ghosts in winterfell Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 There's no arguing that Cersei isn't an awful person, but I don't think she's totally indefensible -- there are reasons for the way she turned out. She is as much a victim as she is a villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Otter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei 1.0 as a man = Joff 1.5, not much of an upgrade. Patch notes:Keep away from kittens.Improved Crossbow loading time.Although not able to use audio input, oral input still remains effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBarristantheOld Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Also it's worth noting that Balon Greyjoy, (who actually WAS guilty of treason,) was allowed to keep his Lordship and estate-he had to surrender Theon as a hostage, but Theon was treated more like a foster ward than a prisoner all those years. Ned who was innocent, was treated far more harshly from the get-go. Uh no. He was going to have Cersei and her children arrested. And have Stannis king. If that happened, she would die and so would her children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBarristantheOld Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 There's no arguing that Cersei isn't an awful person, but I don't think she's totally indefensible -- there are reasons for the way she turned out. She is as much a victim as she is a villain. She isn't even an awful person. Blame that on Robert and Tywin. And she's more victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 This is the same man who wanted her gone because of patriarchal beliefs. I would say she was more than fair. Its a kindness. Most people would execute Ned in that situation. It's not his belief in patriarchy that counts here, it's his belief in bloodline succession, which is the core principle on which Westerosi society is built. By passing off her brother's bastards as Robert's trueborn children, Cersei is attempting to steal the throne from its rightful owners. That is treason of the highest order and the penalty for treason is death. Ned didn't make the rules, he's just following them. He is a man of principle and she is a criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei wished Robert had made another island with ironborns skulls, but it would probably hard.And in a feudal society, forgiveness, ransoms and hostages was a common practice.Balon was probably never in dire straits, his castle never burnt to the ground.Ned was at the lannisters mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei wished Robert had made another island with ironborns skulls, but it would probably hard. And in a feudal society, forgiveness, ransoms and hostages was a common practice. Balon was probably never in dire straits, his castle never burnt to the ground. Ned was at the lannisters mercy. Robert could've killed Balon if he chose (Pyke's walls were breached, he could've easily gone further and torn the whole thing down) but he chose not to. It's important to note that trying to break your territory away from the IT isn't as severe a form of treason as trying to steal the IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnief Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yeah, basically Ned was just trying to uphold Westerosi law; it's also worth noting that he gave Cersei a chance to escape Westeros with her children, and start afresh Essos-where they all could have lived long and happy lives. And Cersei thanked him, for his mercy, by arresting him on false charges of treason. But to be fair, to Cersei, she taught us all a good lesson, on why you should never give your enemies forewarning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 +1 for Cersei !!!What next ?She's like -1000 and +1 and its a "defend Cersei" post.Wildfire !!! she got the idea first no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStarkInWinterhell Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Cersei was willing to give old Ned a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 She isn't even an awful person. Blame that on Robert and Tywin. And she's more victim. No dice. Robert has little to do with how Cercei is, we know she already was a manipulative, self-obssessed, sociopathic excuse for a human being even before the marriage. Cripes, she slept with Jaime the very morning of her wedding, and then she has the friggin gall to hate Robert because he says Lyanna's name. She hates him for being a whore-monger while she was banging her brother since a young age and herself has no seconds thoughts with getting loves once old Bob bits it. She hates that he abused her, but she is far, far worse than him to people who displease her and starts hitting Jaime as soon as he doesn't dance to her tune anymore. Cercei is a bastion of hypocrisy when it comes to Robert. As for Tywin, yes he wasn't an amazing father by any stretch of the imagination, but Cercei is above and beyond her siblings in terms of being screwed up. Tywin also never treated Cercei like he treated Tyrion, so that's a weak excuse. She didn't need her dad to be screwed up, hell we see that, in trying to emulate him, she is even more pointlessly cruel than her dad, without any of the pragmatism and good rulership to balance it out. As for being a victim, well she was a woman in a very sexist society, but apart from that, nope. As far as women go, she was the single most privileged in Westeros, daughter of a powerful Great Lord and married to a King. She also abuses power as much as she can as soon as she gets it, and is extremely derisive towards her own gender to boot. Sorry, but with the amount of victims she creates herself, Cercei doesn't get to be defended by that card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Wow. :agree:And she considers most if not all women as cheating whore but she had sex with her bro since at least they were 15 and probably far earlier.Ok she cannot be defended.Well, 95% people thinks that way at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Jasta11 wins. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerBarristantheOld Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 We do not KNOW that Cersei was what she was before her marriage from Robert. All we have are little tidbits and even those aren't really confirmed. I'm sorry, but Cersei was a victim. A victim that on the surface, was taken care of, but utterly abused when really seen into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Girl Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 We do not KNOW that Cersei was what she was before her marriage from Robert. All we have are little tidbits and even those aren't really confirmed. I'm sorry, but Cersei was a victim. A victim that on the surface, was taken care of, but utterly abused when really seen into.Cersei abused Robert back pretty much as much as he abused her. I adore Cersei, but she a terrible person and there's plenty of proof she's always been a bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 We do not KNOW that Cersei was what she was before her marriage from Robert. All we have are little tidbits and even those aren't really confirmed. I'm sorry, but Cersei was a victim. A victim that on the surface, was taken care of, but utterly abused when really seen into. We know for a fact that she abused Tyrion, she admits it herself. It's heavily indicated that she murdered Melara Hetherspoon. She killed someone who was supposedly her friend when she was ten years old. Think about that. She seems to have been mistreating servants her entire life. That is plenty sufficient evidence to conclude that she's basically Joffrey with teats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasporio Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yep if she had been nice with maggy, the latter would have not deliver such a crappy prediction.Mag said "go away" Cersei " my father will rip your tongue off". So by 9 or 10 she was a sociopath piece of c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 She isn't even an awful person. Blame that on Robert and Tywin. And she's more victim. Cersei is one of my favorite characters but she's no saint and while I agree that her relationships with both her father and her husband have helped shape her (more so her Tywin), there's a point where one needs to stop blaming everyone else & take some personal responsibility. Before AFFC, when we got to see inside of her head, I had thought that one of her redeeming qualities was her love for her family, the lengths she went to protect her children, etc. However, I'm don't think that this is actually the case because I'm not so sure she actually knows what love is. She seems to love someone so long as they are useful to her, she's definitely her father's daughter in this aspect. Jaime is supposed to be the love of her life, and yet when she can't seem to control him and thus realizes she has no other use for him she all but sends him from King's Landing. She even loses sight of what is in the best interest of her son, because she's waited this long and it's her turn to rule. She's incapable of getting along with anyone who doesn't kiss her ass and stroke her ego, and she can't even take a step back to reevaluate herself because she's so convinced of her own superiority. She had the Blue Bard tortured until he went along the bullshit she cooked up about Margaery in her paranoia -- she tried to frame someone for treason. These qualities are the marks of an awful person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Uh no. He was going to have Cersei and her children arrested. And have Stannis king. If that happened, she would die and so would her children. Ned gave her a chance to flee I believe. She refused, killed her husband, made her insane son king and got to stay in the city such a lovely lady right, ha ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 She isn't even an awful person. Blame that on Robert and Tywin. And she's more victim. she fucked her brother and raised Joffrey to be such a lovely king. You're totally right about her, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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