The Latest News
Connect with Us

Notable Releases
From the Store
Game of Thrones Pop! Television Jon Snow Figurine T-Shirt
Jon Snow POP T-Shirt
HBO US
Featured Sites
License Holders

Jump to content


Photo

Do you view Daenerys as a dishonorable character?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
457 replies to this topic

#1 Guard of the Rainking

Guard of the Rainking

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 944 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 03:55 PM

So far Daenerys has (in my opinion) done some pretty dishonorable things during the series. She let's her husband pillage lands so, that they would get wealth for ships. She later steals an unsullied army, attacks Yunkai and Meereen and takes control of the latter without any rights.

So do you view her acts as dishonorable ones or is there something, that justifies them?



#2 Apple Martini

Apple Martini

    The Snarker on the Wall

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 20,207 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 03:59 PM

I don't find her to be inherently dishonorable so much as inconsistent. She argues for the letter of the law when doing so benefits her, and does dishonorable things when doing so helps her.

You could argue that might makes right and superior firepower gives her her rights. The flip side though is that Robert's superior firepower gave HIM the right to rule Westeros and depose her father.

Edited by Apple Martini, 08 February 2014 - 06:33 PM.


#3 Mad Monkey

Mad Monkey

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,695 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:00 PM

I think dishonorable actions can be justified, but they are still dishonorable. We do see some of the repercussions of this behavior later on in the series. People throughout Essos refuse to accept envoys from her when she becomes queen of Meereen, likely in part due to the fact that she has broken agreements in the past. Trust is key in this setting and when you have someone like this who shatters agreements and breaks social norms with abandon it makes it hard to trust them even if they had good reasons for doing so.

 

Dany has essentially put herself in the position of being like the Freys of the Crossing, and while some of the things that are said about her are lies the things that are true are enough to make it hard for her to make deals and network with people beyond those who know her personally and have received benefits from her actions.

 

EDIT: Obviously, there is no logical reason to pin Dany for the crimes of Khal Drogo. Does anyone think that Dany actually changed Khal Drogo's overall leadership style? He pillaged and raided before he met her and would have kept on doing it even if they had never met. I would rather hold Dany accountable for her own decisions, not for the decisions of her captor husband. 


Edited by Mad Monkey, 08 February 2014 - 04:03 PM.


#4 Winter's Knight

Winter's Knight

    Captain of the flagship Briennsa

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,209 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:00 PM

. She let's her husband pillage lands so, that they would get wealth for ships. S

 

You lose credibility from this point on.

 

Fuck honour. Throughout history,"honour" has been used as an excuse to justify all sorts of shit, from misogyny to sanctioned murder  via duels.

 

Is Dany "dishonourable"? Probably. Doesn't take away from her being a hero.



#5 SpringKing

SpringKing

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 403 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:04 PM

Yes, but which major character isnt dishonorable to some degree?



#6 Guard of the Rainking

Guard of the Rainking

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 944 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:07 PM

 

You lose credibility from this point on.

 

Fuck honour. Throughout history,"honour" has been used as an excuse to justify all sorts of shit, from misogyny to sanctioned murder  via duels.

 

Is Dany "dishonourable"? Probably. Doesn't take away from her being a hero.

How do I exactly lose credibility for pointing out what happened?



#7 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:08 PM

Yes, but which major character isnt dishonorable to some degree?


Ned ? Stannis ?

#8 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:09 PM

Dany only did one wrong action, buying the Unsullied and then killing the traders. Everything else is fine.

#9 Guard of the Rainking

Guard of the Rainking

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 944 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:10 PM

Dany only did one wrong action, buying the Unsullied and then killing the traders. Everything else is fine.

How is the pillaging fine?



#10 Kurogane

Kurogane

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 49 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:11 PM

Apart from betraying the Good Masters of Astapor, she hasn't done anything I consider inherently dishonorable.  



#11 Kurogane

Kurogane

    Freerider

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 49 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:12 PM

Actually, having that shopkeeper's daughter tortured (raped?) was pretty messed up.



#12 Gneisenau

Gneisenau

    Got lost trying to find Greywater Watch

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:14 PM

How is the pillaging fine?


Because she wasn't in command of the Khalasar.

#13 David Selig

David Selig

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,982 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:15 PM

Wait? She let her husband pillage? Since when did he need her permission for that?

 

Besides, what the hell does it has to do with honour anyway?
 



#14 SpringKing

SpringKing

    Landed Knight

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 403 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:20 PM

Ned ? Stannis ?

 

If R+L=J then Ned has lied about Jon being his bastard.

Stannis permits Mel to use human sacrifice to further his purpose. 



#15 Dany Girl

Dany Girl

    Baddest Queen in Town

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,743 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:21 PM

How do I exactly lose credibility for pointing out what happened?


Because Dany doesn't allow shit. The Dothraki are a race of pillagers, rapist, and murders. Drogo has hundred of bells in his hair, meaning he's won hundreds of battles. He raped, pillaged and sold slaves long before Dany. All Dany supplied was a direction for what to do with the money they got. Blaming Dany for Drogo's actions is about as straw man as you can get.

Is she dishonorable? Maybe, but who isn't? It's just the world they live in and the definition of Honor they use. Cheating the Slave Masters, dishonorable? Maybe, but don't expect me to cry over men who cost millions of lives. Someone once broke down the "cost" of each unsullied, for 1 unsullied soldier something like 10 people die. I'm not shedding tears over ending that practice.

The 2 worst things Dany has done IMO are allowing the wine sellers daughters to be tortured and leaving Astapor with no real government. One was done out of desperation, one out of naiveté.

#16 Dany Girl

Dany Girl

    Baddest Queen in Town

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,743 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:23 PM

Ned ? Stannis ?

Ned either created a bastard while married or lied about doing just that for 14 years.

Stannis allows Mel to do some pretty heinous things, including burning people and their sacred totems.

Note: this doesn't make them bad people, just human, everyone messes up and "honor" is such a tricky thing.

Edited by Dany Girl, 08 February 2014 - 04:25 PM.


#17 SeanF

SeanF

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,205 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:24 PM

You lose credibility from this point on.
 
Fuck honour. Throughout history,"honour" has been used as an excuse to justify all sorts of shit, from misogyny to sanctioned murder  via duels.
 
Is Dany "dishonourable"? Probably. Doesn't take away from her being a hero.


An antihero, IMHO.

#18 Lord Thornhart

Lord Thornhart

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 832 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:28 PM

Honor?

 

BLOODANDFIRE BLOODANDFIRE THEDRAGONANSWERSTONOONE BLOODANDFIRE BLOODANDFIRE

 

There's your honor. Targaryen honor.



#19 SeanF

SeanF

    Council Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,205 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:29 PM

Ned either created a bastard while married or lied about doing just that for 14 years.
Stannis allows Mel to do some pretty heinous things, including burning people and their sacred totems.
Note: this doesn't make them bad people, just human, everyone messes up and "honor" is such a tricky thing.


"Honour" can lead to Ned resigning his office, rather than sanction the murder of a pregnant 14 year old; or to Ser Barristan standing aside as Aerys rips out a woman's private parts and burns her alive.

#20 Dany Girl

Dany Girl

    Baddest Queen in Town

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,743 posts

Posted 08 February 2014 - 04:36 PM

"Honour" can lead to Ned resigning his office, rather than sanction the murder of a pregnant 14 year old; or to Ser Barristan standing aside as Aerys rips out a woman's private parts and burns her alive.


Exactly. Things done in the name of honor are rarely honorable. To be truly honorable might just make you the biggest monster of all.