Do you view Daenerys as a dishonorable character?

[RoamingRonin]

I don't see her as being dishonorable Burning the envoy's tokar was a dishonorable act and I have always been a little bothered at how she dismantled Groleo's ships but I don't think this makes her a dishonorable character.

Is there an alternative though? Would it be better if she'd left everything as it was?

I would have preferred if she just sacked Astapor and kept it moving.

If she wasn't going to rule from there or install people loyal to her - for instance: Jorah as Lord of Astapor (or something) - then she shouldn't have tried to form a new government. She allowed all those loyal to her to follow her so there was nothing left for her in the city.

[Dany Girl]

What Dany did at Astapor at Astapor was break a pact. That's objectively dishonorable. The respective morality of Dany and the Good Masters is a different issue.

Eh, she actually does pay up. The GMs asked for a dragon, she gave them Drogo. She handed him the leash and everything. It's not her fault they didn't know what they were getting into and that you can't just be given a dragon.

Dragons aren't Unsullied, they don't just listen to whomever hold their whip. They're like dogs. You can ask me for my dog, I can even give you his leash, but if I walk 10 feet away and call him, he's going to come. He doesn't give an darn you're holding his leash, he knows who his "mother" is, and will always come when called.

Dany gave them physical "ownership" of the dragon, but she has no way to relinquish their allegiance to her. After the deal was done, meaning the exchange of Unsullied for Dragon had been called complete, it's not her fault they dont understand she still controls the dragon and can use it against them as she declares war on them :D

[Gneisenau]

Eh, she actually does pay up. The GMs asked for a dragon, she gave them Drogo. She handed him the leash and everything. It's not her fault they didn't know what they were getting into and that you can't just be given a dragon.

Dragons aren't Unsullied, they don't just listen to whomever hold their whip. They're like dogs. You can ask me for my dog, I can even give you his leash, but if I walk 10 feet away and call him, he's going to come. He doesn't give an darn you're holding his leash, he knows who his "mother" is, and will always come when called.

Dany gave them physical "ownership" of the dragon, but she has no way to relinquish their allegiance to her. After the deal was done, meaning the exchange of Unsullied for Dragon had been called complete, it's not her fault they dont understand she still controls the dragon and can use it against them as she declares war on them :D

I suppose the Europeans were totally in the right for giving viral infected blankets to natives as well ? :dunce:

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

What Dany did at Astapor at Astapor was break a pact. That's objectively dishonorable. The respective morality of Dany and the Good Masters is a different issue.

BTW, is anybody else annoyed that the Ghiscari are so degenerate? I don't like them at all, but I feel like GRRM should have made them have at least some attractive features as a culture. Everything about them is vile, which makes them less interesting.

I actually argue that he did this on purpose to obscure just how awful a lot of what Dany does is. I like to argue that context matters, and next to the Ghiscari, Dany doesn't look so bad. But drop her in Westeros, where we care about the people and they're fleshed out, and you might not be able to root for her as easily. He does the same context thing with Tyrion, too. Get him away from the comparatively worse Cersei and Joffrey and he looks much worse.

[Dany Girl]

I suppose the Europeans were totally in the right for giving viral infected blankets to natives as well ? :dunce:

Right- no

Effective- yes

*speaking of just Dany here. This is fiction, not real life.

[Nictarion]

And to shock us readers, when she deals with the Westerosi as with the Ghiscari.

As long as the Westerosi dont start nailing kids to crosses, or killing babies by the thousands, I don't think they'll receive the same treatment. War is another thing, if they stand in her way of retaking the IT.

[Dany Girl]

As long as the Westerosi dont start nailing kids to crosses, or killing babies by the thousands, I don't think they'll receive the same treatment. War is another thing, if they stand in her way of retaking the IT.

Exactly. Most of the truly horrible things Dany has done were in retaliation of events she finds morally repugnant.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Exactly. Most of the truly horrible things Dany has done were in retaliation of events she finds morally repugnant.

So if she starts nailing up random Lannisters to posts in retaliation for Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys, you'll be OK with that because Dany finds those murders morally repugnant and will want someone to pay for them?

And "I only do awful things because the other guy did too" stopped working as an excuse for disgusting behavior in grade school.

[Kurogane]

Eh, she actually does pay up. The GMs asked for a dragon, she gave them Drogo. She handed him the leash and everything. It's not her fault they didn't know what they were getting into and that you can't just be given a dragon.

Dragons aren't Unsullied, they don't just listen to whomever hold their whip. They're like dogs. You can ask me for my dog, I can even give you his leash, but if I walk 10 feet away and call him, he's going to come. He doesn't give an darn you're holding his leash, he knows who his "mother" is, and will always come when called.

Dany gave them physical "ownership" of the dragon, but she has no way to relinquish their allegiance to her. After the deal was done, meaning the exchange of Unsullied for Dragon had been called complete, it's not her fault they dont understand she still controls the dragon and can use it against them as she declares war on them :D

Dany could have easily marched away with her Unsullied,; I think Drogon would get over it eventually. But that's not the point. The point is that Dany did violated the explicit and implicit terms of a solemn pact. Which is dishonorable. This doesn't mean that Dany is dishonorable by nature, or that the Good Masters were in any way honorable people.

The act was dishonorable. But smart, since a dragon is worth more than 8000 fanatics with outdated training.

[Dany Girl]

So if she starts nailing up random Lannisters to posts in retaliation for Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys, you'll be OK with that because Dany finds those murders morally repugnant and will want someone to pay for them?

Basically, but for the same reason I don't care that LS is killing every Frey or Lannister she gets her hands on.

I also don't see that happening, more likely she'll have them stabbed to death and heads smashed against walls. She's all about eye for an eye after all. :)

[Dany Girl]

Dany could have easily marched away with her Unsullied,; I think Drogon would get over it eventually. But that's not the point. The point is that Dany did violated the explicit and implicit terms of a solemn pact. Which is dishonorable. This doesn't mean that Dany is dishonorable by nature, or that the Good Masters were in any way honorable people.

The act was dishonorable. But smart, since a dragon is worth more than 8000 fanatics with outdated training.

She could have, she also could have started leaving and simply called Drogo to her side. She didn't, why? Because she was declaring war on Astapor. She'd already decided she was going to go war with them, so she used the advantages she had.

Of course it's not honorable, when is war honorable?

[Winter's Knight]

Ehh, would I object to her executing Jaime for killing her father? Not really.

And where exactly do you get the dea that she'd target Joy or Janei? Her track record on killing kids isn't exactly great.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Ehh, would I object to her executing Jaime for killing her father? Not really.

And where exactly do you get the dea that she'd target Joy or Janei? Her track record on killing kids isn't exactly great.

I'm guessing that in her Neanderthal way of thinking, she would think it appropriate to execute any three random Lannisters, regardless of their actual guilt in the deaths of her family. Maybe naming the kids as examples is too much, fine. But I'm troubled that "meh all Lannisters suck, she can do what she wants" is getting trotted out. Then again I think saying every single Frey should be killed is also pathetically simplistic, so maybe it's me.

Westeros is in need of some actual justice, definitely. That Dany is the one to effectively administer it is a joke.

[OldGimletEye]

Ehh, would I object to her executing Jaime for killing her father? Not really.

Her father was a pig and deserved to die. Jaime did humanity a big favor. Then, again, nobody ever accused Dany of being an objective or deep thinker.

[Dany Girl]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people who get hard-ons for Old Testament meathead "justice" love her so much. I like to think I'm evolved a little more; perhaps that's part of why I loathe her.

But good to know you'd be OK with Dany bashing Janei Lannister or Joy Hill against the wall, you must be very proud of yourself.

Of course I'm not ok with that, it's called sarcasm.

I do have problems with SB, as I've already mentioned. Astapor was a blood bath, that was not necessary. She should have stopped with the Plaza slavers, but she didn't. Is it enough to make me hate her though? No. Why? Because Unsullied are a travesty. They're Astapor's main export as well, meaning that most slavers in the city had something to do with their making, even if it's just supplying the boys. So no, I don't care they're dead. I do care that Dany made a huge mistake leaving the people in charge she left. The city is in ruins, so many have died. But this was not some decision she made out of spite, but out of naiveté. She didn't know what she was doing, but was trying to do the right thing. She failed.

With Meereen, I have yet to see any evidence that anyone who was crucified was not guilty. Even if they weren't, she doesn't ask for the guilty, but the leaders. Crucifixition was wrong, I've stated that before, even Dany knows it wasa, hence her need reassure herself she's doing the right thing. She's self justifying what she knows is wrong. I doubt she'll ever crucify another person. But I also do not care one bit these men died. They were terrible people, responsible for untold numbers of deaths.

I don't see Dany starting some revenge quest once she reaches Westeros, that's not typically her MO. I do see her having a clear, "you're with me or against me" mentality, but that's war for you. I don't see her ever killing innocent girls, since outside 1 incident (wine sellers daughters) she's never done harm to an innocent person, at least not on purpose. Now if Joy takes up arms against Dany, I have no issues with Dany killing her.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Of course it's not honorable, when is war honorable?

Never. But there is something called the Geneva Convention, which keeps it somewhat human-ish. Well, at least it keeps it from becoming even more inhuman. A predecessor was the Haager Landkriegsordnung. And even earlier, there were standards as well.

Just as there are standards in Westeros and Essos. And Dany is taking a giant dump on them. It will bite her in the ass. It has bitten her in the ass already.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Of course I'm not ok with that, it's called sarcasm.

I do have problems with SB, as I've already mentioned. Astapor was a blood bath, that was not necessary. She should have stopped with the Plaza slavers, but she didn't. Is it enough to make me hate her though? No. Why? Because Unsullied are a travesty. They're Astapor's main export as well, meaning that most slavers in the city had something to do with their making, even if it's just supplying the boys. So no, I don't care they're dead. I do care that Dany made a huge mistake leaving the people in charge she left. The city is in ruins, so many have died. But this was not some decision she made out of spite, but out of naiveté. She didn't know what she was doing, but was trying to do the right thing. She failed.

With Meereen, I have yet to see any evidence that anyone who was crucified was not guilty. Even if they weren't, she doesn't ask for the guilty, but the leaders. Crucifixition was wrong, I've stated that before, even Dany knows it wasa, hence her need reassure herself she's doing the right thing. She's self justifying what she knows is wrong. I doubt she'll ever crucify another person. But I also do not care one bit these men died. They were terrible people, responsible for untold numbers of deaths.

I don't see Dany starting some revenge quest once she reaches Westeros, that's not typically her MO. I do see her having a clear, "you're with me or against me" mentality, but that's war for you. I don't see her ever killing innocent girls, since outside 1 incident (wine sellers daughters) she's never done harm to an innocent person, at least not on purpose. Now if Joy takes up arms against Dany, I have no issues with Dany killing her.

Joy is like 8 years old. So no, probably not taking up arms against Dany.

I'll generally root for whoever tells Dany to go fuck herself and puts an arrow through Drogon's eye. Westeros needs her and her "justice" the way a gunshot victim needs a mousetrap. How ANYONE could look at the absolute train wreck of Slaver's Bay and think, "This person should rule Westeros" baffles me. She is the nearly dead last person who should be anywhere near any position of authority, after maybe Cersei.

[Nictarion]

I'll generally root for whoever tells Dany to go fuck herself and puts an arrow through Drogon's eye.

Even if Dany is fighting the Others? Is your hatred for her so strong you'd actually root for mankind's possible annihilation, if it means not rooting for Dany?

[Light a wight tonight]

Honor? Honor is a horse.

[Winter's Knight]

Even if Dany is fighting the Others? Is your hatred for her so strong you'd actually root for mankind's possible annihilation, if it means not rooting for Dany?

I don't think even Apple would prefer world annhilation over Dany.