Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Now as we know that there is a *special* Knight’s code:a touch on the right shoulder with the blade. "In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave."The sword moves from right shoulder to left. "In the name of the Father I charge you to be just."Right shoulder. "In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent."The left. "In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women.... What a knight should do;BreakspearThis man protected the weak, as every true knight mustSansa said;Knights are sworn to defend the weak, protect women, and fight for the right, but none of them did a thing. My observation, when it comes to some of the True Knights (the Sword of the Morning & the White Bull) is that they had betrayed their Knight’s code in order to keep his oaths to the King, when the only one who questioned it was the Kingslayer. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. "You're hurting me," they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. "You're hurting me." In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted's screaming. "We are sworn to protect her as well," Jaime had finally been driven to say. "We are," Darry allowed, "but not from him."When the other KG stated that their duty was to the King and no one else After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, ‘You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.' That was the White Bull, loyal to the end and a better man than me, all agree. When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey. Even one of the true knights Ser Barristan the hypocrite saidOld or young, a true knight is sworn to protect those who are weaker than himself, or die in the attempt. So it seems that Sandor was rightThere are no true knights So my question is; why they are considered as true knights when they had betrayed their code? I have 2 possible scenarios a. they were protecting their lives and b. the people call them true knights not knowing that they had betrayed their code.What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Quote"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy the Ruin Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Quote"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another.:agree: had they decided to step in, Aerys would likely geld and execute them. Which would in turn piss off their powerful families, especially the Hightowers, Lannisters, and Martells, which could possibly lead to war. They chose to endure simply because in the long run it was the lesser of two evils. They could be kind and understanding to Rhaella and help take care of her and make her more comfortable, so it wasn't completely shit, not to diminish what she went through of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggetzor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There are no true knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeRhaegar Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There are no true knights. Ducan the Tall says HI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roddy the Ruin Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There are no true knights.Arthur Dayne says hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ducan the Tall says HI I think that it wasn't clear if Arlan knighted Dunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 A knight sworn to a dishonorable master is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Especially a white cloak, as they can't quit, unlike a regular sworn sword. Ducan the Tall says HI And what would Ser Duncan do if Aegon V suddenly went full Aerys and refused to listen to reason? Obeyed a madman (and dishonored himself), or mutinied against his king (and dishonored himself)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeRhaegar Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think that it wasn't clear if Arlan knighted Dunk. don't matter everyone still recognized him as one. A knight sworn to a dishonorable master is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Especially a white cloak, as they can't quit, unlike a regular sworn sword. And what would Ser Duncan do if Aegon V suddenly went full Aerys and refused to listen to reason? Obeyed a madman (and dishonored himself), or mutinied against his king (and dishonored himself)? This is a guy who still attacked a prince of royal blood despite knowing the consequences, hell he went against a man who hired him because it was right. I would not be surprised if dunk went a cut the cord around Brandon throat and tell aerys he wasn't being a good king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggetzor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ducan the Tall says HI Forgot about him, i havent gotten around to reading his and egg's adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Taataaaa... I don't feel so alone anymore. The KG were shit! Despicable human beings, not the glorious ideals they are so often made out to be. Granted, they were between a rock and a hard place. But personally, I rate human decency way, way higher than a shitty oath to obey the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggetzor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Arthur Dayne says hi Him, Selmy and Hightower i love, They were close, but i'm not convinced, i would have done as Jaime did which is in no way a true knight, as is not standing by watching innocents die, they were most honorable and i really like them, but there are no true knights. Call me cynical .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I will never understand how people can say Arthur Dayne or Gerold Hightower are badasses. They are disgusting hypocrites who deserved to die for the pain and suffering they stood by and allowed. Ser Duncan the Tall is the only true knight. I've only read The Hedge Knight, so I don't know if that changes for him, but as of right now he is what all of them should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valyrian Spoon Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Jaimes got the right of it, A tangled system of oaths means that someone always ends up let down. Take Roberts Rebellion for example, the knights and Lords under the rebels either betrayed there liege lord or their King. also Aerys Targaryans Kings Guard wasn't some bastion of honour. It was just seven complete badasses at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Arthur Dayne says hi Being a badass swordsman doesn't make one a good knight. The Mountain and Hound are badass swordsmen Not that I'm saying Dayne is as bad as them, or even a bad knight. But you should give reasons why you think he's a counterexample Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarkInWinterhell Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Why would Aerys Kings Guard not bother to protect their last king Jaehaerys II daughter'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeRhaegar Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Forgot about him, i havent gotten around to reading his and egg's adventures. man when you have time you need to get on that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggetzor Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Why would Aerys Kings Guard not bother to protect their last king Jaehaerys II daughter'? Yes, but not from him.- Jon Darry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Jamie acts very much like the definition of a "true knight" when he kills Aerys; he protects the realm, women children etc from harm. Before the uproar begins, I know he is by no means a 'true knight' but in this, he acted more honourably than his sworn brothers. I think Sandor may be correct, there are no true knights, largely because the definition of what a knight is, like all definitions, is so flawed. Also, Jamie's speech about all the vows you have to keep makes being an honourable and true knight near impossible. I wont speak about Duncan the Tall as I am yet to read Dunk and Egg (although I did finally purchase them! :D) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 don't matter everyone still recognized him as one. This is a guy who still attacked a prince of royal blood despite knowing the consequences, hell he went against a man who hired him because it was right. I would not be surprised if dunk went a cut the cord around Brandon throat and tell aerys he wasn't being a good king. If you remember, when they reached irreconcilable differences, Dunk quit working for Arlan of Pennytree. But a KG knight simply doesn't have that option, he'd have to choose between breaking a vow and breaking another vow. Hell, Jaime was once in that position and there simply was no honorable way out of it. His crappy choices were to murder Aerys or let Aerys murder everyone, none of which let him keep his honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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