Boarders writing a novel, Part 11

[Zoë Sumra]

LH, I would change it (Find -> Replace... I love technology) unless you are writing YA, and maybe even then. Ultimately if you get a publisher you will have to conform to house style, which is probably "all right".

Ella Darklyn, if I don't write daily I don't get anything done for months. Knowing this is a great motivation! Momentum helps psychologically for me. Not everyone is the same.

Following MSWL I've done ten submissions in the past few days and am exhausted. Let's wait and see...

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

What are peoples opinions on submitting to overseas agents?

Yay or nay?

[The Marquis de Leech]

What are peoples opinions on submitting to overseas agents?

Yay or nay?

Kind of necessary in my case, ;)

Only go for the ones that allow electronic submissions.

[Lady Howell]

What traits do you classify as Mary Sue-ish? I ask because I personally I worry about some of my character's appearances right off the bat putting people off and thinking to themselves, "Oh god, a Mary Sue" or something along those lines.

Could you guys please point out any red flags in their descriptions...

Main Character: He's a lean fifteen year old that looks younger than what he is sometimes thanks to his school uniform (out of his uniform, he looks his age usually). He takes after his mom, inheriting her dirty blond hair and round face as well as her nose. He has his father's blue eyes and inherited little else from him.

Female Lead: She's a petite teenage girl, looks about fifteen, hardly over five feet tall, with chocolate brown eyes and lots of freckles. Her hair is ginger red, curly, and long. She is notably beautiful.

Important Supporting Male Character: He has honey blond hair and golden brown eyes, handsome face, and infectious smile. He's an older teen, about seventeen in appearance.

Important Supporting Female Character: She is a teenage girl, looks about fifteen, who at the start of the story has brown hair and hazel eyes, but for good reasons I swear, by the end of it has auburn and light brown eyes. She is notably beautiful throughout the story.

Any red flags?

[Spockydog]

What traits do you classify as Mary Sue-ish?

I don't think that means what you think it means.

[Lady Howell]

I don't think that means what you think it means.

Traits that people often accuse as being common traits of a Mary Sue. I know weird, unnatural hair colors or eye colors--like purple hair or eyes--can be classified as Mary Sue-ish.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Mary Sues aren't (normally) defined by appearance. They're defined by how they relate to the world around them - are they talented beyond all reason, does everyone else love them, or start acting strangely around them? In other words, does the world warp itself to suit this character?

It's perfectly possible to have an ordinary-looking Mary Sue, and an exotic looking non-Sue.

[SpaceChampion]

The way I view Mary Sues are that they have no possibility to develop psychologically because they are already every type of archetype. They're the perfect leader, the best of friends, the smartest scientist, engineer, wizard, the most athletic in her class, the most righteously angry at injustices, the funniest class clown, the greatest artist, most dangerous rebel, and most empathetic. She's fully achieved all needs on Maslow's hierarchy so has no where to really go, so there might be a plot that shows her being the best but no real arc, no flaws.

[Lady Howell]

Mary Sues aren't (normally) defined by appearance. They're defined by how they relate to the world around them - are they talented beyond all reason, does everyone else love them, or start acting strangely around them? In other words, does the world warp itself to suit this character?

It's perfectly possible to have an ordinary-looking Mary Sue, and an exotic looking non-Sue.

This is one of the most clear cut definitions to a Mary Sue I've ever seen on the internet. Others always tend to confuse me because they include a bunch of 'if's and 'or's.

Thank you.

So, I guess my character's appearances are in the clear. None of them really have reality warped to suit them, so...Again, thanks.

[Zoë Sumra]

That moment when you submit a book via an online form and realise just after pressing it that you used your regular email address rather than the one with your name in the handle. :dunce: Oops.

[Ella Darklyn]

Boo, Eloisa! But at least it's coming to /you/ still, and not some random other person that has a similar name....

Related to my earlier complaining, I have gotten back on the consistent writing (mostly editing, really) train now that my writing group is regularly meeting again. I plan to participate in the April Camp Nanowrimo, which is now my motivation to finish editing the existing wreck of a plot into a good first 20k or so by the end of the month and use the Camp writing period to get back up to at least 50k total of /good/ work this time, and not the horrible plot-hole-filled nonsense I churned out for the regular NaNo. I think a slower writing speed will help. And then if I can keep going I'd like to have my first draft done by June when my work life goes crazy!

[Ebenstone]

That moment when you submit a book via an online form and realise just after pressing it that you used your regular email address rather than the one with your name in the handle. :dunce: Oops.

Don't sweat it too much. I once wrote the wrong agent's name while querying. I realized my mistake and sent a second email apologizing and saying that I understand her immediate rejection. She got back to me immediately saying not to sweat it and that she was still considering the query. She ultimately passed on it but was very nice about it.

[Starkess]

I would be really thrown if I was reading and saw "all right" written out like that, unless it wasn't being used in the same context as "alright." Compare: "I asked for my bridesmaids to coordinate with my sea foam color scheme, and their dresses were all right." and "I saw my bridesmaids dresses and they're alright." To me those read completely differently. And if it was dialogue ("How are you?" "I'm all right." That just jumps out to me in the wrong way.) it would be even more noticeable.

Maybe because I'm a relatively young writer (26), but I would leave the "alright."

[SpaceChampion]

It seems more like slang, not a real word. It's like using "groovy", "out of sight, man", or "I'm hep to it, brother". It's slang correct to a time and a place. It is correct for a secondary world medieval fantasy or a hard sf space opera? Signs points to no.

[Lady Howell]

It seems more like slang, not a real word. It's like using "groovy", "out of sight, man", or "I'm hep to it, brother". It's slang correct to a time and a place. It is correct for a secondary world medieval fantasy or a hard sf space opera? Signs points to no.

My story takes place in modern times though, and the characters are fairly young as well. So I guess that means it's okay for me to continue using it in the correct context...

[False Alarm]

Compare: "I asked for my bridesmaids to coordinate with my sea foam color scheme, and their dresses were all right." and "I saw my bridesmaids dresses and they're alright."

i've always found this a somewhat persuasive argument and it's why i don't come down very hard on "alright" in most kinds of writing (also just cuz i understand usage changes over time). but i think it's also an issue that muddles meaning less than "alright" proponents would like to think. "I saw my bridesmaids' dresses, and they were all right" is, in a vacuum, a perfectly clear sentence that would confuse no reasonably literate reader. the dresses were fine. because of the added context of the color scheme in the first clause, the meaning of "all right" is clear in the other sentence as well.

("How are you?" "I'm all right." That just jumps out to me in the wrong way.)

no generally accepted usage guides or stylebooks in the united states agree with you. none. very few professional editors agree with you. some sources accept "alright" as an equal variant, sure, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anything accepted as authoritative that condemns "all right" in the ways you've used it.

i think "alright" is more accepted in british english than american english btw. i'm not as up on my british usage manuals.

[Starkess]

no generally accepted usage guides or stylebooks in the united states agree with you. none. very few professional editors agree with you. some sources accept "alright" as an equal variant, sure, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anything accepted as authoritative that condemns "all right" in the ways you've used it.

i think "alright" is more accepted in british english than american english btw. i'm not as up on my british usage manuals.

Sure, I wasn't speaking to usage guides. Those are just guides, after all, and especially in novel-writing things can be done differently.

[Lady Howell]

I'm having dialogue troubles again, God (Forum) help me.

I have this Scottish character in the books (as well as plenty of Welsh characters), but I'm torn between actually writing the accents, or just leaving those to the audience's imaginations and telling rather than showing like other authors have done.

On one hand, I don't want to be or seem lazy. On the other, I want the audience to be able to comprehend what the character is saying without having to reread the line multiple times to decipher the written accent.

I toyed with the idea of hand waving the whole thing as "Well, he hasn't lived in Scotland for a couple years, so his accent's faded" or "It's only a light accent". But again, I don't want to do lazy work or accidentally insult any Scottish people by messing up the accent, same with Welsh people and the Welsh characters.

Is there any right choice, or one better than the other, because honestly I don't know which.

[First of My Name]

I'm having dialogue troubles again, God (Forum) help me.

I have this Scottish character in the books (as well as plenty of Welsh characters), but I'm torn between actually writing the accents, or just leaving those to the audience's imaginations and telling rather than showing like other authors have done.

On one hand, I don't want to be or seem lazy. On the other, I want the audience to be able to comprehend what the character is saying without having to reread the line multiple times to decipher the written accent.

I toyed with the idea of hand waving the whole thing as "Well, he hasn't lived in Scotland for a couple years, so his accent's faded" or "It's only a light accent". But again, I don't want to do lazy work or accidentally insult any Scottish people by messing up the accent, same with Welsh people and the Welsh characters.

Is there any right choice, or one better than the other, because honestly I don't know which.

You could write things like:

'I visited my mother yesterday,' he said in his Scottish accent.

Of course, you can't write that everytime he speaks, but if you do it occassionally (or have other characters react to the accent) you could remind the reader that he speaks like that without the words being difficult to read.

[Lady Howell]

You could write things like:

'I visited my mother yesterday,' he said in his Scottish accent.

Of course, you can't write that everytime he speaks, but if you do it occassionally (or have other characters react to the accent) you could remind the reader that he speaks like that without the words being difficult to read.

That's a good idea. Thank you.