t see the need too.

And that would have made 3 wolfs in KL wish is not wise. Sansa had to go of course and Lady, the good wolf. With Sansa went Septa and Jaynie and more of his household. Arya would have had good time to bind better with her mother and be the daughter in the House I think.

But then there would have been a different story :(

[Rysler]

As seems to be Robert habit to do, all the Lannisters asked for, Robert gave in to them.

But I wonder why Ned wanted to take most of his children with him to KL. Tywin was the Hand for a long time but his children stayed at CR until Jamie joined the KG. Ned is not likely to make Arya ladylike and although he likes Bran to make friend to Tommen, I can´t see the need too.

And that would have made 3 wolfs in KL wish is not wise. Sansa had to go of course and Lady, the good wolf. With Sansa went Septa and Jaynie and more of his household. Arya would have had good time to bind better with her mother and be the daughter in the House I think.

But then there would have been a different story :(

Yeah, fostering Sweetrobin at Casterly Rock seems like a Lannister idea. Snatching a fatherless heir to be fostered by Tywin would certainly win them some influence over the Vale. Robert probably bought that easily enough, since he sees that Sweetrobin needs a father figure and seems to respect Tywin to some degree.

Ned talked about which kids to take to King's Landing with Catelyn. Sansa was an obvious choice, Arya "needed to learn the ways of a lady" and Bran was to befriend the princes with his likable personality. There was some tensions between Joffrey and Robb, and Ned wanted to make sure the two Houses would remain as friends. That'd be hard if the heirs hated each others guts.

Not sure about the wolves, though. I suppose the children wouldn't part from them and there was some talk that they were sent by the gods...

By the way, this is a grand thing you're doing, OP. I've been meaning to re-read Ned myself, but haven't quite gotten to it...

[Sansa_Stark]

Snip

Thanks for this post. I don't doubt that there is a sexist view among many readers. Its very ingrained and blatantly obvious even on this site when you consider Dany's infatuation with Daario is considered a massive flaw. I don't really think people were being serious about the Sansa thing though. It felt like blatant trolling.

And I too am of the opinion that Brandon did have sex with Ashara. Interesting note of how similar Brandon and Robert were, and yet Ned still befriended Robert so well.

[Sansa_Stark]

Sorry for the delay.

I haven't been feeling all that good lately and haven't even gotten non-asoiaf reading done.

Hopefully I will finish Eddard III by tomorrow(I posted this to not welch out) :)

[Sansa_Stark]

EDDARD II

The chapter starts with Ned being woken up by Alyn. Robert and Ned start to talk again and start to ride of from the main group.

When Robert speaks of the wheelhouse being damaged, Robert talks of burning it down so Cersei has to walk.

"Ned laughed. "I will gladly light the torch for you."

Here Ned shows his ingrained dislike for the Lannisters again. Even Cersei does not seem exempt.

Robert talks about him and Ned just going on off as their own as vagabonds. You know, living the life alone without real responsibility.

Would that we could," Ned said, "but we have duties now, my liege....to the realm, to our children, I to my lady wife and you to your queen. We are not the boys we were."

"You were never the boy you were," Robert grumbled. "More's the pity. And yet there was that one time..."

"You know the one I mean, your bastard's mother?"

These quotes show Ned's lack of womanizing. He is the second son of one of the most powerful lords in Westeros. It seems as though Ned may not have had a sex life until he married Catelyn. What Robert is talking with “that one time” is probably non existent seeing as how Ned never fathered a bastard. In fact, the way I read this quote, it seems to me that Ned is lying to Robert about this one woman. Even despite his reputaion of honor and honesty, even Ned Stark is not above lying to protect the ones he loves.

Robert and Ned then go out to the barrows, and then start to discuss a report from Varys.

Seems as though Jorah Mormont(a former lord and a slaver) is spying for Robert.

"As the Mormonts were bannerman to the Starks, his crime had dishonored the north.

and

So the slaver has become a spy,"

and

I would rather he become a corpse.

Its clear that Ned cares deeply about honor. As shown by the first quote. And he has a hatred towards slavery and slavers. Funny enough he seems to begrudge Jorah Mormont.

They discuss Daenerys and how she is being wed to a Dothraki horselord. Ned jokes of giving her a present, Robert responds by implying he wants her killed.

Ned did not feign suprise; Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him.

Ned considers Robert's hatred of the Targaryens to be an oddity. And, really it is. Ned's father and brother were murdered by the Mad King. Ned has lot more to the Targs than Robert did. Now, we know Robert seems to be under the impression that Rhaegar raped Lyanna hundreds of times and Ned does not express the same thoughts, it seems that the type of grudges Ned's seems to keep are those who are sneaky and shady and dishonorable, over those who actually do him or his family harm.

After all, he still grudges Jorah as shown in an above quote. He grudges the Lannisters. But he doesn't seem to grudge the Targaryens despite them doing harm to his family. It may be because of Jon or it may be because Aerys is dead, but it shows Eddard's belief in honor.

The conversation continues, Ned does not believe that the dothraki are a threat. They do not like the sea. Robert is still worried about the prospect of invasion, but Ned reassures him that most likely they won't, and even if they did, they would be thrown back. With the hep of a new Warden of the East. Ned then figures out that Jaime Lannisters is promised the honor.

Ned then voices his contmpt for the man by addressing him as the “kingslayer”

Ned is concerned. Tywin Lannister is the Warden of the West. And with Jaime as the Warden of the East Jaime would inherit both titles if Tywin died.

”He left unsaid his real concern; that the appointment would put half the armies of the realm into the hands of Lannisters”

Of course, what Ned fears the most is not one person having two of the titles, but the Lannisters gaining more power. Ned's distrust is pointed out even further.

Ned then questions if Robert can trust Jaime. Ironically Robert answers yes.

His sword helped taint the throne you sit on

Ned does not truly see the rebellion as an honorable thing. He took part in it, but his hatred for the Lannisters stems partially from this particular work. Ned did not know of the wildfire, and thus judged Jaime accordingly.

”He swore a vow to protect his king's own life with his own. Then he opened that king's throat with a sword

and

We were not Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard, Ned said.

Its clear Ned's contempt for Jaime comes directly from being an oathbreaker.

Not our men....”Lannister men.”

Ned does not want to associate his part in the rebellion with the Lannisters.

You were not there, Ned said, bitterness in his voice. Troubled sleep was no stranger to him. He had lived his his lies for fourteen year, yet they still haunted him at night. “there was no honor in that conquest”

Ned discusses the Sack of King's Landing. What he saw in the sack still rings bitterness in him even in AGOT. Of course, the lies he lived clearly are referring to R+L=J.

He then states that the conquest had no honor, no doubt referring to how treacherous the sack was and the killing of Rhaegar's children.

You avenged Lyanna at the Trident,” Ned said, halting beside the king. Promise me, Ned, she had whispered.

Funny use of words, Avenged Lyanna? Another promise me from Lyanna. I think he might have PTSD.

He then discusses finding Jaime in the throne room and how he sat on the throne

”He belonged in Winterfell. He belonged with Catelyn in her grief, and with Bran.

“A man could not always be where he belonged, though. Resigned, Eddard Stark put his boots into his horse and set off after the king.”

Neds sense of duty is shown again. He would honestly rather be with his wife and have his children all together. That's not possible, because he has a duty to his king and to the realm.

[Annara Snow]

Ned considers Robert's hatred of the Targaryens to be an oddity. And, really it is. Ned's father and brother were murdered by the Mad King. Ned has lot more to the Targs than Robert did. Now, we know Robert seems to be under the impression that Rhaegar raped Lyanna hundreds of times and likely Ned is not of a similar opinion, it seems that the type of grudges Ned's seems to keep are those who are sneaky and shady and dishonorable, over those who actually do him or his family harm.

After all, he still grudges Jorah as shown in an above quote. He grudges the Lannisters. But he doesn't seem to grudge the Targaryens despite them doing harm to his family. It may be because of Jon or it may be because Aerys is dead, but it shows Eddard's belief in honor.

Well Ned has no reason to hate Dany or Viserys, they did nothing to him. They did nothing to Robert, either, but Robert extends his hatred to every member of the Targaryen family, including the children, which Ned finds disturbing, with a very good reason - it is disturbing. (It's also particularly weird and somewhat hypocritical, since Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen, which is what his "claim" to the throne is derived from.) From the way Ned thinks of Rhaegar in some of his chapters, it seems that he doesn't hate him, either, and even compares his positively to Robert at one point (in a later chapter) - which would be weird and inexplicable if Rhaegar did kidnap and rape his sister, but is perfectly normal if Ned knows that this is not what really happened. He has reasons to hate the Mad King, but he's long been dead.

Ned dislikes the Lannisters because he finds them sneaky and doesn't trust them, but he doesn't want them dead, the way Robert wants the Targaryens dead. And he certainly doesn't extend his hatred to their innocent children like Myrcella and Tommen. We see later that he even gives Cersei an opportunity to save herself and the children, and doesn't even want her dead, or Joffrey, whose bad character he's already aware of. In fact, this act of mercy proves to be his fatal mistake.

His hatred of Jorah is stronger, because Jorah has committed a crime for which Ned despises him, selling people into slavery; and possibly also because Ned feels responsible for the crimes of his bannermen. He wants to be a good lord to all the people, including the smallfolk, of the North, and Jorah sold some poachers into slavery ("lice-ridden poachers" as Jorah contemptuously describes them to Dany in AGOT - as if being poor and needing to poach in order to have something to eat makes them worthless as human beings, and fit to be sold as objects by Jorah so he could get more gold to buy pretty things for his wife) instead of sending them to the NW.

[Maester Crypt]

I applaud your attempt at an analysis of Eddard, as he is the most difficult character to understand. All of what shaped him into the man we see in GOT occurred before and during the war. We are only giving glimpses of his past through his own POVs. The most important events, Tourney of Harrenhal, Lyanna's "abduction", and the Tower of Joy, we get a little understanding of what might have occurred throughout the books from various sources. In your OP you state, "he is a tragic hero, destroyed by his own honour." I do agree with this somewhat but essentially he was killed because of his belief or trust that others had honour. Much of Ned's honour was forged from his experiences before and during the war. If you try to look back and see what lessons shaped him, it gives a better understanding why he did the things he did in a GOT.

An example with the execution. Someone mention it above that is was a lesson for Bran about ruling and the responsibilities that entails. He who swings the sword, must look them in the eye and hear their words, if you cannot then perhaps the man does not deserve to die. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is. Ned is telling Bran this because Bran will one day be Robb's bannerman, hold a keep and dispense justice. Robb and Jon have been taught this lesson before as Jon told Bran to not look away because father will know. Ned's conversation in the godswood with Cat afterwards confirms he was watching Bran's reaction. This lesson about ruling has probably been past down from generation to generation to the Starks. What the conversation with Bran also illuminates is how Ned must have felt at 18 when he was at the Tourney of Harrenhal. His future was going to be a bannerman for his brother Brandon, and holding a keep most likely.

[Arbor Wino]

For the most part, I loved Eddard. He was placed in the hardest of spots right from the beginning of the series. He is "asked" to go to King's Landing to serve as the hand of the king. Then he is expected to give Cersei a direwolf in return for Joffrey's being injured (which, in a way, served Sansa right; she should have told the truth). He was unable to extract himself from the claws of the Lannisters and died because of it. I also did not mind the sexist views as much as I might have, because the culture of Westeros had been in place forever. Sure, I had to grin and bear the beddings and the rapes and all, but so did every other female who read the series.

If I had to chalk up one black point on Eddard's moral character, it would be his treatment of Catelyn in regard to Jon Snow. Catelyn deserved to know who Jon Snow's mother was. He cheated on her, brought home a bastard child, and expected her to deal with it, all of it. The least he could have done would be to tell her the truth regarding Jon's mother. Sexist culture or not, I do no think I would have let him under my skirt without losing a finger or an eye until he told me what happened. Then again, I love babies to death and could never blame a baby for its existence. I would have doted on Jon, even while kicking Eddard in the changepurse.

I think Eddard's refusal to be open about Jon's mother was also a driving force behind Catelyn's resentment of Jon. She most likely hated him more than she might have. Jon was not just a physical representation of Eddard's betrayal, but he was also a physical reminder that Eddard purposefully blocked Catelyn out of this part of his life, and it was incredibly selfish of Eddard to do this, as he did it at his beloved's expense. Not cool, Eddy.

[Annara Snow]

If I had to chalk up one black point on Eddard's moral character, it would be his treatment of Catelyn in regard to Jon Snow. Catelyn deserved to know who Jon Snow's mother was. He cheated on her, brought home a bastard child, and expected her to deal with it, all of it. The least he could have done would be to tell her the truth regarding Jon's mother. Sexist culture or not, I do no think I would have let him under my skirt without losing a finger or an eye until he told me what happened. Then again, I love babies to death and could never blame a baby for its existence. I would have doted on Jon, even while kicking Eddard in the changepurse.

I think Eddard's refusal to be open about Jon's mother was also a driving force behind Catelyn's resentment of Jon. She most likely hated him more than she might have. Jon was not just a physical representation of Eddard's betrayal, but he was also a physical reminder that Eddard purposefully blocked Catelyn out of this part of his life, and it was incredibly selfish of Eddard to do this, as he did it at his beloved's expense. Not cool, Eddy.

I'm one of the many people who believe that Ned did not cheat on Cat, and that he had a very good reason for keeping Jon's parentage a secret from everyone, even Cat. I always wished she could find out the truth one day. I guess it's still possible...

[Bluecore]

I just began my first re-read of the series, here is one of the things that stuck out to me so far.

As the group comes back from the execution of Gared, Robb comes across the dead direwolf and its pups. The implications of coming across it dead, with a stag's horn buried in its throat, are apparent among the group on at least some level (no dialogue on the issue is exchanged). The immediate conclusion by Ned (and everyone else but his children) is that the pups must be killed, to spare them the slower, more harsh death of starvation and winter. However, Jon intervenes with the analogy of the pups being akin to the 5 stark children. Ned immediately changes his tune, and allows them to not only be spared, but kept by his own children as their caretakers.

However, four pages in to Catelyn's chapter, the following is written: "Dread coiled within her like a snake, but she forced herself to smile at this man she loved, this man who put no faith in signs."

Does Catelyn still have, after all these years, that low of an understanding regarding the Northerners? In my mind, it is clear that those who follow the old gods are much more receptive to things like signs, superstition and omens than those who follow the Seven. Does this speak to the distance that still exists between Catelyn and Ned, or Catelyn and the North in general, after being there for so long? This is clearly contradictory, but is it more of an indictment of Catelyn or of Ned? Or, does it merely suggest that at that point when the dead direwolf is discovered, that things are in motion, that things are already beginning to change that were not as they were before? Perhaps it is an early indication of the relative Atheism and/or Agnosticism among Southerners compared to Northerners that permeates the book through characters such as Tyrion, Jaime, etc.

I am only 40 pages in, but I am going through my book with a highlighter this time around, reading much slower, and taking notes as I go. This is just one of the things I picked up on.

Something else I am thinking about during this scene: "The count had come right only because Jon had omitted himself." Next page, "Bran thought it curious that this pup (Ghost, the albino) alone would have opened his eyes while the others were still blind." I think there is something to be said about Jon intentionally omitting himself from the Starks, even at this early stage, and the fact that his direwolf alone had moved beyond the blindness of birth. Was it born first, and thus overcame the blindness first; to suggest that Jon may be older than Robb?* Probably not, just throwing out ideas. Or, a possible foreshadowing of his discussion with Benjen Stark and his decision to take the Black, and alienating himself from the rest of the family?

* Disregard the following: I am only leaving it here so I don't make someone who responded to it look silly: it's a wash :) This is potentially significant because if he is older than Robb, he is likely older than Aegon. If Aegon is who he says he is, and Jon is legitimized in some way moving forward, he becomes Rhaegar's heir ahead of both Aegon and Daenerys. Also assuming of course, that R+L=J. EDIT: Now that I think about it, Jon can't be older than Robb if R+L=J, but I'm keeping it here just in case I'm right for some reason, haha.