Heresy 91

[Black Crow]

Welcome to Heresy 91, this week’s edition of the long running and currently very fast moving thread that looks behind the struggle for the Iron Throne to try and work out what’s really going in the over-arching Song of Ice and Fire

What makes Heresy so different and more vibrant and exciting than other threads is that while the theories discussed here have evolved and are often fiercely debated, in general we take a holistic approach. While we certainly look at the Dark Narnia beyond the Wall and the white walkers and other magical denizens in greater detail than on any other thread, we also look further afield and sometimes much further afield to see how they relate, or might relate, to other aspects of the story. Craster’s sons probably are indeed mad bad and dangerous to know, but regarding them as the ultimate danger is far too simplistic.

All in all, we can’t claim to know as much as we’d like to, far less definitively predict how this is all going to turn out, but I do think we can fairly claim that the ongoing discussion on these pages takes us far deeper into the story and into a far better understanding of the Song of Ice and Fire.

With Heresy 100 fast approaching Mace Cooterian’s centennial project, summarising the major heresies (disputed or otherwise) begins now with a contribution by Capon Breath on the Wall.

Over the coming week please add your own thoughts and favourite evidence on the subject. We are aiming to establish a certain degree of consensus on seven major themes of Heresy, but that does not require agreement. We may indeed for example be able to agree that Jon’s mother being Lyanna is more important than Rhaegar (possibly) being his father, but we don’t need to agree that Ser Puddles’ father was Craster. The object in this case is not to definitively identify whether of not the white walkers are Craster’s sons but rather to bring together our knowledge of them and the arguments in order to summarise both the issues and the evidence and let readers make up their own minds.

Next week’s topic in Heresy 92 will be the dodgy timelines.

In the meantime if you’re already actively involved in the Heresy business the thread needs no further introduction. Here’s a link to Wolfmaid's essential guide to Heresy: http://asoiaf.wester...uide-to-heresy/ but please don’t be intimidated. We’re very good at talking in circles and we don’t mind going over old ground again, especially with a fresh pair of eyes, so just ask.

Otherwise, all that we do ask of you as ever is that you observe the house rules that the debate be conducted by reference to the text, with respect for the ideas of others, and above all great good humour.

[Black Crow]

And so without further ado, here’s Capon Breath on…

THE WALL

So my role as OP is to introduce the topic and start the debate, with the ultimate aim of either a establishing an agreed Heresy stand point on the topic or at least agreeing what can be agreed and acknowledge the possibilities of things that cant be agreed. I fully expect I am the least well read, least well researched & least Erudite of the Heresy project OPers bit I’ll give it my best shot, so without further ado…. to the topic at hand :

THE PURPOSE OF THE WALL

To me one of 2 central mysteries to the series (the other one being what the blinking flip are the White Walkers up to).

Why is there a 700 ft high 300 mile long wall of ice in Westeros?

Who built it?

And what’s its for?

Thinking back those years to the beginning of Heresy when it was called “the wall the watch & a heresy” this was what got me involved in the thread, albeit to try and prove Black Crow wrong!

The currency of this debate is evidence. One of the beauties of Heresy is that thoughts can expand and get big to really push boundaries, one of the challenges of consensus is that things must get small again to reach agreement. So theory & speculation are welcome additions to the mix but it’s evidence and the removal of reasonable doubt that will win the day and drive consensus.

In the 90+ Heresies its seems that essentially 2 lines of thinking exist about the purpose of the wall 1 is that the wall is just that – a wall designed to keep someone or something out. The second is that it is some form of demarcation line or hinge, potentially between 2 realms.

Theory 1 – The wall is a wall:

All Walls exist for 1 reason and 1 reason alone, to keep someone or something on 1 side. Now in so doing a wall occasionally fulfils a 2ndry objective such as keeping someone else on the other side or acting as a demarcation, but we can be sure that our beloved wall, like all others exists to keep someone or something on 1 side. For the record this is my personal view.

Theory 2 - The wall is a hinge:

“Great was the Lore that raised it and great the spells locked beneath the ice. We walk beneath one of the hinges of the world.” Mels tells Jon in ADWD. ,

Can something as simple as the flow of traffic answer this question for us?

Some things we know as fact:

• Men can pass through the wall in both directions both through & over the wall.
  
• Giants can pass certainly from North to South.
  
• Ser Waymar et al passed through the gate at Castle Black & encountered WW
  
• Sam also went North via Castle Black and encountered both WW & Wights & coldhands
  
• Sam Subsequently came South through the Black Gate & encountered everyone he had previously left South of the Wall.
  
• The NW fire missiles from the top of the wall & hit & kill wildlings
  

Some things we are told in the books but can’t prove but seem very likely

• The COTF can pass in both directions through the wall. (GOHH & Leafs story about her Journeys)
  

And then the speculation

• White Walkers cannot pass from North to South. Can’t be proven but in the entire history of Westeros no W have ever been sighted South since the wall came into existence.
  

If the Wall is a hinge between 2 worlds then how can it be possible for people to go from North to South and even back again through different gates and encounter supernatural creatures and normal people? How can missiles fired from one side of the wall kill someone on the other if they are being fired into a different realm. Doesn’t work for me and interestingly Mel says Hinge of the world not worlds.

I’m not sure there is any substantial evidence to support the Hinge between worlds concept. There does appear to be evident supporting the notion of a defensive structure So assuming you agree that the purpose of the wall is to keep someone or something on one side that the MOST LIKELY group are the White Walkers and the MOST LIKELY side is in the North.

WILL THE WALL COME DOWN?

I guess it either will or it wont..!

Based on the argument that the Wall is there to keep out the White Walkers I guess if it does it’s pretty bad news. I am firmly in the camp that the WW are a deadly threat to humanity I think they are headed for the crypts of Winterfell – so named because it’s where the Starks originally defeated “Something” from the lands of always winter that made them kings of Winter. I think from a pure literary perspective it probably has to, why have WW in the prologue of the first book if they aren’t a major part of the story? Why have giant defensive wall to protect us from the baddies if it stays up the whole time?

More than once the wall is referred to as “The end of the world” Foreshadowing that it will come down with catastrophic consequences? The Watch is at its lowest ebb…and we know from Old Nan the wall will only hold if the men of the night watch stay true. We have been told about Chekovs sorry Joramuns Horn that can bring down the wall and we know of at least a couple of horns kicking around at the moment. Why introduce this if the wall is to stay up?

Does any of the above constitute evidence? I’m not convinced but there seem to be plenty of pointers that the wall is at risk of falling and I’m struggling to provide evidence or even an opinion that it will stay up.

WHO BUILT THE WALL?

So over the Heresies different options have been discussed but I don’t recall the concrete establishing of any “schools of thought” on the topic. (might be there is but there’s an awful lot of Heresy to get through to find it !) So let’s develop the consensus here…

Fact – it’s not possibly using Westerosi technology to build the wall without magic. Logical inference, magic built the wall. We have seen various forms of magic in the series with notably both humans & COTF showing some magical prowess.

Humans – assuming she is Human Mel is arguably the most powerful Human magic user we meet in the series with Bloodraven & Bran right up there involved in the debate. But none of these powerful 3 show anything like the capability on such a grand scale to erect the wall. Similarly the Warlocks in the HOTU show some magical capability but nothing on such a scale.

COTF – 2 x Hammer of the waters is surely all the proof we need that this magical race not only posses the magic on a global scale to build the wall but are the ONLY group we have seen during the series that are potential candidates. My own view on how they built it? They created a magical barrier that winter cannot pass, yes the wall is 300 miles of trapped winter flowing down from the land of always winter, this is why the wall gets higher ever year. This is also why the WW cannot pass as they are the embodiment of winter.

NOTABLE OTHER QUESTIONS

WHY DID THEY BUILD IT?

The trickiest question of all, I’ve tried to start to comment on this a couple of times and every time I do it becomes apparent that its very difficult to discuss it in isolation as it quickly becomes intrinsicly linked to the nature of the WW debate (if the wall is designed to keep out the WW and COTF built the wall then whats the relationship between the COTF & the WW…..) so lets park this for now and re-introduce it later if that’s OK?

THE BLACK GATE

I know the Black Gate is a great topic and one with a lot of interest that I don’t address through this OP there is so much to go with the questions at hand that I propose we park the Black gate and re-introduce it a little further into the debate.

[Forlorn Horpe]

Crackpot:

The Others are not the ultimate danger. Winter itself is. For basically natural reasons. The terrible tragedy isn't that nasty ice monsters are coming to murder us all. It's that a terrible series of wars have ripped through the land when everyone should have been preparing to endure the most severe winter seen in centuries, if not millenia. The men were off at war or died when they should have been harvesting. Obviously the North and the Riverlands were the most severely affected, but now the Reach, breadbasket of the South, is being attacked and sacked by Euron. Social order is breaking down as villages are burned, women raped, and children murdered. Nothing is sacred, and I think quite apart from the established religions we're going to see a profusion of cultish whack doodles a la the mystery cults that historically proliferated during the Crisis of the Third Century. Euron and his weirdo nihilism come to mind, and I think both the Faith of the Seven and R'hllor are going to fragment into heretical components.

So we already have war, population displacement and social upheaval. Then Grey scale and the Pale Male will likely hop over from Essos and spread rapidly among the roving refugees, all ready brutalized, half starved, and now, starting to freeze. Yes, the cold. People will be caught out in what likely be something like an arctic winter, without shelter, or food.

There will be no great stores of food. It rotted in the field when it should have been harvested, it was burned by scorched earth tactics, or gobbled up by armies on the march. The political strife and dislocation of the peasantry will be far too severe to reorganize them for farming, if that were even possibly in the middle of Winter. The The Winter Famine of Westeros will be a truly Malthusian catastrophe. The population will be at least halved by the time Spring rolls around. Probably more, and we even may see the collapse of most urban life without the political machinery, commercial activity, and vast quantities of food needed to maintain and operate cities.

I'd like to know what Dragons and White Walkers could do to top that. They're just symptoms of the turmoil.

For a historical parallel, look at the mid 6th century. There were a series of terrible wars between the East Romans and the barbarians; in Northwest Europe and Central Europe between the Germanic, Slavic, and Steppe tribes; in Britain between the natives, Anglo-Saxons and Gaels, in the Middle East between the East Romans, Arabs, and Persians; in Central Asia between the Persians and Hepthalites; in India between the Hepthalites and Indian kingdoms. These conflicts were not isolated theaters and were interconnected with one another.

Simultaneously there occurred extreme weather events that caused unseasonable cold and famine. Finally, a terrible epidemic, Justinian's plague, spread from China to the rest of the old World and utterly devastated settled populations. The political landscape was totally changed as a result.

[#Fire and Blood]

Crackpot:

The Others are not the ultimate danger. Winter itself is. For basically natural reasons. The terrible tragedy isn't that nasty ice monsters are coming to murder us all. It's that a terrible series of wars have ripped through the land when everyone should have been preparing to endure the most severe winter seen in centuries, if not millenia. The men were off at war or died when they should have been harvesting. Obviously the North and the Riverlands were the most severely affected, but now the Reach, breadbasket of the South, is being attacked and sacked by Euron. Social order is breaking down as villages are burned, women raped, and children murdered. Nothing is sacred, and I think quite apart from the established religions we're going to see a profusion of cultish whack doodles a la the mystery cults that historically proliferated during the Crisis of the Third Century. Euron and his weirdo nihilism come to mind, and I think both the Faith of the Seven and R'hllor are going to fragment into heretical components.

So we already have war, population displacement and social upheaval. Then Grey scale and the Pale Male will likely hop over from Essos and spread rapidly among the roving refugees, all ready brutalized, half starved, and now, starting to freeze. Yes, the cold. People will be caught out in what likely be something like an arctic winter, without shelter, or food.

There will be no great stores of food. It rotted in the field when it should have been harvested, it was burned by scorched earth tactics, or gobbled up by armies on the march. The political strife and dislocation of the peasantry will be far too severe to reorganize them for farming, if that were even possibly in the middle of Winter. The The Winter Famine of Westeros will be a truly Malthusian catastrophe. The population will be at least halved by the time Spring rolls around. Probably more, and we even may see the collapse of most urban life without the political machinery, commercial activity, and vast quantities of food needed to maintain and operate cities.

I'd like to know what Dragons and White Walkers could do to top that. They're just symptoms of the turmoil.

For a historical parallel, look at the mid 6th century. There were a series of terrible wars between the East Romans and the barbarians; in Northwest Europe and Central Europe between the Germanic, Slavic, and Steppe tribes; in Britain between the natives, Anglo-Saxons and Gaels, in the Middle East between the East Romans, Arabs, and Persians; in Central Asia between the Persians and Hepthalites; in India between the Hepthalites and Indian kingdoms. These conflicts were not isolated theaters and were interconnected with one another.

Simultaneously there occurred extreme weather events that caused unseasonable cold and famine. Finally, a terrible epidemic, Justinian's plague, spread from China to the rest of the old World and utterly devastated settled populations. The political landscape was totally changed as a result.

I agree that this will bring ultimate devastation to the peoples, but that is obvious. People will have little to no food. We already can see that north of the wall animals are becoming more scarce through the eyes of Summer and Ghost. We know that Stannis and his army were very quickly running out of food and just dying from being on the march.

But you combine this with the Others and the Wights coming down with that horrbile winter, it will lead to an extinction event if not stopped. The wights are raising from the dead, we still have living people at the wall, and in the North that are either fighting or preparing to fight. At some point in the books, I expect the Others and their minions (if that is in fact the case) will show up during a battle, once that happens.....the tide will turn quickly. Think of all the dead men, whether from starvation, the cold, or the battles. They will raise en masse and prove to be the ultimate piece that needs to be defeated. All of the things you mentioned certainly are very prominent issues, but if you combine that with what we have seen of Ice magic and its potential....it is highly exacerbated.

[wolfmaid7]

What is clear to me is the strong sense of Elemental magic and looking at the composition of the Wall there is evident representation of the lore that went into it.

My theory is that "The Wall" has attributes of Earth,fire,air,water and spirit and i think that it's building was done by more than just the COTF

According to Sam:

"Is the Wall as big as Craster use to say?" Gilly asked."Bigger". Sam tried to sound cheerful."So big you can't even see the castle's hidden behind it.But they're there you'll see.The Wall is all ice,but the castles are stone and wood(ASOS,Sam,pg.640).

Given this description and the nature of elemental magic and ofcourse GRRM's own statement about what the WWs can do with ice i believe that they contributed lore that went into enabling the ice structure to stand.

It is set deep in a wall of the well at the center of the kitchens and is made of white weirwood with a face on it. The face is old, pale, shrunken, and wrinkled with white eyes. The door glows.

Given the nature of the Blackgate it has heavy Earth undertone i theorize that the Gate was the contribution of the COTF,it's description does look like a "fae doorway" and i have no doubt that is what it is.As in most thing magic it needs a strong anchor and that doesn't get stronger than "blood". This is where i believe Man came in,it most likely is a GS and the human aspect is "spirit center/fire". I am neglecting the other Castles besides the Nightfort( giants may have help with this too)

Seeing as this theory is a combination of certain races the WWs being one,it was not built to keep them out. I believe without a doubt that they can pass through the wall,it's just that they have no reason (yet) to go pass it.

I believe the construction of the Wall is to keep the entity that raises the Wights(The cold),from heading south,it is attracted to death and with winter,disease,war about to sweep the land; if it gets pass the Wall then it will raise the dead and kill the dying and raise them in the South.

To sum up: Lore from the WWs,COTF with blood from man as an anchor and maybe help from the Giants when it comes to the NF were responsible for building the Wall.

[Melifeather]

I've got some quotes that may help sort some of the questions about the Wall.

Brandon the Builder is credited with building the Wall:

“I could tell you the story about Brandon the Builder,” Old Nan said. “That was always your favorite.” Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story…”

“Jon had never heard this tale before. “Which Brandon was this supposed to be? Brandon the Builder lived in the Age of Heroes, thousands of years before Bael.”

“Before them, the ice rose sheer from out of the trees like some immense cliff, crowned by wind-carved battlements that loomed at least eight hundred feet high, perhaps nine hundred in spots. But that was deceptive, Jon realized as they drew closer. Brandon the Builder had laid his huge foundation blocks along the heights wherever feasible, and hereabouts the hills rose wild and rugged.”

““Who holds this land?” Jojen asked Bran. “The Night’s Watch,” he answered. “This is the Gift. The New Gift, and north of that Brandon’s Gift.” Maester Luwin had taught him the history. “Brandon the Builder gave all the land south of the Wall to the black brothers, to a distance of twenty-five leagues. For their . . . for their sustenance and support.” He was proud that he still remembered that part. “Some maesters say it was some other Brandon, not the Builder, but it’s still Brandon’s Gift.”

“In legend, Brandon the Builder had used giants to help raise Winterfell, but Jon did not want to confuse the issue. “Men can build a lot higher than this. In Oldtown there’s a tower taller than the Wall.”

“Maester Aemon, calm as always, said, “Your Grace, the Night’s Watch has been choosing its own leader since Brandon the Builder raised the Wall. Through Jeor Mormont we have had nine hundred and ninety-seven Lords Commander in unbroken succession, each chosen by the men he would lead, a tradition many thousands of years old.”

How was it built and for what purpose?

“Why didn’t he come with you?” Meera gestured toward Gilly and her babe. “They came with you, why not him? Why didn’t you bring him through this Black Gate too?” “He . . . he can’t.” “Why not?” “The Wall. The Wall is more than just ice and stone, he said. There are spells woven into it . . . old ones, and strong.”

Perhaps the Wall was built using the same kind of magic as Storm’s End?

“…this Storm’s End is an old place. There are spells woven into the stones. Dark walls that no shadow can pass—ancient, forgotten, yet still in place.” “Shadow?” Davos felt his flesh prickling. “A shadow is a thing of darkness.” “You are more ignorant than a child, ser knight. There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows.”

It’s my suspicion they used blood sacrifice to work the magic. It’s one of my theories that the man Bran saw sacrificed near the heart tree at Winterfell was such a sacrifice:

“Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand. “No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.”

[JNR]

And so without further ado, here’s Capon Breath on…

THE WALL

Splendid work, Capon Breath. Enjoyed reading this very sensible, balanced analysis.

[Lord Ravenstark]

What are the requirements to lift or make a exception to the spells? In the first book we saw two wights being transported through the Wall, in the fifth Cold Hands was unable to follow Ser Piggy. I know he probably wasn't willing to go through but still...

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Before them, the ice rose sheer from out of the trees like some immense cliff, crowned by wind-carved battlements that loomed at least eight hundred feet high, perhaps nine hundred in spots. But that was deceptive, Jon realized as they drew closer. Brandon the Builder had laid his huge foundation blocks along the heights wherever feasible, and hereabouts the hills rose wild and rugged.

[Melifeather]

What are the requirements to lift or make a exception to the spells? In the first book we saw two wights being transported through the Wall, in the fifth Cold Hands was unable to follow Ser Piggy. I know he probably wasn't willing to go through but still...

The only exception we've witnessed is when the Night's Watch carried the wights through the Wall. Coldhands was unable to come through because of the spells. According to Melisandre, shadows cannot pass through walls. Perhaps Coldhands is a shadow?

[TheNorthernWarrior]

Jon's quote about foundation blocks and such is the most telling, because its an observation about the wall itself giving the hint to its formation and not just some legend. At the very least this implies there was an architect of sorts planning the wall and with efficiency in mind. Since the CoTF have yet to show any sort of building acumen, they seem to live in naturally formed cave systems, this heavily implies Humans were involved. I think this hints at a CoTF (magic), Human (design & planning) and Giant (Labour) partnership.

[Varmyr]

Hang on! I understand the need to explore a heretical view of the series and I applaud it but is there really a growing belief that abused women actually = abused Men and that the beatings, incest ,rapes and child sacrifice are all part of a plan hatched by Crasters wives?

Yes, people really are trying to mount this argument.

[GoldenVale]

What are the requirements to lift or make a exception to the spells? In the first book we saw two wights being transported through the Wall, in the fifth Cold Hands was unable to follow Ser Piggy. I know he probably wasn't willing to go through but still...

The only exception we've witnessed is when the Night's Watch carried the wights through the Wall. Coldhands was unable to come through because of the spells. According to Melisandre, shadows cannot pass through walls. Perhaps Coldhands is a shadow?

I find it odd that there possible exceptions at all. If the Wall was built specifically to keep out WWs and Wights then I don't see why you'd include any kind of exception (unless the exception is an unintended consequence).

I've once thought before that maybe the Wight Brothers got past the "barrier" because though they were Wights, they were still of the Night's Watch and the magic still recognized them as such.

Doesn't explain Coldhands I know, but Coldhands has always been more than a Wight.

[wolfmaid7]

What are the requirements to lift or make a exception to the spells? In the first book we saw two wights being transported through the Wall, in the fifth Cold Hands was unable to follow Ser Piggy. I know he probably wasn't willing to go through but still...

It seems that conditions need to be right for the Wights to be active,i deduce a dormancy period that is sensitive to Temp and time of day. I'm theorizing that they can be brought over the threshold during that period but not on their own.

CH's is dead and any walking dead won't be able to cross.

Jon's quote about foundation blocks and such is the most telling, because its an observation about the wall itself giving the hint to its formation and not just some legend. At the very least this implies there was an architect of sorts planning the wall and with efficiency in mind. Since the CoTF have yet to show any sort of building acumen, they seem to live in naturally formed cave systems, this heavily implies Humans were involved. I think this hints at a CoTF (magic), Human (design & planning) and Giant (Labour) partnership.

I agree with the ideology that there is a partnership that went into the wall. Because it is all ice with a wooded door that is kinda alive and the possibility of the NF i am thinking that the combo was: COTF,WWs,Giants,Man

I find it odd that there possible exceptions at all. If the Wall was built specifically to keep out WWs and Wights then I don't see why you'd include any kind of exception (unless the exception is an unintended consequence).

I've once thought before that maybe the Wight Brothers got past the "barrier" because though they were Wights, they were still of the Night's Watch and the magic still recognized them as such.

Doesn't explain Coldhands I know, but Coldhands has always been more than a Wight.

We don't know for sure that the WWs can't pass,i'm theorizing that they could.The wights for sure i think can't pass on their own.

[Melifeather]

I had a new thought after rereading what Melisandre told Davos about shadows being unable to pass through walls bound with spells. What if that's why the White Walkers want Craster's sons? Somehow their lives will allow them to pass?

[JNR]

Since the CoTF have yet to show any sort of building acumen, they seem to live in naturally formed cave systems, this heavily implies Humans were involved. I think this hints at a CoTF (magic), Human (design & planning) and Giant (Labour) partnership.

This is the same conclusion I've reached. If the CotF left any architecture anywhere in Westeros, it's not evident to me.

The premise that men played a part in the Wall is also directly supported by statements from Mormont that the First Men built the Wall and that blocks were quarried from lake ice to increase its size.

We also know from GRRM that the Wall took hundreds of years to complete and thousands of years to reach its current height. If it was built solely by the CotF, they certainly took their time.

But they did play their part as well, I think. We have excellent reason (Bloodraven's cave) to suppose that the CotF have warding magic; we have no such direct evidence that any other species does.

It doesn't seem much of a stretch to suppose they had such magic eight thousand years ago, and following the Long Night, they used it.

(This, in turn, implies that the CotF are not buddy-buddy with the Popsicles/wights and cannot control them. If they could, warding magic would not be needed.)

[Capon Breath]

I've got some quotes that may help sort some of the questions about the Wall.

Brandon the Builder is credited with building the Wall:

“I could tell you the story about Brandon the Builder,” Old Nan said. “That was always your favorite.” Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story…”

“Jon had never heard this tale before. “Which Brandon was this supposed to be? Brandon the Builder lived in the Age of Heroes, thousands of years before Bael.”

“Before them, the ice rose sheer from out of the trees like some immense cliff, crowned by wind-carved battlements that loomed at least eight hundred feet high, perhaps nine hundred in spots. But that was deceptive, Jon realized as they drew closer. Brandon the Builder had laid his huge foundation blocks along the heights wherever feasible, and hereabouts the hills rose wild and rugged.”

““Who holds this land?” Jojen asked Bran. “The Night’s Watch,” he answered. “This is the Gift. The New Gift, and north of that Brandon’s Gift.” Maester Luwin had taught him the history. “Brandon the Builder gave all the land south of the Wall to the black brothers, to a distance of twenty-five leagues. For their . . . for their sustenance and support.” He was proud that he still remembered that part. “Some maesters say it was some other Brandon, not the Builder, but it’s still Brandon’s Gift.”

“In legend, Brandon the Builder had used giants to help raise Winterfell, but Jon did not want to confuse the issue. “Men can build a lot higher than this. In Oldtown there’s a tower taller than the Wall.”

“Maester Aemon, calm as always, said, “Your Grace, the Night’s Watch has been choosing its own leader since Brandon the Builder raised the Wall. Through Jeor Mormont we have had nine hundred and ninety-seven Lords Commander in unbroken succession, each chosen by the men he would lead, a tradition many thousands of years old.”

How was it built and for what purpose?

“Why didn’t he come with you?” Meera gestured toward Gilly and her babe. “They came with you, why not him? Why didn’t you bring him through this Black Gate too?” “He . . . he can’t.” “Why not?” “The Wall. The Wall is more than just ice and stone, he said. There are spells woven into it . . . old ones, and strong.”

Perhaps the Wall was built using the same kind of magic as Storm’s End?

“…this Storm’s End is an old place. There are spells woven into the stones. Dark walls that no shadow can pass—ancient, forgotten, yet still in place.” “Shadow?” Davos felt his flesh prickling. “A shadow is a thing of darkness.” “You are more ignorant than a child, ser knight. There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows.”

It’s my suspicion they used blood sacrifice to work the magic. It’s one of my theories that the man Bran saw sacrificed near the heart tree at Winterfell was such a sacrifice:

“Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand. “No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.”

Thanks FeatherCrystal, great work on the quotes. Isn't there a SSM casting doubt over the existence of Bran the Builder? Something along the lines of he could just be a myth?

[Capon Breath]

I believe the construction of the Wall is to keep the entity that raises the Wights(The cold),from heading south,it is attracted to death and with winter,disease,war about to sweep the land; if it gets pass the Wall then it will raise the dead and kill the dying and raise them in the South.

To sum up: Lore from the WWs,COTF with blood from man as an anchor and maybe help from the Giants when it comes to the NF were responsible for building the Wall.

WolfMaid7 well articulated & coherent.

2 wights are raised through the wall which poses a challenge to the theory.

ETA I've spotted your dormancy response above.

[Capon Breath]

If there was a COTfF / human / Giant partnership to build the wall ( with or without the WW) would we expect a record or historical reference to such an alliance? A folk song " the day we all built the Wall"

Why would Giants help build the wall then agree to be left on the wrong side?

[Black Crow]

Thanks FeatherCrystal, great work on the quotes. Isn't there a SSM casting doubt over the existence of Bran the Builder? Something along the lines of he could just be a myth?

Don't have a link but here it is:

Oh, and he did mention that he put lots of legends into the books such as Bran the Builder. Bran the builder is supposed to have built the Wall, Winterfell, and Storms End. GRRM mentioned that he has become a legend so that people will look at a structure and say "wow, it must have been built by Bran the Builder" when it actually was not. This is GRRM's attempt on creating a world with myths and legends so if at some point you see, "They say it was built by Bran the Builder or Lann the Clever" realize that its part of the mythos.

If time is permiting would you mind giving a brief description on how the wall was constructed?

Much of those details are lost in the mists of time and legend. No one can even say for certain if Brandon the Builder ever lived. He is as remote from the time of the novels as Noah and Gilgamesh are from our own time.