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Gerold Dayne, Squire at the Tower of joy?


The Weirwoods Eyes

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So many of you will have seen me floating my little crackpot around for the last few months. I have never really put it all together properly before and so I have decided to lay bare my crackpot for scrutiny...



Gerold Dayne aka Darkstar. Born around 271-273 to House Dayne of High Hermitage a cadet branch of the renowned house Dayne of starfall.



I propose that he was a squire to a member of the Kings Guard and present at the Tower of Joy.



My basis for this is, 1 he is one of the few known characters who would have been at the right age to be Squire at the time, ToJ events took place in 283 placing Darkstar at between 10 & 12 their are so many in book references to boys squiring at this age and slightly younger, Prince Doran says he went to Squire at age 9, the Frey boy who Squires for ramsey after the sack of Winterfell are 8, Edric Dayne is 12 when we meet him in ASOS and has been squire to ser Beric for a few years at least as the BWB have been in the riverlands at least a year and he was already Squire to Beric prior to them setting out at Neds behest in AGOT. So I have established that Gerold Dayne was old enough to be a Squire in 282/283 at teh time of RR.



So why do I think he was a Squire? well he is described as the most dangerous man in Dorne, why? sure he is a good swordsman but is he really so amazing to be granted such a title? many people have proposed that its who he is which makes him so dangerous, with some rather far fetched secret identity theories having been put forward. I think its what he knows not who he is which poses such a threat.


If he was present at the ToJ and perhaps even at Rhaegar & Lyanna's wedding, why would this knowledge be such a threat to Dorne? Well Doran has had a plan ever since the rebellion to wed his daughter to the Targaryan heir and re take the iron throne, if Jon & not Viserys is actually the heir then having this come to light would wreck Dorans plan. When Viserys dies he switches the plan from Arianne to her brother, thinking to crown Daenarys instead. but still if Jons lineage comes to light the plan is scuppered.


Doran would not want to place the son of the woman whom Rhaegar forsook Elia for on the throne nor wed his child to that womans child. I suspect keeping Darkstar quiet was a priority for Doran and Oberyn.



Ned Stark kills no children, this gives us an answer as to how the squire survived the ToJ, we know Ned and Howland were not the only survivors as Ned recalls that "they" found him, this is largely taken to mean servants, but a Squire could feasibly be included in that number. We know from Jamie taking a squire into the Riverlands that KG do at times have Squires.



So if Darkstar was there and Ned isn't going to kill him what would he do with the boy? Return him to the main branch of his family is my guess with a vow never to speak of what went down. But the Martells would surely wish to speak with this boy who was privy to the events at the conclusion to the rebellion, and so Oberyn & Doran show up and speak to him, again swearing him to secrecy, perhaps even using less pleasant tactics, threats lies, manipulation. This could be the Venom Gerold says he was weaned on, he is after all a rather embittered young man when we meet him.



Darkstar gives a speech about names when Gared speaks with some pride about his own namesake, perhaps Darkstar is not so keen upon his own namesake, we assume to have been Gerold Hightower, if he were a Squire to one of teh KG he would have spent time with the man and so maybe he didn't like what he saw of him during the time at the ToJ. Who knows what went on there prior to Ned showing up? Just a bit of an observation, I don't know if this is significant in anyway. But he says of Darkstar at least it is my own, as if he feels disconnected from his given name and feels that it is not a name he wishes to bare, he points out in their exchange that Gared was no hero, but in fact led many to their deaths, so not someone to be truly proud to share a name with. In spite of what the songs and stories may infer.


ETA: I think GRRM is telling us with this story that Gerold Hightower led the KG at the ToJ to there death. And that this is in part why Darkstar dislikes his name, he was there and he saw how pointless the fight was. Hightower led Arthur & Oswald to their deaths for a lost cause. The war was lost the Targs destroyed. So Hightower was not the great man people speak of him as to darkstar he was a fool. I also think perhaps Gerold is bitter that hightower refused help for Lyanna. I wonder what his 10-12 yr old thought as he watched a girl just a few yrs older die without any attempt at helping her? I reckon he'd think pretty badly of the man in charge of that situation. thats my speculation anyhow.



Arianne and Gerold Dayne have been lovers, but we are given the impression that it was not an open affair, she feels her father would not approve if she were to take him for a consort, she thinks of him as a good swordsman and implies he is unpredictable and not easy to read. Which implies he plays his hand close to his chest, maybe he has learnt not to trust people due to his experiences, a life time of being used and manipulated, threatened etc would do this to you and would be the impetuous to practice hard at swords. If one never quite trusts those around you.



As an aside from my theory I noted during my re reads that Darkstar does not drink the wine and instead drinks unsweetened lemonwater. One thinks at first that this is because he is described overwhelmingly as bitter and angry and that the drink suits his disposition, which I think is very true. but it also feels like an indicator that this man expected to have to fight soon he did not want his reactions clouded by drink.



And so to the talk of venom & Vipers, what has oft been taken as an indicator he is the son of Oberyn I think implies a life of threat.


"Watch where you put your feet," "It has been a while since prince Oberyn milked the local vipers"


"I was weaned on Venom Dalt, any Viper takes a bite of me will rue it."


He was weaned on venom ie: he endured prince Oberyn's venom from a young age when the Martell Princes began their campaign to keep him quiet, not that he was ever going to speak of the ToJ, and this is why he is so angry, he proclaims any Viper takes a bite of him will rue it. That sounds like a threat to me, he's grown up now he's a man not a boy and he has honed his swordsmanship and won't be pushed around any more. if they come for him now they'll regret it.



It also strikes me the similar wording between this verbal exchange and Doran's speech to Arianne about his and Oberyn's symbiotic rulership style.


Is Gerold so unafraid because the Viper is dead and he thinks the grass benign?






I am not blind, nor deaf. I know you all believe me weak, frightened, feeble. Your father knew me better. Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him. I was the grass. Pleasant, complaisant, sweet-smelling, swaying with every breeze. Who fears to walk upon the grass? But it is the grass that hides the viper from his enemies and shelters him until he strikes.


Here we are literally being told that Oberyn is the Viper the two turns of phrase are too similar to be coincidental imo. Dalt tells Gerold to be wary of stepping on a viper and Doran says Oberyn was the Viper no man dared tread on, Gerold says he is not afraid of the viper, that he was weaned upon its venom. And that if the viper bites him it will rue the day. If we take it that Oberyn is the Viper being discussed, and I think given dorans later proclamation that Oberyn should have killed Darkstar long ago, along side these two dialogues that we ought to. Then it makes sense that there has been an ongoing hostile relationship between the three men. Doran then calls Gerold the most dangerous man in Dorne. It could be because he knows how Myrcella was injured, or it could be because of whatever this ongoing hostility between the Martells and Ser Gerold is? I find the fact that so much of this chapter is given over to seemingly obscure conversations between Darkstar and the other members of the party very compelling towards the idea that he is significant in some way. That these odd snippets of conversation are significant.




Gerold seems jealous of Arthurs reputation when Marcella refers to him on their introduction. In retort to being told Arthur was a great knight, He says that Arthur had a great sword, that his house goes back tens of thousands of years yet all anyone remembers is his cousin.


Gerold if he was his Squire would know how good Arthur was and seen him die. Did Arthur die without Dawn in his hand. Is this why Gerold thinks it was the sword not the man who was great?



He certainly seems disillusioned with the fable of Arthurs prowess. in keeping with a child who thought for sure his cousin would win the fight but instead watched him loose.



Arianne has faith in Gerolds swordmanship she says they need his castle, and when she considers that the Yronwoods might side against her she says she would have Darkstar destroy them, root and Branch. I think this points to the Daynes of high Hermitage being perhaps a rather strong and powerful household, with Gerold perhaps being the head of that branch, though an unwed one. It certainly seems he has autonomy. Maybe for the first time since he was returned from the ToJ, with his father gone there is no one to keep him in line, maybe his family where in league with the Martells in keeping him quiet? Thats certainly enough to create such an Angry bitter man.


One who is now a rather dangerous loose cannon.



It would seem he is determined to have war, he urges Arianne to kill Myrcella not crown her as a surer route and mentions the suggestion again in jest when the sun begins to come up, then when it seems Doran has discovered the plot and the plan is lost he seeks to secure war by attempting to kill the princess.


Some think it was Darkstar who betrayed the plot and who was behind the maiming of Myrcella. I am undecided. If he was it would imply Gerold is still the frightened boy who is in the Martells thrall, I think his level of anger and cockyness implies he feels free now Oberyn is dead. But yet I can not think why he would want war with the Lannisters so much? Unless in revenge for Ned Stark, the man who spared his life all those years ago?



Arianne muses on who told, she thinks Darkstar as she cannot believe her childhood friends would betray her, but answers her own quearies it makes no sense for dayne to tell, he would gain nothing, if he were the leak why slice up Myrcella's face? he wanted all out war and would kill the child to get it.


I think Arianne is overlooking the other members of the Lannister household when she considers who told, Rosalynd might have been the one to tell, she may have been frightened and gone to their Septa or the guard put in place of Arys. He may have felt that the plan was sure to fail and betrayed Arys's trust. It did not have to be one of Ariannes group.



Areo Hotah seems cross that Gerold has evaded him, I think this is telling if Gerold was in Dorans pocket he would not have looked so purturbed by loosing the chase. The irritation is genuine.



And so on to that line.


Prince Doran finally brings Arianne out of the tower and they talk, she asks if they have cought Ser Gerold. Doran replies "would that we had, you were a fool to make him part of this.Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne. You and he have done us all great harm."



So Doran is berating Arianne, and says darkstar is The most dangerous man in Dorne, I believe because of what he knows. not because of what he just did to myrcella. though his actions could indeed be deadly for Dorne as we know they are not as militarily strong as the realm believes and all out war could crush them.


We learn from Doran what he thinks occured that Myrcellas horse shied away and the sword struck off her ear and sliced her cheek to the bone. He talks of the dishonour of harm coming to his Ward.


They conspire to make darkstar the fall guy, this comes so easily for them both, Arianne believes he was the one to betray her and it only a half lie, after all he did harm Myrcella if not kill Arys. But Doran has IMO another reason to wish Darkstar dead and atainted.



I've missed off the info given on him in the Sample Chapters as I can't recall how to do Spoiler boxes.



But I don't believe any of it would rule out my theory.



So there you have it I think he was a Squire to his cousin at the ToJ and knows that Rhaegar & Lyanna where married and had a child, who is Jon Snow.


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The only thing that's in the sample chapter that is new, is this:


"Is that what Darkstar is? A man?" Ser Daemon grimaced. "A man would not have done what he did to Princess Myrcella. Ser Gerold is more a viper than your uncle ever was. Prince Oberyn could see that he was poison, he said so more than once. It’s just a pity that he never got around to killing him."

We don't know anything about Gerolds family, but since he's never mentioned to be ruler of High Hermitage, or the heir, we cannot assume he rules there on his own. As to his jealousy about Arthur: Arthur is the most well known Dayne around, and the only famous male Dayne. Gerold seems to be an arrogant guy. Even though he is considered a dangerous man, he is not known outside of Dorne. He wants fame, obviously, and he appears to be wroth that Arthur still is more famous now than he is.

Such an arrogant person as Gerold (which I'm sure you're not :) ), would not like it to be constantly asked about your extremely more famous cousin (no matter how distant a cousin)?

In addition to the likelyhood of Gerold having been a squire at ToJ and his survival being because of 1) not having fought and 2) Ned not killing children...

Had Gerold indeed been there as a squire, he would have fought. Squires fight with their knights, even in battles where the odds are against them.

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There's nothing to rule it out at this point, but I'd think that one of our surviving witnesses from the Tower of Joy would have related Darkstar's presence at some point. Ned would have been the most likely, but Howland is still in play and we're still waiting to hear from him.



Alternatively, we could have heard it from Edric Dayne, or perhaps from Barbrey Dustin. The news would've been secondhand at that point, but it would still be fairly believable coming from either of them.



I just don't see enough support for it in the story to date for this to be true or to have any significance. Gerold Dayne really seems to have a complex about Arthur, suggesting that perhaps he was spurned, not squired, by the Sword of the Morning.


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Interesting OP and well presented. I'm also inclined to think that Darkstar's may be dangerous due to knowledge he possesses. We've discussed before that the proximity of High Hermitage to the Tower of Joy makes it possible that he attained some knowledge of the events there in one of a variety of ways (perhaps he had knowledge of messages delivered or received, heard servants' gossip, or even personally observing a curious caravan of two knights accompanied by a woman and a baby and a horse bearing a grim burden?)



I'd have to agree with Sevumar though, that his seeming hatred of his cousin seems more like the emotion of someone who was rejected. But to play along with your reasoning, what if he was a squire for his cousin and was sent away for reasons he couldn't possibly understand and has nursed a grudge over it all this time? Reasons could range from the need for secrecy as Lyanna's confinement grew closer to the personal safety of the squires.



I believe that Doran's assessment of Darkstar is due to a whole other kind of knowledge, but that would be seriously off topic crackpot ;)


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"I think you've proposed something feasible. that being said, everyone, quit referring to Ned's Dream. It was a fevered one induced by injury, sickness and milk of the poppy. I am sure a disjointed variation of memory and belief are interwoven in a dream state, much like a regular dream.

It was an old dream, i.e. one he had had before, and it is said twice at its beginning that things in the dream were as they had been in life. So, while it may not be literal, it is no hallucination without a foundation, either.

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I don't believe there are any examples of Kingsguard taking on a Squire.

Their duty is to the King, they forsake everything that could interfere with that duty.

I agree. As far as I know, there are no examples of a KG with a squire. On the other hand, Dorkstar is the type of guy to bear a grudge for Arthur becoming KG and thus burying the option to squire for him, anyway.

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I agree. As far as I know, there are no examples of a KG with a squire. On the other hand, Dorkstar is the type of guy to bear a grudge for Arthur becoming KG and thus burying the option to squire for him, anyway.

The King Slayer has like a score of squires. They fight for the honor of holding his cock when he takes a piss. He even tells one of his squires that he got his bruises while having a romp with one of the Hayford girls, which struck me as odd. He was more willing to be seen as an oath breaker than as a gimp.

Ser Baristan has no problem raising a crop of squires, granted he isn't one of the seven anymore, but whatevs.

Its a good theory and I think its possible, but I think he would have died if he were there. Squires are supposed to fight beside their masters.

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I don't believe there are any examples of Kingsguard taking on a Squire.

Their duty is to the King, they forsake everything that could interfere with that duty.

I thought I had covered that in my OP. Jamie takes Lewis Piper & Garret Paege as Squires while he is in the Riverlands.

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It seems extraordinarily naive for Ned to simply ask an 11-12 year old to swear a vow of secrecy, return him to his family and then hope that the big secret doesn't get out. Especially considering R + L = J is so hush hush that Ned can't even tell his own wife. Why wouldn't he try to keep Darkstar under his control, for example by taking him on as a squire?



But, having said that, there hasn't really been a good explanation for Doran's comment about Darkstar and this theory fits better than most!


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It seems extraordinarily naive for Ned to simply ask an 11-12 year old to swear a vow of secrecy, return him to his family and then hope that the big secret doesn't get out.

My god, Ned being naive about people and hesitant to kill children.

;) not buying the theory, but not ruling it out either. Would explain why GRRM felt the need to bring in this character.

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Such an arrogant person as Gerold (which I'm sure you're not :) ), would not like it to be constantly asked about your extremely more famous cousin (no matter how distant a cousin)?

I'm by no means an arrogant person, but *my* cousin is an one-hit-wonder local pop singer whose music I don't especially like, and I'm getting sick of people asking me about her. So... I kinda feel Dorkstar here.

I believe that Doran's assessment of Darkstar is due to a whole other kind of knowledge, but that would be seriously off topic crackpot ;)

You can't start like this and then stop. Do tell!

He also killed Aerys, Jaime isn't the best example of Kingsguard protocol.

And was told off for killing Aerys, to use a mild euphemism. No one seems to have any problem whatsoever with him taking squires, not even the Blackwoods and, since it's not specifically said that the KS isn't allowed to have squires, I see no reason to assume so.

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