[BOOK SPOILERS] Stannis in the show

[Rhaegar I Targaryen]

I love Dillane as Stannis. HIs patterns of speech, his eyes, a subdued restlessness that is present whenever something's bothering him (which is most of the time :) )... That guy is simply phenomenal.

"subdued restlessness" - love it. I'd maybe go as far as to call it a subdued relentlessness.

Any way you cut it, he kills it.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

I think Stannis is far too impressionable on the show, and too attached to the red religion.

Burning anyone that speaks against Melisandre isn't something book-Stannis would do. Book-Stannis wasn't punishing people for worshipping different religions, nor for speaking against Melisandre. Salla was doing it openly, the Bastard of Nightsong was renowned for his fervent Seven worship, and Stannis laughed at Melisandre when Davos made the 'two is not three' jab.

Then there's Gendry/Edric. Show-Stannis intended to sacrifice Gendry the moment he arrived. It fell to Davos to convince show-Stannis to even test Melisandre's claims. Then, after Robb, show-Stannis was convinced. Book-Stannis initially refused, until he tested Melisandre, which took all three kings (and until that happened he wasn't buying it), and then he decided on it. Which, mind you, was after being told other avenues wouldn't work, as he wanted to send pardons and thought they "must" send for him after Joffrey's death. Melisandre had to work to convince book-Stannis to break his code, show-Stannis didn't seem to have one.

The final scene seemed an odd change as well. I doubt anyone got the impression Stannis was deadset on executing Davos until Melisandre told him not to. That 'cart before the horse' line is soured, now.

Anyway, they were my major complaints, these are some minor ones:

- They cut almost all of his good monologues whilst giving screentime to Pod and his sexcapades.

- They cut the vision of his own burning to death, which I feel is quite significant. He feels that his crown is going to cost his own life, possibly by a literal burning, and is therefore ready to make the same sacrifice he's about to force on Edric.

- The two times show-Stannis reaches out and actually touches someone, it's to choke Melisandre to death, or to dry hump her in front of his soldiers. The two times book-Stannis reaches out and actually touches someone, it's to raise Davos up after promoting him, and put a hand on Jon's shoulder after offering him Winterfell. Not major, but these were nice touches lost in the show.

- Book-Stannis laughs at Davos' honesty, and the joke he made at Melisandre's expense. Show-Stannis laughs when Davos is forced to serve a god he doesn't worship. The latter's sense of humour is petty and cruel, the former's is not.

All that to say, no, I don't think they did a very good job with him, but if you've enjoyed it good luck to you. I'm hoping it's a bringing him to lower lows so his highs seem higher type deal, but I would much prefer more book accuracy.

Yes you are dead on here. A lot of my problems with show Stannis can be boiled down to his interactions with Davos. He just seems to have a much friendlier relationship with him in the books and that is something that makes Stannis more likeable. Because lets face it, most people really like Davos, including myself. I think you hit the nail on the head with his willingness to laugh at Davos' honesty in the books. He expresses his admiration for Davos' honesty even, but I just never get that sense in the show. The Season 3 Finale was pretty sickening to watch as a Stannis fan. "You were saved by that fire god you always mock." :stillsick: Here's hoping that he will change for the better, starting with his aid at the wall at the end of Season 4.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

Anyone else a little worried about these teasers and saying there won't be the typical episode 9 climax like in previous seasons? Obviously we have other big events that chronologically need to happen earlier in the season like the PW and Tyrion's Trial. BUT that doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't have a climax at the battle at the Wall with Stannis and Jon.

All these *hints* and *teasers* saying there won't be a season ending climax like normal tells me that they're going to downplay the Role Stannis plays, they are going to steal his thunder in a moment that is supposed to be his crowning achievement, his moment in the sun.

I feel that because it isn't Dany, or the Stark/Lannister conflict, it's being downplayed. Stannis has not drawn a strong loyal following of TV fans like he has managed to do in the books. I fear the producers are taking note of this, and painting the fan favorite (Dany) as some great hero and making Stannis look more villainous.

There's no reason why there shouldn't be a climactic episode 9 this season as there have been in all three seasons past. Stannis flanking Mance Rayder and saving the wall is timed perfectly to be that climax. But it seems that scene won't be receiving its due.

Yea I think you're misinterpreting not having a "typical" episode 9 climax. It's not typical because there are so many epic moments at the end of ASOS that there isn't focus on just one. S1E9 Ned's beheading is the climax to the season. S2E9 Blackwater is the climax to the season. S3E9 RW is the climax. Think about the end of ASOS. Theres like 5 different massive climaxes. Tyrion kills Shae/Twyin, LF kills Lysa, Lady Stoneheart reveal, Jon Snow LC, etc. That doesn't necessarily mean that they won't do the Stannis! Stannis! Stannis! scene justice, just that it isn't the only climax to the season.

[Ours if the Fury]

The tv version of stannis is a bit of a joke, D&D have brought his story out wrong and have made him look like a bad guy, and plus he isn't getting enough story… which is a problem as he is a central character to the story in the future…

[Koi No Yokan]

I don't know of any Unsullied that think Stannis is a bad guy. There are many that don't like him because he's an asshole; just as there were plenty of book readers feeling the exact same way at this moment in time during the books.

[Loerwyn]

I don't know of any Unsullied that think Stannis is a bad guy. There are many that don't like him because he's an asshole; just as there were plenty of book readers feeling the exact same way at this moment in time during the books.

I don't know if I'd call him an asshole. I'm rather openly 'Team Stannis' (at least for the books), because I think he has the best claim to the throne (Robert's brother), the best chance of actually doing some good on the throne (he has a lot of regal qualities without many of the foibles - he's harsh but fair) and so on.

It's hard to tell what Melisandre means, though. Could she have saved the Blackwater battle if she was there? There's no way to know, and we've not really seen her powers actually manifest themselves beyond the Renly-killing shadow baby. Anything that happens is coincidental, it seems. The people whose names she put into the fire were (or are) on their way to death anyway, so I don't think it's right to attribute any credit for their deaths to her or the Lord of Light. I'm also not sure if she is there for anything except to move around Westeros at the speed of light and to get her temples out every so often and have a bit of sexytimes. Did she need to have sex with Gendry, for example? Is it because she needed his... um... steel to be strengthened? But after everything that happened between the sexytimes and her putting the leech there, I think his steel would have climbed deep inside his body out of sheer terror.

As for Stannis himself? I think they're getting him more and more wrong. He was relatively fine in S2. He doesn't sit back and give commands, he knows it's important to be visible (but safe). He understands how people see him, and that's one reason he leaves Melisandre behind, because he realises taking her would undermine *his* victory. And Davos is a very important person for him. In the books - and the show - Davos is meant to represent the compassion Stannis does not have. He's meant to show Stannis the price the innocents pay, and is also Stannis' voice and ears in places Stannis could not be. But as the show progresses, we're seeing Stannis change, and I don't like it. He's becoming too rash, arguably too emotional. He's not a cold, distant ruler now. He's becoming fervoured, he's becoming deluded, and I honestly do not think this Stannis will be anywhere near as convincing as Book Stannis could be. That scene where he almost pushes Melisandre against the cliff face and gives her his flaming sword in front of his troops, to me, is such a gross character assassination. Book Stannis would NEVER behave like that, not even in private.

[ebevan91]

No idea where to post these but there are two new screencaps of Team Dragonstone:

Stannis and Davos on the ship http://31.media.tumblr.com/f2bbfdf63d390924e84b9a93d1d393e6/tumblr_n3p3pgxXGm1qjzqufo1_500.jpg

Melisandre taking a bath http://24.media.tumblr.com/2e0ffa8c75833091af96322d8cd9a877/tumblr_n3p3k7MjQa1rsjbaso1_500.jpg

I guess the video was taken down? I watched it at work last night then tried to watch it again this morning but it's gone :(

[ebevan91]

Was there any new footage in it? I only saw these two screenshots not the video.

Yeah there was quite a bit of new footage. The video was about 1:33 long. Basically it was called "The Weeks Ahead". Basically a preview for the month of April.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I don't think they have depicted Stannis quite right, but they are nowhere near as far away as many would have everyone believe.

He has a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other. Its the reason he released Davos from prison - to ensure he had that balance for the leech scene in the show. I have long felt that this was part of his reason for leaving Mel at the Wall - he didn't have Davos with him to provide the balance.

---

Many Stan fans took personal offense to the D+D comments about Stannis 'not being a good king' at the point Renly was still alive. Stannis being seen by the audience as a poor option is very important as a plot driver at that point in time. Vitally important. His redemption comes at the Wall. Those who took personal offense (rather than the more reasonable position of rational disagreement) have been blinded by their own indignation ever since. I actually laughed when I saw one Stan fan praise a Stannis appearance and lines in a trailer once... until they saw others were decrying the 'character assassination' in it. So they went back and edited their post to follow 'the Party Line'. From praise to 'D+D suck' in no time flat.

Yeah, Mel has been laid on a bit thick, but if they do the redemption right, it will pay off.

[DurararaFTW]

I don't think they have depicted Stannis quite right, but they are nowhere near as far away as many would have everyone believe.

He has a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other. Its the reason he released Davos from prison - to ensure he had that balance for the leech scene in the show. I have long felt that this was part of his reason for leaving Mel at the Wall - he didn't have Davos with him to provide the balance.

---

Many Stan fans took personal offense to the D+D comments about Stannis 'not being a good king' at the point Renly was still alive. Stannis being seen by the audience as a poor option is very important as a plot driver at that point in time. Vitally important. His redemption comes at the Wall. Those who took personal offense (rather than the more reasonable position of rational disagreement) have been blinded by their own indignation ever since. I actually laughed when I saw one Stan fan praise a Stannis appearance and lines in a trailer once... until they saw others were decrying the 'character assassination' in it. So they went back and edited their post to follow 'the Party Line'. From praise to 'D+D suck' in no time flat.

Yeah, Mel has been laid on a bit thick, but if they do the redemption right, it will pay off.

I agree that you were suppose to doubt Stannis very much at that time but he has no "redemption at the Wall", going to the Wall and the North is something for Stannis to do to show that he is different from the other kings. At the beginning of Book 2 he still would have taken it more seriously then Renly or Joffrey. He's the same guy.

[aFeastForDragons]

4 mentions of Stannis in the premier. Polliver, Brienne, Joffery and Jamie aswell as Cersei mentioning the battle. Its good to see they are actually remembering and talking about what happened in Season 2.

In season 3 there was barely a mention of the Battle of Blackwater and nobody mentioned Stannis except for Roose Bolton. The guy did just lead an enormous siege on the capital where thousands of men died. This kind of stuff just reinforced people's opinion on the show butchering his character. Its great to see the show back on track and more like the books where the Blackwater and Red Wedding come up a lot aswell as Stannis still being a big threat.

[SlowLoras]

I'm desperately hoping s4 will give Stannis some of the nuance he's been missing up until now - his treatment/regard towards Davos seems to me to be much harsher than the books (he trusts Davos implicitly, and although he's rather sharp with him he appreciates Davos's frankness, sometimes even agreeing with him over Melisandre - see the 3 leeches/3 kings matter)

I'm a huge fan of book!Stannis and one of my only gripes with the show is that I'm not utterly convinced Stannis's character is quite as well-rounded as he is in the books. But we'll see where it goes....

[johndance]

I watch and discuss the show with 3 people who haven't picked up the books once. None of them think Stannis is a 'bad guy'. They just think he is a really hard man who doesn't have much of a sense of humor. IMO they are doing a great job taking Stannis' character from book and accurately portraying him on the screen. He is pretty close to what I pictured reading him.

I don't get those of you who think he is portrayed like a 'bad guy'. How many times does he state that he doesn't ask for this, the only reason he is going to war is because the IR is his by right. Hell, the season one 'good guy' is the one who determined Stannis was the rightful heir and gave Stannis his vote of confidence.

[SlowLoras]

it's not so much that he's being portrayed as a 'bad guy' - I agree, it's more grey than that. But there are certain changes from the book which I don't quite comprehend, and these do seem to make his character lean more towards the 'dark side', so to speak - e.g in the book he's hesitant to sacrifice or harm Eldric, whereas in the show he's pretty much all for sticking leeches on Gendry's nethers and reaping the rewards.

He's not a bad guy, and I don't think he comes across that way on the show entirely, but I suspect non-readers might be more inclined to think of him as one of the antagonists (or future antagonists) - his moral choices are a lot less fuzzy on the show, at least thus far.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens when he gets to Castle Black.

[joachim]

I hadn't read the books until after season three. I didn't think much of Stannis until "Kissed by Fire," and that scene with Shireen. In particular, when she asks him if he won, he just shrugs and says, "Nope."

[Van West]

Big Changes from the book to the show:

Book! Stannis doesn't order kill Mel to kill Renly. Mel has a prophecy that Renly will die soon and Stannis just shows up so he can collect. Stannis isn't aware that he's the cause of Renly's death.

TV! Stannis is completely under Mel's control. Only sparing Davos because Mel said to.

TV! Stannis doesn't have Book! Stannis' humor at all just his uncharisma.

TV! Stannis needed convincing not to kill Gendry right away by Davos. And after one king he's all for it. Book! Stannis was highly skeptical the entire time, didn't want to do it even after one, two and at three....he still didn't give the go ahead although it was looking like he was about to and promised Mel that if it didn't work that she would die screaming.

Book! Stannis would never beg Mel for sex.

TV! Stannis goes north because of Mel whereas in the books he went north because of what Davos said. The horse and the cart speech.

[PhoenixFlame]

I'm on Team Stannis but even in the books I think during ACOK he wouldn't be a great king. At that point he was blinkered and bitter, even if not a "bad guy." This was basically the same point D&D said he'd be a bad king. But he changes throughout ASOS and AFFC/ADWD. He starts seeing the humanity behind justice and learns that being more flexible isn't the same as bending. So yeah, I like him tons because he develops. I like my heroes dynamic. The sample TWOW Theon chapter had me grinning like an idiot, even with my plethora of Theon Sad Feels.

The only scene that made me bitchy was his "Mhysa" scene, for reasons others have stated, but since he's having a bromantic roadtrip with Davos this season, maybe we'll see their closeness become more apparent. Like an old married couple remembering why they liked each other XD.

[jaimereborn]

the worst error in the whole dragonstone sections of the show is the music 'theme' that comes on every time we visit stannis. that doomladen miserable music paints him out to be such a villain, and it's very misleading

[franko99]

the worst error in the whole dragonstone sections of the show is the music 'theme' that comes on every time we visit stannis. that doomladen miserable music paints him out to be such a villain, and it's very misleading

I actually love "warrior of light", it is really dark and full of terrors :P

Big Changes from the book to the show:

TV! Stannis is completely under Mel's control. Only sparing Davos because Mel said to.

TV! Stannis doesn't have Book! Stannis' humor at all just his uncharisma.

TV! Stannis needed convincing not to kill Gendry right away by Davos. And after one king he's all for it. Book! Stannis was highly skeptical the entire time, didn't want to do it even after one, two and at three....he still didn't give the go ahead although it was looking like he was about to and promised Mel that if it didn't work that she would die screaming.

Book! Stannis would never beg Mel for sex.

TV! Stannis goes north because of Mel whereas in the books he went north because of what Davos said. The horse and the cart speech.

:agree: all of these, I won't say they made him a "bad guy" (like a Bolton or Tywin) but he's certainly less charismatic than his book counterpart (and yes, there where a lot of people who likes him even before the Wall, so don't say we are supossed to deslike him till that).

As for people comparing it to Jaime...well I still don't like Jaime killing his cousin in season 2, it was/is a terrible scene, kinslaying goes against Jaime character, it's better to just pretend it never happen

[jaimereborn]

I actually love "warrior of light", it is really dark and full of terrors :P

:agree: all of these, I won't say they made him a "bad guy" (like a Bolton or Tywin) but he's certainly less charismatic than his book counterpart (and yes, there where a lot of people who likes him even before the Wall, so don't say we are supossed to deslike him till that).

As for people comparing it to Jaime...well I still don't like Jaime killing his cousin in season 2, it was/is a terrible scene, kinslaying goes against Jaime character, it's better to just forget it ever happen

haha, perhaps.

i think it's been trumped in the bad music stakes by oberyn's new theme tune, the 'slightly menacing spanish guitar' song