Sansa and Petyr

[Le Cygne]

Which is why I think we'll all be so horrified when we read about Sansa um... hooking up with Petyr. That would be controversial.

Alternatively, why we'll be so happy when that doesn't happen and she (or someone else) kills him.

Littlefinger wronged Sweetrobin, too, killed (or had someone kill) both of his parents, trying to kill him, would be interesting to see him play a role in taking down LIttlefinger, too.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Which is why I think we'll all be so horrified when we read about Sansa um... hooking up with Petyr. That would be controversial.

I don't think Alayne's in a position to hook up with her father. If that was supposed to happen, It made more sense to happen during their stay at the Eyrie. I think a point is made that Alayne's true identity is at stake in the Gates. I personally think the controversial bit involves Sansa either being complicit in Robin's demise, or either manipulating her way through Littlefinger and bringing him down in his own game. I think it might also involve Alayne claiming her Stark identity and getting the support of the Vale.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Alternatively, why we'll be so happy when that doesn't happen and she (or someone else) kills him.

Littlefinger wronged Sweetrobin, too, killed (or had someone kill) both of his parents, trying to kill him, would be interesting to see him play a role in taking down LIttlefinger, too.

Isn't Sansa conspiring with Petyr and Coleman to murder young Robert?

[Lost Melnibonean]

I don't think Alayne's in a position to hook up with her father. If that was supposed to happen, It made more sense to happen during their stay at the Eyrie. I think a point is made that Alayne's true identity is at stake in the Gates. I personally think the controversial bit involves Sansa either being complicit in Robin's demise, or either manipulating her way through Littlefinger and bringing him down in his own game. I think it might also involve Alayne claiming her Stark identity and getting the support of the Vale.

How would bringing down Petyr or rallying the Vale to retake the North be controversial? Readers would celebrate such happy endings.

[RavenKing23]

Isn't Sansa conspiring with Petyr and Coleman to murder young Robert?

No, Coleman actually is against Robert from taking anymore sweetsleep, which Sansa wanted to administer to get him safely down the mountain. Coleman and Sansa now are aware of the danger, and now that LF blutter out his plan in a drunken attempt to impress Sansa (best player in the game my ass) its quite possible she could use that angle to throwdown LF.

She still needs allies though and with most of the Vale in LF's pocket its still pretty bleak. Though Im liking the theory where Petyr's head decoeated Winterfell's walls

[Lost Melnibonean]

No, Coleman actually is against Robert from taking anymore sweetsleep, which Sansa wanted to administer to get him safely down the mountain. Coleman and Sansa now are aware of the danger, and now that LF blutter out his plan in a drunken attempt to impress Sansa (best player in the game my ass) its quite possible she could use that angle to throwdown LF.

She still needs allies though and with most of the Vale in LF's pocket its still pretty bleak. Though Im liking the theory where Petyr's head decoeated Winterfell's walls

Alayne understood all that well enough, but it meant that the burden of getting Sweetrobin safely down the mountain fell on her. "Give his lordship a cup of sweetmilk," she told the maester. "That will stop him from shaking on the journey down."

"He had a cup not three days past," Colemon objected.

"And wanted another last night, which you refused him."

"It was too soon. My lady, you do not understand. As I've told the Lord Protector, a pinch of sweetsleep will prevent the shaking, but it does not leave the flesh, and in time . . ."

"Time will not matter if his lordship has a shaking fit and falls off the mountain. If my father were here, I know he would tell you to keep Lord Robert calm at all costs."

"I try, my lady, yet his fits grow ever more violent, and his blood is so thin I dare not leech him any more. Sweetsleep . . . you are certain he was not bleeding from the nose?"

"He was sniffling," Alayne admitted, "but I saw no blood."

"I must speak to the Lord Protector. This feast . . . is that wise, I wonder, after the strain of the descent?"

"It will not be a large feast," she assured him. "No more than forty guests. Lord Nestor and his household, the Knight of the Gate, a few lesser lords and their retainers . . ."

"Lord Robert mislikes strangers, you know that, and there will be drinking, noise . . . music. Music frightens him."

"Music soothes him," she corrected, "the high harp especially. It's singing he can't abide, since Marillion killed his mother." Alayne had told the lie so many times that she remembered it that way more oft than not; the other seemed no more than a bad dream that sometimes troubled her sleep. "Lord Nestor will have no singers at the feast, only flutes and fiddles for the dancing." What would she do when the music began to play? It was a vexing question, to which her heart and head gave different answers. Sansa loved to dance, but Alayne . . . "Just give him a cup of the sweetmilk before we go, and another at the feast, and there should be no trouble."

"Very well." They paused at the foot of the stairs. "But this must be the last. For half a year, or longer."

"You had best take that up with the Lord Protector." She pushed through the door and crossed the yard. Colemon only wanted the best for his charge, Alayne knew, but what was best for Robert the boy and what was best for Lord Arryn were not always the same. Petyr had said as much, and it was true. Maester Colemon cares only for the boy, though. Father and I have larger concerns.

Sansa knows what the drug is likely to do to the boy. But she's willing to to conspire with Petyr to sacrifice her cousin for her own good. That's negligent homicide if Robert dies from the drug. And the maester may be resisting but he's just as complicit in the conspiracy.

[Colonel Green]

Sansa knows what the drug is likely to do to the boy. But she's willing to to conspire with Petyr to sacrifice her cousin for her own good. That's negligent homicide if Robert dies from the drug. And the maester may be resisting but he's just as complicit in the conspiracy.

Er, no, Colemon isn't "conspiring" with anyone. He's administering medicine in good faith. Sansa isn't trying to murder him either, she's directing his medication with an eye to "Lord Arryn" rather than "Robert", which shows burgeoning understanding of politics, though less concern for the individual; but she does not consider this a threat to his life.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Er, no, Colemon isn't "conspiring" with anyone. He's administering medicine in good faith. Sansa isn't trying to murder him either, she's directing his medication with an eye to "Lord Arryn" rather than "Robert", which shows burgeoning understanding of politics, though less concern for the individual; but she does not consider this a threat to his life.

Petyr could be trying to murder him, but I don't really know. I am quite sure Petyr knows that too much of the drug will kill Robert. So does Colemon. If Petyr directs Colemon to overdose (even over an extended period) and the result is Robert's death, even if Colemon and possibly Petyr don't want Robert to die that is the very definition of negligent homicide. The only thing that might save Sansa from such guilt would be lack of proof that she knows it could kill Robert. She knows it could hurt him, significantly. Her crime would clearly be manslaughter, but I would suggest there is sufficient forseeability that Sansa's crime is really negligent homicide too.

[Le Cygne]

Sansa (who keep in mind, is playing Alayne here, she's trying to be her in her thoughts, too, not always successful, but the way things are worded at times has to be seen with this in mind) isn't counting Robert out, but Littlefinger is:

"Lemons? Did you find some lemons?" She had promised Sweetrobin lemon cake, and for lemon cake you needed lemons...

"So tell me, sweetling - why is Harry the Heir?"

Her eyes widened. "He is not Lady Waynwood's heir. He's Robert's heir. If Robert were to die..."

Petyr arched an eyebrow. "When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon..."

[Colonel Green]

Petyr could be trying to murder him, but I don't really know. I am quite sure Petyr knows that too much of the drug will kill Robert. So does Colemon. If Petyr directs Colemon to overdose (even over an extended period) and the result is Robert's death, even if Colemon and possibly Petyr don't want Robert to die that is the very definition of negligent homicide.

Littlefinger is definitely trying to kill him (over the long term). Colemon is not, and he's not "overdosing" him; he's administering a larger dose at one point than he would prefer, with the proviso that there be no further doses for a while.

[FreeParking]

You still haven't addressed what Littlefinger did to Jeyne Poole. You're still talking about Sansa.

But, if I understand this correctly, Sansa thinks of her best friend twice, only twice, in all those chapters since the coup. She has a lot of down time to consider everything and Jeyne almost never comes up in her thoughts. She thinks about Dontos than Jeyne.

[Le Cygne]

I counted five times yesterday, not going to go back again. Sansa thinks well of Jeyne and misses her, that was the common thing. And even if she doesn't think of her at all, that has absolutely nothing to do with what Littlefinger is doing to Jeyne. This is what he does to a young woman of no special interest to him - and this is also what he does to someone who meant something to Sansa. As we've seen before, notably, Ned. So the reader sees what Littlefinger does to someone like Jeyne. What stops him from doing this to Sansa, or perhaps someone else who means something to her? This tells us how Sansa can play Littlefinger. What he said to her, she does to him: "Everyone wants something, Alayne. And when you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him."

[Grail King]

I don't think Alayne's in a position to hook up with her father. If that was supposed to happen, It made more sense to happen during their stay at the Eyrie. I think a point is made that Alayne's true identity is at stake in the Gates. I personally think the controversial bit involves Sansa either being complicit in Robin's demise, or either manipulating her way through Littlefinger and bringing him down in his own game. I think it might also involve Alayne claiming her Stark identity and getting the support of the Vale.

This is what I think the "somewhat controversial in the fandom " is; she's going to out herself either to Royce or someone she may misjudge as a ally .

[Grail King]

But, if I understand this correctly, Sansa thinks of her best friend twice, only twice, in all those chapters since the coup. She has a lot of down time to consider everything and Jeyne almost never comes up in her thoughts. She thinks about Dontos than Jeyne.

She did tell us it hurts to much to think what has happen to her friend, her family, and household staff.

[FreeParking]

I counted five times yesterday, not going to go back again. Sansa thinks well of Jeyne and misses her, that was the common thing. And even if she doesn't think of her at all, that has absolutely nothing to do with what Littlefinger is doing to Jeyne. This is what he does to a young woman of no special interest to him - and this is also what he does to someone who meant something to Sansa. As we've seen before, notably, Ned.

Argh! And nobody posts where these are! All I have are the paper books. Tell me what chapters they are in! I can't Crtl-F and find them.

[Colonel Green]

But, if I understand this correctly, Sansa thinks of her best friend twice, only twice, in all those chapters since the coup. She has a lot of down time to consider everything and Jeyne almost never comes up in her thoughts. She thinks about Dontos than Jeyne.

As previously explained, she tries to avoid thinking about that as part of her act at court, and once she gets to the Eyrie she tries to be "Alayne" all the time. She thinks about Dontos because he died in front of her very recently and his death relates to Littlefinger (which Jeyne's situation doesn't, as far as she knows).

[Starkfaithful85]

I hope Sansa kills him. Does she know about the part he played in her fathers death... and really, the destruction of her family?

no but if it is every brought back up LF can say that she did nearly the same thing...she betrayed someone who trusted her,ned, for her own desires, to be a lannister queen

[Alayne's Shadow.]

How would bringing down Petyr or rallying the Vale to retake the North be controversial? Readers would celebrate such happy endings.

If she's part of the plot to kill Robin for personal gain, I'd consider it controversial.

no but if it is every brought back up LF can say that she did nearly the same thing...she betrayed someone who trusted her,ned, for her own desires, to be a lannister queen

This again? Sansa did not betrayed Ned. Ned made no moves in regards to explain their political position to Sansa, and Sansa only "poured her heart out" to the Queen. She disobeyed her father, she did not betrayed him.

[Le Cygne]

A Baratheon queen. A match originally made by her father. Who didn't get her to safety before he accused the queen of treason.

[FreeParking]

As previously explained, she tries to avoid thinking about that as part of her act at court, and once she gets to the Eyrie she tries to be "Alayne" all the time. She thinks about Dontos because he died in front of her very recently and his death relates to Littlefinger (which Jeyne's situation doesn't, as far as she knows).

Just like she thinks about Jon Snow only when it effects her, pretending to be a bastard?