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[Book spoilers] How dark will show Tyrion be portrayed?


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#1 Cyvasse Khal

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:13 AM

By the end of season 4 and onwards after that, the show will be covering a different Tyrion to what viewers of the show have seen so far. The Tysha revelation from Jaime, the dealing with Daddy issues even after he kills him, the long contemplations of what his place is in the world is with JonCon and Aegon and later on the ship to Mereen. Amongst his journey in Essos, Tyrion has had some dark and twisted thoughts including suicidal and some sick thoughts of what he wants to do to some people.

 

Will the show be ballsy and show that extent of darkness to his character in the upcoming seasons? Everyone loves quick-witted jester underdog Tyrion, so I could understand them not wanting to stray too far. I know Peter Dinklage could pull off Tyrion's state of mind through Essos though, so would love it if they did go full on emo with him.



#2 Queen of Whores

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:21 AM

There is absolutely no way they'll keep the rape scene with the sex slave, and I doubt they'll have him be so negative. Maybe some cynical comments here and there, but they'll probably have humorous undertones. I don't have much faith in a loyal adaptation for Tyrion on the show.

#3 BaleTheGuard

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:24 AM

In my mind, there is no possible way that they'll include either of the Tyrion rape scenes from ADWD, nor his comments about wishing to rape his sister. Similarly, I don't think the showrunners will include Dany's decision to allow the "questionable interrogation tactics" (torture) related to the hunt for information about the Sons of the Harpy.

 

Because D&D are just super in love with ratings, and would rather not have a mass exodus of Unsullied leaving the fandom because it's become "too dark".



#4 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:25 AM

I'm very interested to see where they go with Tyrion too, I think we will get a good a good idea with if they portray him murdering Shae or not, and what tack they take with Shae's character. We read a lot of people saying she deserved tio be killed that she was a scheming bitch a user, gold digger etc. But you don't often get people thinking about the other side of the Shae issue, she was a vulnerable sex worker, what the hell choice did she have once Tyrion was arrested and they came for her, refuse to testify against him and be tortured and ultimately killed? and Tywin, did she really have the power to refuse sex with him? 

Did people really expect this girl to be "in love" with Tyrion she had no obligation to fall for him, she was a paid employee, she owed him nothing. 

So if Show Tyrion kills her and shows zero remorse I think we have our answer, they will go dark with him, If he cries forgives her and walks away having only killed Tywin. Then no they won't be going dark with him. 



#5 BaleTheGuard

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:28 AM

I'm very interested to see where they go with Tyrion too, I think we will get a good a good idea with if they portray him murdering Shae or not, and what tack they take with Shae's character. We read a lot of people saying she deserved tio be killed that she was a scheming bitch a user, gold digger etc. But you don't often get people thinking about the other side of the Shae issue, she was a vulnerable sex worker, what the hell choice did she have once Tyrion was arrested and they came for her, refuse to testify against him and be tortured and ultimately killed? and Tywin, did she really have the power to refuse sex with him? 

Did people really expect this girl to be "in love" with Tyrion she had no obligation to fall for him, she was a paid employee, she owed him nothing. 

So if Show Tyrion kills her and shows zero remorse I think we have our answer, they will go dark with him, If he cries forgives her and walks away having only killed Tywin. Then no they won't be going dark with him. 

 

If they don't have Tyrion kill Shae, I may just stop watching the show all together. I'm serious. They've done enough bullshit alterations to Shae's character to make her more likeable for the Unsullied (hint: they still didn't work).



#6 R.O.Edwards

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:30 AM

Well this is emotional darkness in a character which is fairly new but they have never shied away from emotionally destroying the fans. Some of the videos of people watching the RW are hilarious. I hope they keep it as close to the books as possible otherwise Tyrion has no real character progression.



#7 Cyvasse Khal

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:38 AM

I fully expect Tyrion to kill Shae in the show. I actually think the reason they are building up Shae into this important likeable (not that I like either book or show version) character is for the shock value when she turns on him at the trial. I wouldn't stop watching if he didn't kill her, but I would definitely be disappointed, and would need to change my response to people who ask is the show similar to the books, which now is along the lines of "well there is a fair bit of omissions but they are covering the main plot points and characters pretty truly"



#8 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:47 AM

I don't really know why D& D have made Shae so "spunky" and Funny etc in the show? It does not make any sense. My guess being that whilst whores are ever present in the show and prostitution is accepted as just being a part of story, but that they are preliminary and one does not have to be faced with the reality of sex workers lives. Shae is as powerless as those sad looking girls who you see looking like shit on street corners. As vulnerable to abuse and murder as all those women who turn up dead in the woods. I don't think your average TV viewer wishes to think of whores like that but would rather imagine they are happy sex workers who really are rather fond of the Johns they entertain.

 

book Shae is far more ambiguous one never really knows if she is truly content and enjoys her work, or if she is playing at it as Tyrion so clearly wants the Girlfriend experience and lets face it life as the kept whore of the Hand of the King has got to be preferable to life as a scruffy camp follower which is where she was prior to his interest in her.

 

I guess I see things differently as I've known women IRL who have been prostitutes. Maybe the way most other readers see Shea is as this cold hearted user, But I see all those women who turn up dead in woodlands and who are trafficked at age 10 to a life of misery in some hell hole. I see Jayne Poole.



#9 Nictarion

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:52 AM

Because D&D are just super in love with ratings, and would rather not have a mass exodus of Unsullied leaving the fandom because it's become "too dark".

Is that really a concern anymore, after the RW and Theon's torture porn?

#10 Queen of Whores

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:53 AM

 
I guess I see things differently as I've known women IRL who have been prostitutes. Maybe the way most other readers see Shea is as this cold hearted user, But I see all those women who turn up dead in woodlands and who are trafficked at age 10 to a life of misery in some hell hole. I see Jayne Poole.


Yes, you're the only one who feels any sympathy towards her or understands the harsh realities of the sex trade -_-

Edited by Queen of Whores, 20 February 2014 - 06:55 AM.


#11 shearstone

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:56 AM

I fully expect Tyrion to kill Shae in the show. I actually think the reason they are building up Shae into this important likeable (not that I like either book or show version) character is for the shock value when she turns on him at the trial. I wouldn't stop watching if he didn't kill her, but I would definitely be disappointed, and would need to change my response to people who ask is the show similar to the books, which now is along the lines of "well there is a fair bit of omissions but they are covering the main plot points and characters pretty truly"

 

In the new trailer we see Shae in a bed and someone walks in as she looks up, read into that as you will. 



#12 Queen of Whores

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:00 AM

I think it's very likely Tyrion will kill Shae, the recent shot in the trailer fuelling this belief, but I'm more worried about how it will be done, under what circumstances, and how Tyrion will react. He needs to be in a rage, completely cold and full of hatred, no sympathy in him. He can't cry about it or show that he regrets it. Tyrion in the book never regrets killing her, and even goes so far as to call her a lying cunt, or something harsh along those lines, well into ADwD. Making him sad and mournful over it will be nearly as bad as him not even killing her in the first place.

Edited by Queen of Whores, 20 February 2014 - 07:01 AM.


#13 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:07 AM

Yes, you're the only one who feels any sympathy towards her or understands the harsh realities of the sex trade -_-

 It certainly feels that way when reading some of the comments on this forum regarding Shae. 



#14 Queen of Whores

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:10 AM

It certainly feels that way when reading some of the comments on this forum regarding Shae. 


Most of them are just the, uh... less enlightened... readership. The same people who think Catelyn is a cruel monster or Arianne is a slut. Best not take their views as the views of the majority.

#15 jet199

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:15 AM

I think that D&D are painting with broad strokes. They just can't do grey characters very well and have to make them lighter or darker (which is a shame because other TV shows have managed it). 

 

I think they have purposely built up Tyrion and Dany as goodies so that they can quickly them take them down in the audience's estimation as though their character development is some king of plot twist. They will then get a bigger reaction from the audience than if they did it gradually as GRRM does.



#16 Whatever

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:18 AM

I really, really hope he'll kill Shae. She is a lot more sympathetic than the books, and doing so will really give Tyrion the push he needs from 'absolute goodness' to 'grey'.
BTW, (spoiler S4 trailer)

Spoiler
so I'm hoping it will happen.



#17 Roberto

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:19 AM

I'm more interested in how Shae will be portraited.

She clearly betrays Tyrion on the books, mocking him during his trial and later sleeping with his father. If they keep Shae in a good light (as in, she was "forced" to betray him) will make Tyrion's murder look even worse than in the books, which will be an interesting deviation from the perfect Tyrion the show has been showing so far.



#18 SeventySeven

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:25 AM

Hard to tell cause he's basically the face of the show, and a much lighter character than in the books. The show does go dark, but I'm not so sure they're able or willing to pull off having Tyrion as the gray going to black character he's in the books. I still think the plot would mostly go as the books- he'll kill Shae and Tywin, but anything after that I'm unsure. Maybe they'll show him as a fallen hero afterwards.

 

 

I'm more interested in how Shae will be portraited.

She clearly betrays Tyrion on the books, mocking him during his trial and later sleeping with his father. If they keep Shae in a good light (as in, she was "forced" to betray him) will make Tyrion's murder look even worse than in the books, which will be an interesting deviation from the perfect Tyrion the show has been showing so far.

 

My guess based on nothing but guessing, is that they'll build up Tyrion's resentment paired with the fact everyone abandoned him and Jaime lied to him as well... It would escalate and culminate with killing Shae, much like in the books. I don't know if it would be worse, if they portray Tyrion as a man devastated by pain it might just come across the same.

 

But it's interesting either way, cause it's a hard one to guess.



#19 jet199

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:44 AM

I'm more interested in how Shae will be portraited.

She clearly betrays Tyrion on the books, mocking him during his trial and later sleeping with his father. If they keep Shae in a good light (as in, she was "forced" to betray him) will make Tyrion's murder look even worse than in the books, which will be an interesting deviation from the perfect Tyrion the show has been showing so far.

Shae does not mock him in the trial. She is suprised that people find what she says funny.

“With my mouth and … other parts, m’lord. All my parts. He used me every way there was, and … he used to make me tell him how big he was. My giant, I had to call him, my giant of Lannister.”

Oswald Kettleblack was the first to laugh. Boros and Meryn joined in, then Cersei, Ser Loras, and more lords and ladies than he could count. The sudden gale of mirth made the rafters ring and shook the Iron Throne. “It’s true,” Shae protested. “My giant of Lannister.” The laughter swelled twice as loud.

Show Shae could easily make the same mistake of quoting their lovey dovey talk in the trial, which is always hilarious when other people do it, and turn Tyrion into a laughing stock.



#20 The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:44 AM

But Tyrion IS a man devastated by pain, his whole family have abandoned him, no its worse they have turned on him, he has received little to no love his whole life, the way they all jumped straight to accusing him when Joffrey died must have been devastating, he's grown up knowing his father despises him, his sister is repulsed by him and unbeknown to him believes he will kill her and her children, and then the only member of the family who was ever kind to him admits to having done him a great wrong in lying about the only women who has ever loved him for him.  

He gets darker because of what he's feeling about himself & his family. He kills Shea without even thinking for one minute of she deserves it, if she had any actual power over appearing in that court room or what she said whilst there, she says Cersei forced her to speak out against him, well we all know that that is VERY plausible, just look at Cersei's track record. And as I've already mentioned do we really think she had any choice about ending up in Tywins bed? 

The point when he begins his descent is with her murder, there is a very clear progression to that point too. He is angry and hurt and years of baggage are spilling out into his mind, which continues to nag at him as we follow him across Essos. When we see him rape the sex slave in Volantis he's reached a complete low. One which he is beginning to climb out of once he has experienced slavery, and how those who are not in his privileged position are living completely at the whim of those in charge.

 

This is Tyrion's journey. I feel he has to be shown as getting dark in order for us to rejoice when he comes back, I'm not a huge Tyrion fan he is not a favourite of mine, but I do like him. I don't judge characters though. But I think D & D will be making a mistake if they don't show him unravelling.