Sansa and Petyr

[Lost Melnibonean]

Exhibit F

He brushed back a strand of her hair. "You are old enough to know that your mother and I were more than friends. There was a time when Cat was all I wanted in this world. I dared to dream of the life we might make and the children she would give me . . . but she was a daughter of Riverrun, and Hoster Tully. Family, Duty, Honor, Sansa. Family, Duty, Honor meant I could never have her hand. But she gave me something finer, a gift a woman can give but once. How could I turn my back upon her daughter? In a better world, you might have been mine, not Eddard Stark's. My loyal loving daughter . . . Put Joffrey from your mind, sweetling. Dontos, Tyrion, all of them. They will never trouble you again. You are safe now, that's all that matters. You are safe with me, and sailing home." Sansa V, Storm

I'm not so sure Petyr will give up Sansa...

[Lost Melnibonean]

Her maid rolled herself more tightly in her blanket as the snow began to drift in the window. Sansa eased open the door, and made her way down the winding stair. When she opened the door to the garden, it was so lovely that she held her breath, unwilling to disturb such perfect beauty. The snow drifted down and down, all in ghostly silence, and lay thick and unbroken on the ground. All color had fled the world outside. It was a place of whites and blacks and greys. White towers and white snow and white statues, black shadows and black trees, the dark grey sky above. A pure world, Sansa thought. I do not belong here.

Sansa VII, Storm

His Grace is hunting across the Blackwater, Ned said, wondering how a man could live his whole life a few days ride from the Red Keep and still have no notion what his king looked like. Ned was clad in a white linen doublet with the direwolf of Stark on the breast; his black wool cloak was fastened at the collar by his silver hand of office. Black and white and grey, all the shades of truth. I am Lord Eddard Stark, the Kings Hand. Tell me who you are and what you know of these raiders.

Eddard XI, Game

Why does Sansa believe she does not believe in a pure world of truth? Is it simply because she is living as Alayne Stone?

Just before she steps into that pure world where she doesn't feel that she belongs she dreams of being home in Winterfell. As she gazes out on that pure world where she doesn't feel that she belongs she remembers leaving Winterfell. After she steps into that pure world where she doesn't feel that she belongs she builds a model of Winterfell with the snowfall.

She notes that the snow tastes of Winterfell and innocence. Is that why she doesn't belong? She has simply lost her innocence? If so, what are the implications?

She builds the model of Winterfell next to the broken half-burried staute of Alyssa Arryn, clearly an allusion to Catelyn. Why the allusion? Was the "half-burried" description just a foreshadowing of UnCat?

I don't buy the scene as a fulfillment of the woods witch's maid slaying the savage giant prophecy. Is the scene a foreshadowing of Lady Sansa rebuilding Winterfell? But since the savage giant smashes it does that mean Petyr will prevent her, perhaps not through force or coercion, from rebuilding Winterfell?Just before Petyr appears in the scene we get this imagery...

Dawn stole into her garden like a thief. The grey of the sky grew lighter still, and the trees and shrubs turned a dark green beneath their stoles of snow.

Sansa VII, Storm

A clear allusion to Petyr...

The device painted on the shield was one Sansa did not know; a grey stone head with fiery eyes, upon a light green field. "My grandfather's shield," Petyr explained when he saw her gazing at it.

Sansa VI, Storm

And there's this...

The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me.

Sansa VII, Storm

When the raven came, bearing a letter marked with Father's own seal and written in Sansa's hand, the cruel truth seemed no less incredible. Bran would never forget the look on Robb's face as he stared at their sister's words. "She says Father conspired at treason with the king's brothers," he read. "King Robert is dead, and Mother and I are summoned to the Red Keep to swear fealty to Joffrey. She says we must be loyal, and when she marries Joffrey she will plead with him to spare our lord father's life." His fingers closed into a fist, crushing Sansa's letter between them. "And she says nothing of Arya, nothing, not so much as a word. Damn her! What's wrong with the girl?"

Bran felt all cold inside. "She lost her wolf," he said, weakly, remembering the day when four of his father's guardsmen had returned from the south with Lady's bones.

Bran VI, Game

Does this mean that Bloodraven can't guide or protect Sansa as hecseems to be doing with Jon and Bran and Arya, and maybe Rickon?

[Lost Melnibonean]

Exhibit G

And then there's the rather perverted snow castle scene which culminates in a kiss, not an unkiss but kiss that tastes of mint to which Sansa yields for half a heartbeat...

Sansa tried to step back, but he pulled her into his arms and suddenly he was kissing her. Feebly, she tried to squirm, but only succeeded in pressing herself more tightly against him. His mouth was on hers, swallowing her words. He tasted of mint. For half a heartbeat she yielded to his kiss . . . before she turned her face away and wrenched free. "What are you doing?" Sansa VII, Storm

[Red Wedding Cake]

Sansa sees Baelish as a father figure. She'll probably divulge his secret plans to an unsuspecting enemy and Baelish will lose his head.

:box:

[The Ned's Little Girl]

She builds the model of Winterfell next to the broken half-burried staute of Alyssa Arryn, clearly an allusion to Catelyn. Why the allusion? Was the "half-burried" description just a foreshadowing of UnCat?

Would you mind explaining more? How is this clearly an allusion to Catelyn Tully Stark? Is there any connection between her and Alyssa Arryn and if so, what is it?

[Robb_Warged]

I HATE PETYR'S SCENES WITH SANSA!

It was emotionally draining reading their stuff in AFFC. Really hoping the two of them have little to zero moments alone in TWOW

If Petyr forces himself on Sansa, or if Sansa gives Petyr what he wants (her body) even if it's for a good reason (like to control him for example) I will really really really really be frustrated. He hurt her family so much

I mean if it's her choice to be with him, then that's her choice. After what Petyr's actions caused her family though, it would be difficult for me to like Sansa if she decides to be sincere friends/lovers with Petyr

"Doesn't that deserve more than a kiss?" or whatever the heck he says to her in her last AFFC chapter had me angrier than anything else in the series. Even angrier than Robb's death

Sansa sees Baelish as a father figure. She'll probably divulge his secret plans to an unsuspecting enemy and Baelish will lose his head.

:box:

LOL

I hardly doubt this. Sansa will break free from his clutches. The pomegranate scene between Sansa and Petyr says it all. Plus Little Finger's endgame is most likely getting beheaded and his head spiked on the walls of winterfell. As a compensation for being part of Ned's death ^_^

I hope your right.

[LongRider]

For the moment, Sansa is 'Alayne' a bastard and so 'not pure' like a true born. Plus, she's witnessed the murder of her Aunt and knows that Marrillion was falsely accused and falsely imprisoned unto his death. Plus, posing as Alayne is a lie, and LF killed before her the man she saved; Ser Dontos.

Right now she may be in more peril that when in the Red Keep. If discovered as Sansa she could be returned to KL to face trail and Cersei. If she stays with LF he continually pressures her for her affections (and more).

But allies may be beginning to a appear; Mya Stone is no dummie, and neither is Randa Royce. The Lords of the Vale don't trust LF and so things could change very quickly. Until they do tho', it's no wonder Sansa does not feel welcome and belonging.

[Le Cygne]

True. She's in grave peril with Littlefinger, that's for sure... And that "question" at the end of the chapter was him saying he wants more sexually, too... The only good thing is, they aren't isolated up in the Eyrie anymore, also good for Sweetrobin.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Would you mind explaining more? How is this clearly an allusion to Catelyn Tully Stark? Is there any connection between her and Alyssa Arryn and if so, what is it?

I think it's pretty obvious in the text once it's pointed out...

Alyssa Arryn had seen her husband, her brothers, and all her children slain, and yet in life she had never shed a tear. So in death, the gods had decreed that she would know no rest until her weeping watered the black earth of the Vale, where the men she had loved were buried. Alyssa had been dead six thousand years now, and still no drop of the torrent had ever reached the valley floor far below. Catelyn wondered how large a waterfall her own tears would make when she died.

Catelyn VII, Game

It's a foreshadowing of UnCat.

[Lord Tony of House Stark]

kind of want to see LF with Sansa not gonna lie. I think LF truly loved Cat and Sansa is like his second chance. I think he sees her as a different person not Cat 2.0 and i think he loves Sansa in a different way than he loved Cat. He has won in everything else in his life, call me an optimist, but i want to see him see fulfillment in his lives work by finally finding love.

I doubt that George would rap it up so neatly and that LF's endgame will be ambiguous as i have seen him throughout the series

[Le Cygne]

Barf. That's not love. He is responsible for the death of Catelyn's husband and Sansa's father, someone they loved very much. He's responsible for most of the hell they've gone through.

And he doesn't even see Sansa as a person at all. He doesn't treat her with the slightest bit of consideration or respect, it's all about him and what he wants. That's the way the story is written.

[Pod The Impaler]

I HATE PETYR'S SCENES WITH SANSA!

It was emotionally draining reading their stuff in AFFC. Really hoping the two of them have little to zero moments alone in TWOW

If Petyr forces himself on Sansa, or if Sansa gives Petyr what he wants (her body) even if it's for a good reason (like to control him for example) I will really really really really be frustrated. He hurt her family so much

I mean if it's her choice to be with him, then that's her choice. After what Petyr's actions caused her family though, it would be difficult for me to like Sansa if she decides to be sincere friends/lovers with Petyr

"Doesn't that deserve more than a kiss?" or whatever the heck he says to her in her last AFFC chapter had me angrier than anything else in the series. Even angrier than Robb's death

If it happens, it is meant to bewilder and anger readers, do not doubt it. Some people make bad choices, and in ASOIAF, it seems to be an epidemic.

But it's OK, you do not have to say "if that's her choice, that's her choice" and respect it. Sansa is a fictional character, not a real person, so feel free to boo and hiss and hate her for it.

Still better than Joffrey or Daario.

[OldGimletEye]

Still better than Joffrey or Daario.

Even Daario is better than LF. Daario might be a scoundrel, but at least he is honest about what he is. LF is the biggest fake funker around.

[Dya of Oldstones]

Even Daario is better than LF. Daario might be a scoundrel, but at least he is honest about what he is. LF is biggest fake funker around.

:agree:

Even Joffrey is debatable. Sure the kid's a psycho but at least there were a few people who kept a leash on him, and it was most likely Littlefinger who goaded him into his worst behavior in the first place; like beheading Ned. Let's not forget LF was also responsible for getting her family into the hot mess of KL to begin with.

Let's hope she finds some good friends in the Vale now that she's not so isolated anymore.

[RavenKing23]

kind of want to see LF with Sansa not gonna lie. I think LF truly loved Cat and Sansa is like his second chance. I think he sees her as a different person not Cat 2.0 and i think he loves Sansa in a different way than he loved Cat. He has won in everything else in his life, call me an optimist, but i want to see him see fulfillment in his lives work by finally finding love.

I doubt that George would rap it up so neatly and that LF's endgame will be ambiguous as i have seen him throughout the series

So you think that LF sincerely loved Cat, and so his perfect second chance is to plow her daughter? That's kinda fucked up man, and thats excluding all the monsterous shit he has done

[Le Cygne]

I wonder sometimes if people think the show and books are the same, or something. There's a lot that gets lost in the translation (not that that's even what they are doing, it's more like an alternate universe).

[Karmarni]

I do not think Littlefinger loved Catelyn. He loved the idea of Catelyn. He loved her IMAGE (how she looks) so much that when he had his beer goggles on he thought Lysa was Catelyn and for the rest of his life he BRAGGED about bagging Catelyn Stark for her first time.

None of that is love.

Now “he has won in everything” he deserves a younger IMAGE of Catelyn as a substitute? That’s what Littlefinger sees in Sansa, just an image of her mother. He recognizes none of Sansa wishes and desires; in fact, he admits to lying when he didn't take her home. And he's lying to her about what he wants too.

Littlefinger will eventually lose something. His downfall is palpable. How is the only question I have. So Littlefinger will never “win everything” – most especially not Sansa who is ultimately nothing more to him than a prize possession to be bartered in exchange for more power and lands.

That’s not love either.

[Grail King]

Now, now, it wasn't just any woman that raised him, it was Lysa Tully who clearly has some mental issues.

Saying that I do think Stannis and Dragonstone would have been the best option as he'd also have Shireen to keep him company, he'd get to know Davos which is a good thing for any person and two maesters would have been on hand to look after him. That was before the war though and with how things have changed his best hope for a parent is Sansa (which is ironic as I think she'll end up killing him, but that's another matter)

only way I see this happening is SR does something horrible that brings a bad flashback to Sansa, that reminds her of Joffery.

[juanml82]

Barf. That's not love. He is responsible for the death of Catelyn's husband and Sansa's father, someone they loved very much. He's responsible for most of the hell they've gone through.

And he doesn't even see Sansa as a person at all. He doesn't treat her with the slightest bit of consideration or respect, it's all about him and what he wants. That's the way the story is written.

And how does being behind Ned's death precludes him from loving Catelyn? Lots of people kill out of jealousy.

kind of want to see LF with Sansa not gonna lie. I think LF truly loved Cat and Sansa is like his second chance. I think he sees her as a different person not Cat 2.0 and i think he loves Sansa in a different way than he loved Cat. He has won in everything else in his life, call me an optimist, but i want to see him see fulfillment in his lives work by finally finding love.

I doubt that George would rap it up so neatly and that LF's endgame will be ambiguous as i have seen him throughout the series

I think he loved Cat. And I think he's infatuated by Sansa, but I don't think he's in love with her. Most likely, he sees her as a way to get back at the Tullys - the icing on the cake, if you will.

I do not think Littlefinger loved Catelyn. He loved the idea of Catelyn. He loved her IMAGE (how she looks) so much that when he had his beer goggles on he thought Lysa was Catelyn and for the rest of his life he BRAGGED about bagging Catelyn Stark for her first time.

None of that is love.

Now “he has won in everything” he deserves a younger IMAGE of Catelyn as a substitute? That’s what Littlefinger sees in Sansa, just an image of her mother. He recognizes none of Sansa wishes and desires; in fact, he admits to lying when he didn't take her home. And he's lying to her about what he wants too.

Littlefinger will eventually lose something. His downfall is palpable. How is the only question I have. So Littlefinger will never “win everything” – most especially not Sansa who is ultimately nothing more to him than a prize possession to be bartered in exchange for more power and lands.

That’s not love either.

The guy challenged Brandon Stark to a duel and forfeited his relationship with his foster father, who was one of the most powerful men in Westeros, for her. That is love. Villains are capable of that.

[Mithras]

I don't think Sansa will have anything to do in North within the timespan of the series. If she ever comes North during the series, I think it will be almost at the end of ADoS. Rebuilding Winterfell is Bran's task. Fighting the Others is Jon's task. Being the Stark in Winterfell is Rickon's task. I don't think Sansa has a future in the Vale either. I think she will slay LF while he was trying to rape her and then she will flee the Vale, hoping that the hedge knights will take her to North. But they will betray her to Cersei and take her to KL.