Spearofoberyn Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Anyone have any good theories for who the Elder Brother is and or the High Septon. Just as I was reading I was thinking the High Septon could be Howland Reed. Any thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Anyone have any good theories for who the Elder Brother is and or the High Septon. Just as I was reading I was thinking the High Septon could be Howland Reed. Any thought? Why and how would the HS be Howland Reed? Except for their short height, they have absolutely nothing in common. I don't know any good theories about the identity of the Elder Brother. The only theory I've seen about his identity is that he's Rhaegar, which is absolutely ridiculous. It's quite possible that his name isn't one that we're supposed to know, and I don't see any reason to think he's lying about his backstory and that he's not exactly who he says he is - i.e. a third son of a landed knight who fought at the Trident, nobody that important. There is, however, an interesting theory that he's currently at the Eyrie, looking for Sansa, under the identity of the hedge knight Morgarth the Merry, one of the three hedge knights LF employed in AFFC. The physical description of Ser Morgarth is quite similar to that of the EB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I can't see why Elder Brother would take on the task of looking for Sansa. Surely his duty is at the Quiet Isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Elder Brother is Elder Brother. A godly man. No need to inspect further. However, I think there is something sinister about the High Sparrow. I have a crackpot theory that High Sparrow is Varys under a glamor. You can find it here. Also in this thread, I found a possible clue of High Sparrow blurting an expression frequently used by the people in the Free Cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMartell Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Varys hates magic, would he use a glamour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Carson Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 How do we know Varys hates magic?!?! Because he told us he hates magic? He's a master liar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Ugh, I hate glamour theories. It would mean anyone could be anyone. Melisandre uses glamour and we know that it's very difficult to sustain a glamour even with her ruby, it's not like anyone can use it. Varys is not a wizard, he's a master spy and the equivalent of today's secret police with a big spy network. If Varys were a super-wizard who can glamour himself as anyone, why even bother with manipulating kings or killing Kevan or trying to get Aegon on the throne, why not just glamour himself as a king or a regent or the Hand of the King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Ugh, I hate glamour theories. It would mean anyone could be anyone. Melisandre uses glamour and we know that it's very difficult to sustain a glamour even with her ruby, it's not like anyone can use it. Varys is not a wizard, he's a master spy and the equivalent of today's secret police with a big spy network. If Varys were a super-wizard who can glamour himself as anyone, why even bother with manipulating kings or killing Kevan or trying to get Aegon on the throne, why not just glamour himself as a king or a regent or the Hand of the King? To do what? What could he have done if he glamored himself as a king or a Hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 To do what? What could he have done if he glamored himself as a king or a Hand? Whatever he wanted? This has to be the most bizarre question I've seen on this forum. What can the most powerful men in the realm do? Geez, I can't think of anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Whatever he wanted? This has to be the most bizarre question I've seen on this forum. What can the most powerful men in the realm do? Geez, I can't think of anything... He wants to install fAegon to the IT as far as we know. Do you think he can just kill Robert and glamor himself as him and give the IT to fAegon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annara Snow Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 He wants to install fAegon to the IT as far as we know. Do you think he can just kill Robert and glamor himself as him and give the IT to fAegon? If he could glamour himself, he wouldn't have to install fAegon on the throne in the first place. You don't really think he is doing it all out of his great faith in fAegon's ability to rule? I don't think he's dumb. Point is, the entire idea is ridiculous, not to mention it cheapens Varys as a character. He is successful because he's intelligent, determined, has great manipulation and planning skills and a huge network of spies, not because he's Melisandre 2.0. (or would that make Melisandre a Varys 2.0. with an appearance upgrade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Carson Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think Vary's may use glamours as part of his disguises, but I doubt he is actually glamouring himself as anyone important unless only temporary to steal their mail or sneak in somewhere very secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Don't remember where I saw this posted, but someone mentioned that the HS may be one of the begging brother's Brienne meets on her travels. Iirc, it was the one before she sees the little Dwarf septon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Varys hates magic, would he use a glamour?Varys lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think you just broke someone's heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I can't see why Elder Brother would take on the task of looking for Sansa. Surely his duty is at the Quiet Isle. I totally agree! There is no logic in the EB, who has taken a no killing vow, to impersonate a sellsword ie; a paid killer. Plus, how would he know where to look for Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLE Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The Elder Brother is just what he says he is - a retired warrior, possibly himself once a "broken" man of the kind described by Septon Meribald, who found religion in a peaceful way and it's helped him to restore his life and his faith.The High Septon is a totally different kind of religious person, more the kind of fanatic - I see him as akin to Peter the Hermit, leader of the disaster that was the Peasants' Crusade.Neither of them needs to have been anybody else important before their religious lives, indeed I believe it serves the story better if they are NOT. However their ideas on religion are so far apart that there is no way they will cooperate. Sandor, if alive, is following the Elder Brother's path to inner peace: if he fights ever again it will still be for a cause that he deems genuinely worthy, and probably as a defender of someone else innocent (or a defender of humanity: I can imagine him on the Wall.)The High Septon is no longer a defender: he's become a prosecutor (of Cersei, and possibly others.) His version of the Faith is not one for which Sandor would fight. If Cersei has "Robert Strong" (=Gregor) to defend her, Sandor will not be the champion of the Faith (besides, the High Septon believes him either to be dead, or the murderous sacker of Saltpans who now rides with the Brotherhood Without Banners - unaware that the sacker of Saltpans and the Brotherhood's new recruit were two different people, and neither of them is Sandor anyway.) The High Sparrow's most likely champion is Lancel.If Sandor ends up fighting RobertGregor, it will be for a different cause, and Sandor will be the defender of someone else's life or innocence. Not as a "champion of The Faith", because the version of the Faith that he has encountered is not a version that has champions, or that condemns others.Nevertheless, both the Elder Brother and High Septon are exactly what they purport to be: people whose prior names were not important since they were nobodies of no importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The Elder Brother is just what he says he is - a retired warrior, possibly himself once a "broken" man of the kind described by Septon Meribald, who found religion in a peaceful way and it's helped him to restore his life and his faith.The High Septon is a totally different kind of religious person, more the kind of fanatic - I see him as akin to Peter the Hermit, leader of the disaster that was the Peasants' Crusade.Neither of them needs to have been anybody else important before their religious lives, indeed I believe it serves the story better if they are NOT. However their ideas on religion are so far apart that there is no way they will cooperate. Sandor, if alive, is following the Elder Brother's path to inner peace: if he fights ever again it will still be for a cause that he deems genuinely worthy, and probably as a defender of someone else innocent (or a defender of humanity: I can imagine him on the Wall.) The EB and HS have draw a lot of speculation because they do have some mystery about them. But in each case, I think that they are as basically presented w/o hidden agendas. The HS does come off as a dangerous fanatic while the EB is a healer who helps all, especially the "broken men" which the Wot5K is making plenty of. If Sandor is the gravedigger (and I hope he is!) then he is in the right place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlan of Pennytree Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I think Vary's may use glamours as part of his disguises, but I doubt he is actually glamouring himself as anyone important unless only temporary to steal their mail or sneak in somewhere very secure. Varys is a mummer, and uses mummers artifices to change his appearence. I think his admission to Tyrion was genuine, as they were speaking of Stannis and how Cortnay Penrose died when the subject of 'the old powers', or magic came up. Plus, in Kevan Lannisters last chapter in Dance, Varys is likely offering up a cryptic warning (or olive branch) to his High Holiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 EB is there to tell his story, to mirror what happened to Sandor and to show us he is still alive. Also, he may be a connection to the BWB orphanage thingie. I think he knows more about Sansa and Arya than we know right now. He didn't want Brienne to start in with Sandor, or to give out his identity, because he knows people are after him. So he uses omission, and uses the Hound persona to say it died, but never says Sandor Clegan specifically is done. I also respect that Stranger, difficult as he is, wasn't turned into glue or dog food yet. He still has not been gelded. Thank the gods! Meaning, I totally appreciate his patience with Stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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