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Rhaegar and Lyanna


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29 replies to this topic

#1 A Lonely Dornishmen

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:39 AM

I finished all the books a few months ago, but have recently gotten back into them with an urge to know EVERYTHING. One thing I always wondered about the start Roberts Rebellion was how Rhaegar ended up with Lyanna. I know Rhaegar won a tourney and crowned her queen of beauty or something, but is that when and where he took her? Or was he at Winterfell at some point?

Just so we're clear, this isn't about if he kidnapped Lyanna or if she willingly went with him( which I do believe), but where he took her from. Sorry if this isn't in the right section or something, I'm rather new AND on my phone.

#2 joluoto2

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:44 AM

About a year after the tourney he "kidnapped" her. We don't know in detail what happened, and we have no idea if Lyanna was willing or not.



#3 Stannis Eats No Peaches

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:49 AM

About a year after the tourney he "kidnapped" her. We don't know in detail what happened, and we have no idea if Lyanna was willing or not.

This, though it seems likely that she went willingly.

#4 A Lonely Dornishmen

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:52 AM

About a year after the tourney he "kidnapped" her. We don't know in detail what happened, and we have no idea if Lyanna was willing or not.


Ahhh. So it's never actually clear where he "kidnapped" her then?

#5 Allyria Winterborn

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:56 AM

Nope, the circumstances are unclear, mainly because the people involved in the ”kidnapping” (Rhaegar, Lyanna and Rhaegar's most trusted friends, Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower) are all dead, so we don't have their POV. So we have no idea where or how it happened, only that it was a few months (up to a year) after Harrenhal.



#6 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

It is unknown where Lyanna was when she disappeared. All that is known is that she disappeared about a year after the Tourney at Harrenhal (which happened in 281 AC, placing Lyanna's disappearance in 282 AC). Rhaegar was obviously involved with her disappearance, and with him he brought Ser Oswell Whent and Ser Arthur Dayne. They eventually ended up at the Tower of Joy, where Gerold Hightower found them.

 

It is unknown where Lyanna was prior to her disappearance, or where she, Rhaegar and the two KG Knights stayed before ending up at ToJ, or if they travelled there directly. It is also unknown who the informant was of Lyanna's (and previously Rhaegars) location to Gerold Hightower and Ned Stark.

 

We know extremely little, I'm afraid :)

 

However, I must note that it seems unlikely that Lyanna was at Winterfell, since Brandon seems to have heard of Lyanna's disappearance before Rickard did, seeing as how Brandon acted first, while he was travelling to Riverrun. Had Lyanna been at Winterfell, Rickard would have found out first, and he would most likely have send word to Riverrun, since that's where Brandon would be arriving.

 

It also seems unlikely that Lyanna was at Storm's End. Her betrothed wasn't there, after all, and it might have been unheard of.. Especially since it seems as if no family member of Lyanna's was with her when she went missing. A lady at the castle of her betrothed would be accompanied at all times, most likely by a relative. It can't have been Brandon, who was on his was to Riverrun, or Ned, who was at the Eyrie, or Rickard, who was North, or Benjen, who was north when Rickard went south, since there must always be a Stark at Winterfell.


Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen, 11 February 2014 - 02:57 PM.


#7 Northbound2.0

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:24 PM

There was a fine theory about her location and where she went missing from, by one of the more renown posters on here(I want to say Mladen, but i'm not sure). It of course it is just a theory, because we really don't know, but the the gaps and timeline add up nicely.  I'm going to serach for it now and post the link; if i can find it. Maybe the poster of the theory, will see this thread and he or she will do the same.


Edited by Northbound2.0, 11 February 2014 - 02:09 PM.


#8 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

There was a fine theory about her location and where she went missing from, by one of the more renown posters on here. It of course is pure speculation, because we really don't know. The the gaps and wholes seemed to line up. I'm going to serach for it now and post the link; if i can find it. Maybe the poster of the theory, will see this thread and he or she will do the same.

 

The only theory I know of that stands some ground is Lyanna being at Harrenhal. Due to what happened during the Tourney, Rickard could have wanted Lyanna to spend some time amongst women, to learn how to become a proper Southern lady. Catelyn never met her, apparently, so it wasn't Riverrun. Lyanna already was at Harrenhal, so she could have stayed there.

 

If that is the theory you are referring to, I'm sure the OP of said thread is a lot better in explaining it :)



#9 Northbound2.0

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

 

The only theory I know of that stands some ground is Lyanna being at Harrenhal. Due to what happened during the Tourney, Rickard could have wanted Lyanna to spend some time amongst women, to learn how to become a proper Southern lady. Catelyn never met her, apparently, so it wasn't Riverrun. Lyanna already was at Harrenhal, so she could have stayed there.

 

If that is the theory you are referring to, I'm sure the OP of said thread is a lot better in explaining it :)

 

I believe that is the one. Was it yours?



#10 Ghost's Shadow

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:36 PM

It is unknown where Lyanna was when she disappeared. All that is known is that she disappeared about a year after the Tourney at Harrenhal (which happened in 281 AC, placing Lyanna's disappearance in 282 AC). Rhaegar was obviously involved with her disappearance, and with him he brought Ser Oswell Whent and Ser Arthur Dayne. They eventually ended up at the Tower of Joy, where Gerold Dayne found them.

 

It is unknown where Lyanna was prior to her disappearance, or where she, Rhaegar and the two KG Knights stayed before ending up at ToJ, or if they travelled there directly. It is also unknown who the informant was of Lyanna's (and previously Rhaegars) location to Gerold Dayne and Ned Stark.

 

We know extremely little, I'm afraid :)

 

However, I must note that it seems unlikely that Lyanna was at Winterfell, since Brandon seems to have heard of Lyanna's disappearance before Rickard did, seeing as how Brandon acted first, while he was travelling to Riverrun. Had Lyanna been at Winterfell, Rickard would have found out first, and he would most likely have send word to Riverrun, since that's where Brandon would be arriving.

 

It also seems unlikely that Lyanna was at Storm's End. Her betrothed wasn't there, after all, and it might have been unheard of.. Especially since it seems as if no family member of Lyanna's was with her when she went missing. A lady at the castle of her betrothed would be accompanied at all times, most likely by a relative. It can't have been Brandon, who was on his was to Riverrun, or Ned, who was at the Eyrie, or Rickard, who was North, or Benjen, who was north when Rickard went south, since there must always be a Stark at Winterfell.

 

Gerold Dayne (Dorkstar) versus Ser Gerold Hightower, sweetie.


Edited by Ghost's Shadow, 11 February 2014 - 01:37 PM.


#11 King of Winters

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

The only theory I know of that stands some ground is Lyanna being at Harrenhal. Due to what happened during the Tourney, Rickard could have wanted Lyanna to spend some time amongst women, to learn how to become a proper Southern lady. Catelyn never met her, apparently, so it wasn't Riverrun. Lyanna already was at Harrenhal, so she could have stayed there.
 
If that is the theory you are referring to, I'm sure the OP of said thread is a lot better in explaining it :)

:agree: I think Lyanna was at Harrenhal.

#12 Ygrain

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:03 PM

:agree: I think Lyanna was at Harrenhal.

So do I :-)



#13 BlackStark

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:46 PM

Isn't Harrenhal an odd choice to in effect have Lyanna fostered?  Considering the Starks' pending ties to the Tullys and the presence of two Southron ladies of comparable age (Catelyn and Lysa, one of whom was about to become her sister-in-law), would not Riverrun have been the better choice?



#14 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:04 PM

 

I believe that is the one. Was it yours?

No, it isn't mine. But I do believe in it :)

 

 

Gerold Dayne (Dorkstar) versus Ser Gerold Hightower, sweetie.

Ooops!! O_o... I have been reading a lot about Gerold Dayne the last few days, I am afraid in my haste of typing I switched their names.

 

Thank you for catching it :D I've edited it to Hightower, who was, of course, the person I was referring to

 

:agree: I think Lyanna was at Harrenhal.

 

Me too :)

 

Isn't Harrenhal an odd choice to in effect have Lyanna fostered?  Considering the Starks' pending ties to the Tullys and the presence of two Southron ladies of comparable age (Catelyn and Lysa, one of whom was about to become her sister-in-law), would not Riverrun have been the better choice?

Lyanna was already at Harrenhal for the Tourney. Rickard might not have wanted to bring any sort of reputation onto the Tully's, seeing as Lyanna was part of a scandal. Having her fostered (if only for a year or two) at Harrenhal, would not be disrespectful to the Tully's in anyway, since Hosters wife was a Whent (and agewise, it is possible that Minisa was a sister to Lord Whent, or a cousin otherwise). Fostering Lyanna with the Whents would be logical for those reasons.

 

In addition, Catelyn would not remain at Riverrun for much longer, since she was to wed Brandon within the year. So only Lysa would be left as higborn girl at Riverrun, while at Harrenhal, you'd have the fair maiden from the story Meera told, and Lady Sherra Whent, Lord Whent's wife.



#15 Ygrain

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:08 PM

Isn't Harrenhal an odd choice to in effect have Lyanna fostered?  Considering the Starks' pending ties to the Tullys and the presence of two Southron ladies of comparable age (Catelyn and Lysa, one of whom was about to become her sister-in-law), would not Riverrun have been the better choice?

The late Lady Tully was Whent, so not that odd at all. Furthermore, the ties to Riverrun are established already; what use for Rickard's southron ambitions to send Lyanna there? At that time, the Whents were rich and influential, and they have a young daughter, as well. 

 

Plus, there are metatextual reasons: an awful lot of events are tied to Harrenhal, not to mention the intriguing Isle of Faces nearby. Why there and not elsewhere, why is it all revolving around it?



#16 shonaxxx

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:12 PM

a question about rhaegar; ive read in the books that he liked to write, sing and read books till a certain age, then smth happend and after that he trained hard to become a great knight; why's that?


Edited by shonaxxx, 11 February 2014 - 03:12 PM.


#17 King of Winters

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:14 PM

a question about rhaegar; ive read in the books that he liked to write, sing and read books till a certain age, then smth happend and after that he trained hard to become a great knight; why's that?


The theory is that he read something to do with TPTWP/AAR and thought it might be him, so trained to be a warrior.

#18 Apple Martini

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

Even though the "abduction" occurred after the tourney, I think Lyanna stayed at Harrenhal after to network, prep for Brandon's wedding and learn southern customs. Another clue pointing to Harrenhal is Whent's apparent assistance. Being from Harrenhal, he'd know the area and the castle if they needed to get away. Plus the Isle of Faces and/or Meribald are in the area as outlets for a marriage.

And like Ygrain said, a lot always goes back to Harrenhal, even things in the novellas. It is obviously of supreme importance (I think it's a microcosm of Westeros itself). It's significant.

As for how they originally met, Lyanna was the Knight of the Laughing Tree, Rhaegar found her out and it's all history from there.

#19 Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:54 PM

The late Lady Tully was Whent, so not that odd at all. Furthermore, the ties to Riverrun are established already; what use for Rickard's southron ambitions to send Lyanna there? At that time, the Whents were rich and influential, and they have a young daughter, as well. 

 

Plus, there are metatextual reasons: an awful lot of events are tied to Harrenhal, not to mention the intriguing Isle of Faces nearby. Why there and not elsewhere, why is it all revolving around it?

 

Ooo! Throwing in the Southern Ambitions of Rickard... How could I forget to mention those? :P

 

Nice.



#20 dragonsrule

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:05 PM

I haven't read the Harrenhal theory, but couldn't Lyanna have been travelling to Riverrun with Brandon at the time of the incident? Brandon was going there to get married, it could make sense that one of his famiy members would attend the wedding. And if he went to get Lyanna, it would explain why he left Riverrun between the duel and the wedding which was only a short time later. It would explain why Brandon seemed to be the first to know and also why he immediately knew that she was with Rhegear and had not been attacked by bandits. It would be reasonable for Rhegear to also have been invited, providing a reason for him to be in the area instead of at KL.