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Unrealistic Battle Sequences


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171 replies to this topic

#1 LordFirkraag

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:00 AM

Probably what I like most about aSoIaF is the realistic depictions of violence. The messy, gritty, unromantic fights in which the laws of everyday life apply and no matter how good a swordsman you are, if you get stabbed from behind by some pussy that is the end of you. 

 

So it pisses me off to no end when I re-read aCoK and I find Tyrion at the Battle of the Blackwater mowing down Stannis' men left and right. He's just a midget, for Christ's sake. Where's Stannis' spearmen?

 

Are there any other silly, immersion-breaking battle sequences in aSoIaF or is it just Tyrion who is occasionally granted superhuman powers? I seem to remember that in aDwD Asha kills a crazy number of northmen at Deepwood Motte, as if they're orcs and the series is The Lord of the Rings.


Edited by LordFirkraag, 05 February 2014 - 10:02 AM.


#2 Raving Stark the Mad

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:18 AM

I think GRRM would take issue with there being unrealistic battle sequences.  Nevertheless one must understand the series is a work of fiction and Tyrion and Asha are heros, or of a heroic quality. 

 

Honestly, I think being a midget might actually be a plus on the battlefield if one is armored well.  I seem to remember that the average height of a roman legionary was around 5'5" compared to the average height of a german warrior of 6'2". 



#3 Sordelor

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:29 AM

There were indeed a lot of unrealistic battles in ASoIaF.

 

Also, people always talk about how much main character Martin kills of, but these battles show us the complete opposite.



#4 Bronn Urgundy

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:31 AM

Tyrion who has to be carried up steps suddenly becomes warrior supreme. Asha is levelled out, Middle Liddle wiped the floor with her.



#5 James Kidd

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:31 AM

Not exactly on the battlefield, but Theon taking Winterfell was quite unrealistic.



#6 Roose Boltons Pet Leech

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:36 AM

Not exactly on the battlefield, but Theon taking Winterfell was quite unrealistic.

 

It was a coup d'etat. Perfectly realistic, given the skeleton nature of Winterfell's defences.



#7 James Kidd

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:38 AM

 

It was a coup d'etat. Perfectly realistic, given the skeleton nature of Winterfell's defences.

 

Winterfell's weak defence is the unrealistic part. That's why I consider its taking to be something out of the ordinary.


Edited by James Kidd, 05 February 2014 - 10:44 AM.


#8 Raving Stark the Mad

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

LOL.  I'm not sure if he became a warrior supreme.  He surprised and rode down a number of men who had just crossed a river full of fire and had seen most of their friends killed and were entirely demoralized and frightened.  He never faced a determined or skilled opponent except in his first battle at the Green Fork, where he basically got lucky because he had a spike on his helmet. 



#9 Lord Voldemort's Toes

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:49 AM

I've only noticed that Tyrion has unreasonable battle sequences. No one else, really.

Asha's was fine. She was throwing axes, not cutting down foes one-on-one Brienne style.

#10 The hairy bear

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:05 AM

Tyrion's problem is caused by his small, stunted legs. His arms are fine. In fact, he has very strong arms. In the scene he is introduced in AGOT, we see him doing acrobatics and landing on his hands. And afterwards, he's able to strangle a healthy young woman.

 

You are wrong in assuming that Tyrion is a disabled man, when his weakness is restricted to his legs. If we put Tyrion on horse, this problem disappears. If you also take into account this that he was a fully armored, flanked by a two knights of the kingsguard, and fighting peasants, I don't find his charge at the Blackwater hard to believe.


Edited by The hairy bear, 05 February 2014 - 11:06 AM.


#11 Frey Pie

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:28 AM

Tyrion's problem is caused by his small, stunted legs. His arms are fine. In fact, he has very strong arms. In the scene he is introduced in AGOT, we see him doing acrobatics and landing on his hands. And afterwards, he's able to strangle a healthy young woman.

 

You are wrong in assuming that Tyrion is a disabled man, when his weakness is restricted to his legs. If we put Tyrion on horse, this problem disappears. If you also take into account this that he was a fully armored, flanked by a two knights of the kingsguard, and fighting peasants, I don't find his charge at the Blackwater hard to believe.

He also gets cramps in his legs from climbing stairs and walking and suffers from muscle spasms. Tyrions symptoms change quite a lot.

 

George IIRC has said he regrets making Tyrion such a badass. The shows version of the GF, as shitty as it was, is far more realistic

 

Edit: Sorry I misread you


Edited by Frey Pie, 05 February 2014 - 11:29 AM.


#12 Mourneblade

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:37 AM

Tyrion's battle scenes do have a literary realism to them, but adrenaline in battle can account for much of it. The only real issue is consistency, but in a work like this, that is impossible to maintain lol.



#13 RoamingRonin

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:38 AM

Tyrion in any battle. 

 

Asha and her ironborn in the woods. Mostly the naked girl who suddenly joins the fray after losing her virginity a nanosecond before the battle started. 

 

Barristan, Jorah and Daario sneaking through the sewers was an... interesting development. It seemed very video game-like. Especially with the giant albino sewer lizards. 


Edited by RoamingRonin, 05 February 2014 - 11:40 AM.


#14 Lord Stark

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:43 AM

LOL.  I'm not sure if he became a warrior supreme.  He surprised and rode down a number of men who had just crossed a river full of fire and had seen most of their friends killed and were entirely demoralized and frightened.  He never faced a determined or skilled opponent except in his first battle at the Green Fork, where he basically got lucky because he had a spike on his helmet. 


This, and to add to this. When your in the midst of battle, with helmets on, high restrict your vison a lot, I would say he wold have an advantage, as the now tired and scared enemy round be looking at the enemy in the chaos that is the battle, who are at their eye level, and likely wouldn't noticed him at all.

#15 The Silver Otter

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:45 AM

    Agree wholeheartedly but would you read about Tyrion's thoughts on the battlements or see him leading a host out?  Although The George has made Tyrion suffer he's still the poster child for ASoIaF and so he'll continue to do amazing things until the end of either the series or his life.  Remember Tyrion bought off the Mountain Clans from the Vale within ten minutes, he outsmarted the Small Council with Myrcella's wedding plans, figured out the perfect way to destroy the Mannis' fleet, and started DwD 2.0.  He's defintely OP with 15/10 INT but it keeps things interesting. 

 

  As for all the rest, it is a fantasy novel made to entertain, not a history by an old Soldier so kick back on that willing suspension of disbelief and enjoy.



#16 Stannis Eats No Peaches

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:52 AM

Tyrion in any battle, but mostly the Blackwater. Also, arrows shot to the top of a 700ft Wall and still being lethal...

#17 Anomaly

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

Tyrion who has to be carried up steps suddenly becomes warrior supreme. Asha is levelled out, Middle Liddle wiped the floor with her.

Lol :laugh: that's a keeper

Maybe he did a lot of crawling and leg biting too

Edited by CoraIM, 05 February 2014 - 12:18 PM.


#18 Lost Melnibonean

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:35 PM

Tyrion is like Yoda in Attack of the Clones. I'd like to see what he could with a lightsaber.

Seriously, in the confusion of battle involving hand-to-hand combat and with his foes not paying attention to him I really didn't have a problem with the way he fought. He was mostly whacking at people's legs and taking them from behind and such, no?

#19 Raving Stark the Mad

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:40 PM

It's not as if Tyrion was taking down the Mountain or slaying Arthur Dayne.  But apparently little people just get no respect in battle. 



#20 Anomaly

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:52 PM

It's not as if Tyrion was taking down the Mountain or slaying Arthur Dayne.  But apparently little people just get no respect in battle.


How disappointing

Edited by CoraIM, 05 February 2014 - 12:52 PM.