[BOOK SPOILERS] Stannis in the show

[Mos]

It's been said a lot of times before, but I think the viewers perception of Stannis will change once he gets to the Wall. Him crushing the wildling army and offering Winterfell to Jon are two major moments for his character. The following sentence comes to mind, from Sam IV:

"Few of the birds that Maester Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared."

I think that sentence sums Stannis up perfectly, as he's the only king able to see what really matters. Unfortunately, I'm afraid the casual viewer may not catch up on that, so I really hope, somehow, they include the line on the show.

[Belisarius09]

Anyone else a little worried about these teasers and saying there won't be the typical episode 9 climax like in previous seasons? Obviously we have other big events that chronologically need to happen earlier in the season like the PW and Tyrion's Trial. BUT that doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't have a climax at the battle at the Wall with Stannis and Jon.

All these *hints* and *teasers* saying there won't be a season ending climax like normal tells me that they're going to downplay the Role Stannis plays, they are going to steal his thunder in a moment that is supposed to be his crowning achievement, his moment in the sun.

I feel that because it isn't Dany, or the Stark/Lannister conflict, it's being downplayed. Stannis has not drawn a strong loyal following of TV fans like he has managed to do in the books. I fear the producers are taking note of this, and painting the fan favorite (Dany) as some great hero and making Stannis look more villainous.

There's no reason why there shouldn't be a climactic episode 9 this season as there have been in all three seasons past. Stannis flanking Mance Rayder and saving the wall is timed perfectly to be that climax. But it seems that scene won't be receiving its due.

[Blutraven]

Anyone else a little worried about these teasers and saying there won't be the typical episode 9 climax like in previous seasons? Obviously we have other big events that chronologically need to happen earlier in the season like the RW and Tyrion's Trial. BUT that doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't have a climax at the battle at the Wall with Stannis and Jon.

All these *hints* and *teasers* saying there won't be a season ending climax like normal tells me that they're going to downplay the Role Stannis plays, they are going to steal his thunder in a moment that is supposed to be his crowning achievement, his moment in the sun.

I feel that because it isn't Dany, or the Stark/Lannister conflict, it's being downplayed. Stannis has not drawn a strong loyal following of TV fans like he has managed to do in the books. I fear the producers are taking note of this, and painting the fan favorite (Dany) as some great hero and making Stannis look more villainous.

There's no reason why there shouldn't be a climactic episode 9 this season as there have been in all three seasons past. Stannis flanking Mance Rayder and saving the wall is timed perfectly to be that climax. But it seems that scene won't be receiving its due.

It sounds like they're having lots of episode 9 moments, not none. That's understandable considering how many episode 9 moments there are in the second hald of ASoS. It's going to be pretty hard to paint Stannis in an unfavourable light when he's saving the NW from annihilation. They also said that they're showing the Slave Cities revolt so they're going to be painting Dany more grey this season.

[King Tommen]

From all reports, E9 will be very similar to "Blackwater" in that they will stay there and not cut away for the entire episode. Neil Marshall will direct it as he did for "Blackwater". And D&D stated that it's the most expensive and largest in scope sequence they've ever done. It's going to be a huge deal.

The reason they're saying this season is different is that unlike other seasons, there's a bunch of other really exciting climaxes that occur throughout the season and it's not just building to one big event. The finale will be the biggest change since in previous years, it's been used as a "wrap-up/set-up" episode to come down from E9, whereas this season, 3-4 big cliffhangers/surprises will happen then.

Don't worry about E9 though, it's going to be huge.

[aFeastForDragons]

It's going to be pretty hard to paint Stannis in an unfavourable light when he's saving the NW from annihilation.

Yep!

And when he offers Winterfell to Jon STARK. Then liberates Deepwood Motte. Then marches on Winterfell to free it from bolton/Frey rule and rescue Arya.

How D & D thought Stannis is a villain I'll never understand.

[Blutraven]

Yep!

And when he offers Winterfell to Jon STARK. Then liberates Deepwood Motte. Then marches on Winterfell to free it from bolton/Frey rule and rescue Arya.

How D & D thought Stannis is a villain I'll never understand.

I think D&D's disdain for Stannis has been really exagerrated, all I've seen for it is one of them thinking he'd make an awful king which is fair enough.

[titanx5]

I was an unsullied until the beginning of s3, when I decided to read the books and I was a Stannis fan from the get go, so there will be some unsullied that would also have liked him from the get go.

Now there are certain things I do disagree with how he has been portrayed as mentioned by a lot of the guys already such as the beach scene with Mel, and the s3 finale (as they didnt show enough conflict within Stannis of what should be done), no dry humor shown, and basically Mel's puppet and not listening as much to Davos as Mel. Now Stephen Dillane does make portray Stannis pretty well, and it doesnt always come from what he says, but his eyes and posture, few episodes which I particularly liked was s02e08 with Davos of the ship discussing the Siege of SE, and how Robert forgot and gave SE to Renly, and duty. Then BW battle was incredible, in S3e05 and e08 where particularly good showing him being conflicted. I am optimistic that we will see a change in Stannis for the good in s4.

[King Tommen]

I think D&D's disdain for Stannis has been really exagerrated, all I've seen for it is one of them thinking he'd make an awful king which is fair enough.

Remember too with those Inside the Episode clips where Weiss mentioned that, they are commenting on how the audience should be feeling at that time, not necessarily on how the audience should feel in the future, with all the knowledge of what happens later on in the story. They aren't there to give an overall commentary on characters with 5 books worth of context, it would give things away.

The clip he's talking about is the parlay with Renly where Renly tells Stannis that he wouldn't be a good king and they're just reinforcing how we're supposed to feel given what little we know of the character at that point.

I think some fans are just extremely hypersensitive to anything said about their favourite characters and take things way too personally if there isn't unadulterated love given by all involved.

I'll actually be really glad when the show catches up to the books so that fans will not be able to criticize a characterization prematurely because all they've got in their head is how they feel about that character with 5 books of context as opposed to the 2 or 3 the show is working with.

[DaveyJoe]

Remember too with those Inside the Episode clips where Weiss mentioned that, they are commenting on how the audience should be feeling at that time, not necessarily on how the audience should feel in the future, with all the knowledge of what happens later on in the story. They aren't there to give an overall commentary on characters with 5 books worth of context, it would give things away.

The clip he's talking about is the parlay with Renly where Renly tells Stannis that he wouldn't be a good king and they're just reinforcing how we're supposed to feel given what little we know of the character at that point.

I think some fans are just extremely hypersensitive to anything said about their favourite characters and take things way too personally if there isn't unadulterated love given by all involved.

I'll actually be really glad when the show catches up to the books so that fans will not be able to criticize a characterization prematurely because all they've got in their head is how they feel about that character with 5 books of context as opposed to the 2 or 3 the show is working with.

:agree: I made this same argument when fans were criticizing the Mhysa scene and citing one of the producers behind the scenes quotes where he said it was an uplifting moment after the Red Wedding. Well... yeah, it's supposed to be a fist pumping moment in the books and right after that episode airs the producer isn't going to hint at how badly things are going to go for Dany in Essos. Too many readers over analyzing stuff like that when they have the gift of hindsight.

[Chuck88]

How D & D thought Stannis is a villain I'll never understand.

How so many people are convinced D&D feel this way I'll never understand. At this point in the books, Stannis is still very much of ambiguous morality at best. Of all the criticisms levelled at D&D, this one is among the most unfair. By the time this season ends, he will be a fan favourite among TV viewers as well.

[Draco_Dracul]

Also, being a bad king and being a villain are two very different things. Robert was an awful king, but not a villain. Tywin is villainous, but would probably do quite well as king.

[Khal-a-bunga]

It's funny that those same people who like to continually state that D&D hate Stannis often ignore the positive things D&D have said about him in both the Inside The Episode for Second Sons, and in their commentaries on the Blu-Ray's. Of course, bringing those up would upset their 'D&D hate Stannis' narrative.

[Queen of Whores]

It's funny that those same people who like to continually state that D&D hate Stannis often ignore the positive things D&D have said about him in both the Inside The Episode for Second Sons, and in their commentaries on the Blu-Ray's. Of course, bringing those up would upset their 'D&D hate Stannis' narrative.

Could you provide quotes of what they said? I'm not doubting you, I just haven't seen many of the Inside the Episodes or commentaries.

[DaveyJoe]

Could you provide quotes of what they said? I'm not doubting you, I just haven't seen many of the Inside the Episodes or commentaries.

Here it is, the Stannis quotes are in the first two minutes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7FsJZ_CGCI

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

Really like Stephen Dillane as Stannis. His appearance is differs from the canon, but I enjoy the differences. Love his voice and delivery of the lines too, sounds like a man who is quite strained with duty.

[Konradsmith]

Khal-A-Bunga is right here. I remember a similar "D and D hate Jaime" narrative two years ago.

EDIT: In the Foreshadowing feature we saw a glimpse of a Davos and Stannis scene in Dragonstone. If this is their scene in ep. one, we could make a few things clear. If Stannis were to say, "When I was to kill you, I would have done it myself, he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." That would establish that he wasn't simply going to throw away his friends life but was doing something that bothered him do to his rigid principles. Davos could respond wryly to that and it would be a nice moment between the two men.

[Blutraven]

Khal-A-Bunga is right here. I remember a similar "D and D hate Jaime" narrative two years ago.

EDIT: In the Foreshadowing feature we saw a glimpse of a Davos and Stannis scene in Dragonstone. If this is their scene in ep. one, we could make a few things clear. If Stannis were to say, "When I was to kill you, I would have done it myself, he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." That would establish that he wasn't simply going to throw away his friends life but was doing something that bothered him do to his rigid principles. Davos could respond wryly to that and it would be a nice moment between the two men.

It would also make there be a connection between him and Ned.

[Mr Fixit]

Really like Stephen Dillane as Stannis. His appearance is differs from the canon, but I enjoy the differences. Love his voice and delivery of the lines too, sounds like a man who is quite strained with duty.

I love Dillane as Stannis. HIs patterns of speech, his eyes, a subdued restlessness that is present whenever something's bothering him (which is most of the time :) )... That guy is simply phenomenal.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Khal-A-Bunga is right here. I remember a similar "D and D hate Jaime" narrative two years ago.

EDIT: In the Foreshadowing feature we saw a glimpse of a Davos and Stannis scene in Dragonstone. If this is their scene in ep. one, we could make a few things clear. If Stannis were to say, "When I was to kill you, I would have done it myself, he who passes the sentence should swing the sword." That would establish that he wasn't simply going to throw away his friends life but was doing something that bothered him do to his rigid principles. Davos could respond wryly to that and it would be a nice moment between the two men.

Now i really want this to happen

[WTFSalami]

Remember too with those Inside the Episode clips where Weiss mentioned that, they are commenting on how the audience should be feeling at that time, not necessarily on how the audience should feel in the future, with all the knowledge of what happens later on in the story. They aren't there to give an overall commentary on characters with 5 books worth of context, it would give things away.

The clip he's talking about is the parlay with Renly where Renly tells Stannis that he wouldn't be a good king and they're just reinforcing how we're supposed to feel given what little we know of the character at that point.

I think some fans are just extremely hypersensitive to anything said about their favourite characters and take things way too personally if there isn't unadulterated love given by all involved.

I'll actually be really glad when the show catches up to the books so that fans will not be able to criticize a characterization prematurely because all they've got in their head is how they feel about that character with 5 books of context as opposed to the 2 or 3 the show is working with.

This should be required reading for this board.