Gneisenau Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Loras trained as a knight so he knows how to use lots of weapons and fight on horse and on foot, siegecraft, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyvasse Khal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Loras would win, not easily, but i think most likely 9 out of 10 times would come out on top. Loras has the edge in experience of age and in real battles. Jon did well against the Wildings sure, but they are not trained fighters nor can organise themselves like the Night's Watch can. Whereas at Dragonstone Loras by the sounds of it went through many soldiers that were in formation and had armour and better weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Smirking Revenge Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 He's nothing special, people tend to give him credit for Donal Noye's actions Bringing the Wildlings across the wall was a very smart move. I agreed with most of the decisions Jon made in his time as LC not to mention that I don't view his actions in holding the wall before Stannis showed up as something that can be easily dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsOfBrains Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Loras would win with one arm tied behind his back. Jon was able to hang with Mance Rayder for a minute so he can romp, but Loras is like the baddest knight out there. Dude single handedly took Dragonstone. Well not really, but he did kick a lot of ass from what we can tell. I guess we don't really know how bad off Loras is. At one point Grey Worm mentions that boiling oil as used in a siege blinds people. Its possible Loras is blind as well as disfigured and maimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agamemnon Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Look I love Jon as much as the next fan but he kind of sucks as a battle commander. His main achievement is telling men to drop rocks off the wall. He did set up Stan w/ the mountain tribes but that was more political skill than military. If he didnt get assassinated his next move would have been to march on an Uber defensible castle in the middle of a blizzard with a group of undisciplined and poorly armed and armored Wildlings to fight a force who, as far as he knows, just defeated a larger and stronger force that just tried to do the same thing.Doesnt sound like stategic brilliance to me. Also I think Jon would win because Southron knights are not all they're chalked up to be. Remember Bronn vs. Sir Egin? Jon would flip his crazy switch and start laying about with his next-to-magic sword and cut the flowery knight to ribbons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypnomagica Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Look I love Jon as much as the next fan but he kind of sucks as a battle commander. His main achievement is telling men to drop rocks off the wall. He did set up Stan w/ the mountain tribes but that was more political skill than military. If he didnt get assassinated his next move would have been to march on an Uber defensible castle in the middle of a blizzard with a group of undisciplined and poorly armed and armored Wildlings to fight a force who, as far as he knows, just defeated a larger and stronger force that just tried to do the same thing.Doesnt sound like stategic brilliance to me. Also I think Jon would win because Southron knights are not all they're chalked up to be. Remember Bronn vs. Sir Egin? Jon would flip his crazy switch and start laying about with his next-to-magic sword and cut the flowery knight to ribbons Well, in fairness, we never got to see what exactly Jon Snow would DO with this force. He is fully aware of just how defensible Winterfell is AND how undisciplined the wildlings are and as all evidence would suggest that he is not an idiot by any measure, I doubt he would have attempted to storm the gates.My guess is that Jon would be roughly as skilled as his brother in terms of battle tactics and command in the same situation. He might even be better having had to face more diverse situations and being older than Robb was when he first started his war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaDC Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Depends on how they meet: Tourney conditions(not life or death): Loras has tremendous success & experience fighting in tournees. Horse back: Loras, likely the best rider/lancer in Westeros. Even Jamie admits this. This would not even be close. On foot: Jon. He is a great swordsman which is Loras's weaker point. Jon also practiced more practical/battle focused training at the wall(tournee fighting different from practical fighting), and demonstrated freakish physical strength when enraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 On foot: Jon. He is a great swordsman which is Loras's weaker point. Jon also practiced more practical/battle focused training at the wall(tournee fighting different from practical fighting), and demonstrated freakish physical strength when enraged. I doubt that Loras's training is any less practical/battle focused then Jon's, as just because he fights in tournaments doesn't mean he isn't taught practical and battle focused training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypnomagica Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I doubt that Loras's training is any less practical/battle focused then Jon's, as just because he fights in tournaments doesn't mean he isn't taught practical and battle focused training. Indeed. I don't see Jon besting Loras in any form of one-on-one battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNR Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I would give Jon with Longclaw even odds. Jon's strength is not just extraordinary when he's in berserker mode. It's revealed subtly at other times, often missed by readers. For instance... Jon Snow grasped the spear that bore Garth Greyfeather's head and wrenched it violently from the ground. "Pull down the other two," he commanded, and four of the crows hurried to obey. Bowen Marsh's cheeks were red with cold. "We should never have sent out rangers." "This is not the time and place to pick at that wound. Not here, my lord. Not now." To the men struggling with the spears Snow said, "Take the heads and burn them. Leave nothing but bare bone." Here we see Jon accomplishing something alone that it takes two men to achieve, for both the other two cases. And they're "struggling." Also, Loras, accurately characterized by Jaime as overconfident, would not be expecting much competition. He certainly would not be expecting to have to deal with someone armed with a lighter Valyrian blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Depends on how they meet: Tourney conditions(not life or death): Loras has tremendous success & experience fighting in tournees. Horse back: Loras, likely the best rider/lancer in Westeros. Even Jamie admits this. This would not even be close. On foot: Jon. He is a great swordsman which is Loras's weaker point. Jon also practiced more practical/battle focused training at the wall(tournee fighting different from practical fighting), and demonstrated freakish physical strength when enraged. Loras has fought in battles against real soldiers, not savages with stone weapons and furs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Stark Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I'd say Loras would win if they are mounted but i think that if they are on foot and Jon has Longclaw he could probably win. Loras is an arrogant little shit and is a great jouster but as a swordsman he doesn't seem much. both Loras and Jon are overrated on this forum. I don't think Loras could win against Edddard with Ice. Eddard is actually the most underrated of all. People seem to think GRRM said he was about average while what he said was that he was a pretty competent swordsman. Also, OT with Jon VS Loras, i'm pretty sure that Jon is physically stronger, as for speed, i don't know, but Brienne isn't really fast and i don't remember Loras outspeeding her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Loras is an arrogant little shit and is a great jouster but as a swordsman he doesn't seem much. George has repeatedly listed Loras with the likes of Jaime, Arthur Dayne, Barristan, Sandor, Gregor, and Garlan as a swordsmen. Also how exactly is Loras an arrogant little shit any more then other noble characters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Depends on how they meet: Tourney conditions(not life or death): Loras has tremendous success & experience fighting in tournees. Horse back: Loras, likely the best rider/lancer in Westeros. Even Jamie admits this. This would not even be close. On foot: Jon. He is a great swordsman which is Loras's weaker point. Jon also practiced more practical/battle focused training at the wall(tournee fighting different from practical fighting), and demonstrated freakish physical strength when enraged. If it is a one-one Loras's tourney experience is very helpful. And if it is a large battle, again Loras fought at the Blackwater and did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I really don't know where the thought of Loras being a wimp came from. I blame it on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I really don't know where the thought of Loras being a wimp came from. I blame it on the show. Isn't Loras kinda on the short side ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypnomagica Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Isn't Loras kinda on the short side ? So is Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Isn't Loras kinda on the short side ?Yeah. And that's probably why he considers Garlan more formidable than he is. Worth noting that Loras had the upper hand against the 6'6" monster that is Brienne. Can Jon do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Isn't Loras kinda on the short side ? Well, Tyrion is a dwarf and he can cut through knights like no other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contemplative Brother Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I really don't know where the thought of Loras being a wimp came from. I blame it on the show. Yeah, the show for some reason decided to turn Loras into a walking stereotype of a gay man. I really don’t know why. Remember, book Loras is a pretty dangerous guy. He cut down a couple members of Renly’s Kingsguard in a rage after Renly was killed. On horseback, with either lances or swords, I think Loras wins ten out of ten times.On foot, if Jon has Longclaw, I think it’s more of a toss up. But I would probably give Loras the slight edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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