Daemon Blackfyre Opinions

[The Marquis de Leech]

Very Renlyish. Shallow, charming, and thinks he's entitled to the throne because he's more popular than the actual heir.

[HMR]

I'm a big fan, a lot could be different if he became king. Plus he is described as an awesome warrior and gallant too.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Awesome warriors don't necessarily make good kings (*cough* Robert Baratheon *cough*).

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I was wondering what people's opinions of Daemon Backfyre were. It is easy to see him as a bad guy. Afterall, he lead a rebellion against the crown and his own brothers. However, after reading that he had his men tend to Gwayne Corbray's wounds after defeating him in a duel, I wondered if he was a more chivalrous man than I had originally thought. I know there isn't a ton of information on him, but what opinions do you guys have on Daemon Blackfyre as a PERSON? (I understand he was an extraordinary warrior)

That's something Robert Baratheon would do. Actually, that's what he did for Selmy after the Trident. Still, not much of a person.

[HODOR! HODOR!!]

I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that he was someone who just expected everything to be given to him without working for it. Perhaps the reason he didn't hold any high office was because Daeron didn't want him to gain too much influence and power. Of all the great bastards, Daemon was the only threat to Daeron's rule, so Bloodraven's ascension in rank and title posed no threat to Daeron.

Furthermore, I like him because he seems like a genuinely good person. Maybe the rebellion was ill advised, but it didn't seem to change the fundamental person that he was. He spared Gwayne Corbray's life, even going so far as to order one of his best knights, Redtusk, to bring him to the rear and see that he was tended to. When Bloodraven killed his son, Daemon didn't leave the boy's body there, despite being in a compromising position. He refused to leave his son's body behind, and ultimately paid for it with his own life and the defeat of his forces.

[Anath]

I don't know where everyone is getting the idea that he was someone who just expected everything to be given to him without working for it. Perhaps the reason he didn't hold any high office was because Daeron didn't want him to gain too much influence and power. Of all the great bastards, Daemon was the only threat to Daeron's rule, so Bloodraven's ascension in rank and title posed no threat to Daeron.

Because we were given the reasons he decided to rebel. Making any efforts that went unappreciated was not listed among them. It was only mentioned that he was resentful of being a bastard.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

Hmm, good question.

As a believer in him being the rightful king, I might want to say he was a great person and all that, but we don't have enough to say that. What do we have? That he loved his half-sister/cousin, that Aegon IV possibly thought he should rule the kingdoms, that all the best knights/heroes followed him, that he was persuaded by his friends to claim his throne from the Falseborn, that "half" the Realm fought for him... anything else really?

It is not a lot but I think we can conclude that he was pretty likeable or at least that many would prefer him over the Falseborn. His friends having played an important role in him rebelling could go to show that he is manipulable, or maybe just cautious. As any person, he must have had his good traits and bad, but I do not see how people can claim he was selfish or a prick.

Would people claim Jon is selfish and a prick if he "usurped" Rickon to become tKitN? Jon might feel that he has lived as a bastard his whole life but now is legitimized and named Robb's heir - and might he also consider that he would be better suited to be tKitN than Rickon and have Northern lords urging him on to be tKitN over Rickon.

Good analogy with Jon and Rickon. That's a tough question to answer.

[Antler's Fury]

Uppity meathead. He could have been virtually anything in Daeron's government: Kingsguard commander, master of ships, even Hand. Daeron was not the sort to hold Daemon's status or parentage against him. He treated Bloodraven very well.

Put another way, nothing about Daeron makes me think it was worth thousands of men dying for him to be king.

This. Let's not forget that Daemon was only 14 when his father died. Daeron practically raised him after that. He allowed Daemon and his other bastard siblings to train at the Red Keep alongside his own sons. He let him keep Blackfyre when he probably should have taken it away. The fact that Daemon had fancy, expensive armor and enough free time to allow his head to be filled with treasonous whispers suggests that he must have had enough lands and incomes to number among the Westerosi elite. Daeron could have easily taken everything away from him. Instead, it seems as though Daeron was trying to heal the rift created by his father and rejoin the two branches of the family. Had Daemon cooperated he could have risen high in Daeron's government like Bloodraven. Instead, he was ungrateful and chose to rip his family apart out of ego and a misplaced sense of entitlement.

Would people claim Jon is selfish and a prick if he "usurped" Rickon to become tKitN? Jon might feel that he has lived as a bastard his whole life but now is legitimized and named Robb's heir - and might he also consider that he would be better suited to be tKitN than Rickon and have Northern lords urging him on to be tKitN over Rickon.

Yes! Of course Jon would be a usurper if he took power knowing Rickon lived. I don't know why people keep waving around Robb's will as though it somehow justifies Jon's casually trampling over Rickon's rights. All of the northern lords and Jon himself would know that Robb wrote the will believing that Rickon was dead. At any rate, Jon is certainly not the ambitious, opportunistic prick that Daemon was. Every time we hear about Jon referring to his trueborn siblings it is with deep affection and heartbreak because he thinks them dead. Yet, we are supposed to believe that once Rickon shows up, alive, Jon's going to steal his inheritance? He would never steal Winterfell from Rickon on some flimsy justification, knowing that Robb would not want that, especially considering that Catelyn distrusted him precisely because she feared he would do exactly this.

[Anath]

Good analogy with Jon and Rickon. That's a tough question to answer.

What? The question isn't hard to answer at all. Jon has as much right to abuse a will Robb wrote believing Bran and Rickon were dead as Daemon had to abuse his owning a sword that was not the sword only kings bore - exactly none.

[Anath]

Lol, where do you get this? We have one line in his wiki page saying he was growing resentful of being bastard-born.

... and all it entailed.

What his problem was, exactly? He had a wife. He clearly had enough means to support her and 9 kids, meaning that he didn't need to beg his bread at the side of the road. He was allowed to live at KL where he clearly felt free to pursue his romance with Daenerys (I wonder what the wife did at the time. Probably stayed at their seat busy providing him with heirs.) and listen to bad councillors. He was free to wield this amazing sword that Daeron could and, frankly, should have taken from him. What exactly did he lack for? A seat in the Council? Being Daeron's heir? The Iron Throne itself?

The way I see it, he could want only one thing that he didn't have: being on equal footing with Daeron's own sons. No, he actually wanted a better footing since the only sons of Daeron who received something out of the ordinary were the ones who worked for it. We know next to nothing about Aerys and Rhaegel but they look pretty useless to me, so they were provided for and not given anything extra. Daemon was also provided for but he clearly wanted the extras. Pity he wasn't ready to do something to earn them.

[Antler's Fury]

... and all it entailed.

Exactly. Being bastard born isn't something he could change, even if he was king. And let's not forget that he had been legitimized, which is the best fate a bastard can reasonably expect. Plus, everyone loved him despite his supposedly degrading conception. Not only had he been legitimized for years by the time of his rebellion, his life was far cushier than most true born lords, let alone bastards of lords. What exactly did he have to be "resentful" about?

[Fire Eater]

What Roose Bolton's Pet Leech said, Daemon had plenty of Renly, charming and handsome with a big selfish streak. Plus, I think he knew he would have to kill Daeron to take the throne, and deal with his sons as well, as Baelor and Maekar wouldn't bow to him.

Hmm, good question.

As a believer in him being the rightful king, I might want to say he was a great person and all that, but we don't have enough to say that. What do we have? That he loved his half-sister/cousin, that Aegon IV possibly thought he should rule the kingdoms, that all the best knights/heroes followed him, that he was persuaded by his friends to claim his throne from the Falseborn, that "half" the Realm fought for him... anything else really?

It is not a lot but I think we can conclude that he was pretty likeable or at least that many would prefer him over the Falseborn. His friends having played an important role in him rebelling could go to show that he is manipulable, or maybe just cautious. As any person, he must have had his good traits and bad, but I do not see how people can claim he was selfish or a prick.

Daeron being Aemon's son was a rumor he spread to legitimize his claim. It was better than saying "I'm a bastard usurping my trueborn half-brother who is the rightful king." He was selfish in that he started a war to crown himself king, and the impetus being that the sister he loved was being married off to the Prince of Dorne to bring Dorne into the realm when he himself was married with children. He was willing to tear apart that peace deal with Dorne ending the strife between the IT and Sunspear for personal reasons. Thousands of people died because of his rebellion.

This. Let's not forget that Daemon was only 14 when his father died. Daeron practically raised him after that. He allowed Daemon and his other bastard siblings to train at the Red Keep alongside his own sons. He let him keep Blackfyre when he probably should have taken it away. The fact that Daemon had fancy, expensive armor and enough free time to allow his head to be filled with treasonous whispers suggests that he must have had enough lands and incomes to number among the Westerosi elite. Daeron could have easily taken everything away from him. Instead, it seems as though Daeron was trying to heal the rift created by his father and rejoin the two branches of the family. Had Daemon cooperated he could have risen high in Daeron's government like Bloodraven. Instead, he was ungrateful and chose to rip his family apart out of ego and a misplaced sense of entitlement.

Good point, Daemon likely had lands and a keep of his own given that he couldn't send ravens from the RK proclaiming himself the rightful king without getting caught given the Grand Maester wouldn't have gone along.

[sleath56]

Daemon's tale is more or less the expy of Robert Baratheon's, yet people seem to like Rob all well and nice.

-Both rebel against crown with dubious blood claim (Bastardy taint and Baratheon lineage)

-Both were fighting to save the person they loved. (Lyanna from Rhaegar and Daenerys from Martell)

-Both are strong warriors

-Both are quite charismatic

-Both had wars that tore the realm apart

Except in the end, one lost and the other won. Indeed, Robert isn't the ideal king, but I see nowhere the amount of bashing for him... are you guys just all fanboys for a winning side? :P

[Antler's Fury]

Daemon's tale is more or less the expy of Robert Baratheon's, yet people seem to like Rob all well and nice.

-Both rebel against crown with dubious blood claim (Bastardy taint and Baratheon lineage)

-Both were fighting to save the person they loved. (Lyanna from Rhaegar and Daenarys from Martell)

-Both are strong warriors

-Both are quite charismatic

-Both had wars that tore the realm apart

Except in the end, one lost and the other won. Indeed, Robert isn't the ideal king, but I see nowhere the amount of bashing for him... are you guys just all fanboys for a winning side? :P

Um...did you forget that Aerys was a mass-murdering lunatic who threatened Robert's life and Daeron was one of the best kings of the Targaryen dynasty? Robert believed that Rhaegar had kidnapped and raped Lyanna. In contrast, the match between Daenerys and Maron Martell was legal.

[Anath]

Daemon's tale is more or less the expy of Robert Baratheon's, yet people seem to like Rob all well and nice.

-Both rebel against crown with dubious blood claim (Bastardy taint and Baratheon lineage)

-Both were fighting to save the person they loved. (Lyanna from Rhaegar and Daenerys from Martell)

-Both are strong warriors

-Both are quite charismatic

-Both had wars that tore the realm apart

Except in the end, one lost and the other won. Indeed, Robert isn't the ideal king, but I see nowhere the amount of bashing for him... are you guys just all fanboys for a winning side? :P

Robert thought Lyanna was being raped. By their standards, she was his.

Daenerys' marriage was a political deal, like virtually every other marriage of every other noble in Westeros. Actually, Daemon was planning to steal her. It's Daemon who'd like to play the role of Rhaegar the Rapist, not Maron Martell.

Yeah, exactly the same situation. Riiiight.

[CosimaistheHottest]

What Roose Bolton's Pet Leech said, Daemon had plenty of Renly, charming and handsome with a big selfish streak. Plus, I think he knew he would have to kill Daeron to take the throne, and deal with his sons as well as Baelor and Maekar wouldn't bow to him.

Yea. Daemon would have to step over alot of bodies to take the Iron Throne.

Daemon's tale is more or less the expy of Robert Baratheon's, yet people seem to like Rob all well and nice.

-Both rebel against crown with dubious blood claim (Bastardy taint and Baratheon lineage)

-Both were fighting to save the person they loved. (Lyanna from Rhaegar and Daenerys from Martell)

-Both are strong warriors

-Both are quite charismatic

-Both had wars that tore the realm apart

Except in the end, one lost and the other won. Indeed, Robert isn't the ideal king, but I see nowhere the amount of bashing for him... are you guys just all fanboys for a winning side? :P

I don't think people like Robert all well and nice. He gets badmouthed all the time. There are also people who like Daemon and believe in his claim.

They didn't even rebel for the same reasons. Robert, Ned and Jon Arryn rebelled because the King had started murdering lords without fair trials and then started calling for heads of innocents. Robert wasn't the only one involved in his war. Ned Stark and Jon Arryn had just as much stake involved since the heads of both Robert and Ned were called.

[sleath56]

Robert thought Lyanna was being raped. By their standards, she was his.

Daenerys' marriage was a political deal, like virtually every other marriage of every other noble in Westeros. Actually, Daemon was planning to steal her. It's Daemon who'd like to play the role of Rhaegar the Rapist, not Maron Martell.

Yeah, exactly the same situation. Riiiight.

What's the difference? Unconsenual arranged marriage sex is not rape to you? It is clear that Daenerys hated the marriage, and which was the reason Martell built the Water Gardens for her.

There is also backup for Daenerys reciprocating Daemon's love, just for you to keep in mind.

[CosimaistheHottest]

What's the difference? Unconsenual arranged marriage sex is not rape to you? It is clear that Daenerys hated the marriage, and which was the reason Martell built the Water Gardens for her.

There is also backup for Daenerys reciprocating Daemon's love, just for you to keep in mind.

No it isn't clear that Daenerys hated the marriage. I thought the water gardens were a present for his bride for their wedding.

[Anath]

What's the difference? Unconsenual arranged marriage sex is not rape to you? It is clear that Daenerys hated the marriage, and which was the reason Martell built the Water Gardens for her.

There is also backup for Daenerys reciprocating Daemon's love, just for you to keep in mind.

What makes you think the marriage was unwanted by Daenerys? She didn't rebel. Daemon did.

Anything pointing out that she actively refused to marry?

And Daemon was already married, just for you to keep in mind.

[sleath56]

Um...did you forget that Aerys was a mass-murdering lunatic who threatened Robert's life and Daeron was one of the best kings of the Targaryen dynasty? Robert believed that Rhaegar had kidnapped and raped Lyanna. In contrast, the match between Daenerys and Maron Martell was legal.

History is written by the victors.

Also, I am not suggesting Daemon is a carbon copy of Robert, if you had misunderstood.