Robb and Jon if they had been together?

[the conquoring bastard25]

that's a great point about not getting too high and mighty.

Also about if Ghost had been there that might have been something that the fighters could hold onto. That even though their king isn't there his brother with his wolf still hunts with them. Jon knowing Robb the way that he does would maybe have a better idea about what Robb meant about hold Riverrun. He would have possibly would have argued against Edmure meeting Tywin in the field allowing KL to be smashed and stannis to ascend to throne. Allowing the brothers to either figure out if they should bend the knee or keep fighting. Then he also could have gone to Renly and his court and acted as his envoy with Stannis and Renly. Same situation applies with Renly that implies with Greyjoy about making Jon a hostage. Could he have talked some sense into the brothers? Could he have gotten Highgarden to reconsider their alliance once Renly was dead. The legitimized bastard from a line of kings and highlords that stretches back 8,000 years where the Tyrells are from a line of stewards. With Renly dead and Stannis on his way to ascend the throne that might be a very favorable match. That would definetly have been a stroke a good luck for the young wolfs cause. Yet I don't think that Mace Tyrell would have married the Rose Slut to a bastard maybe on of the cousins and with that alliance if makes the Frey match look like shit. So Robb would be changing one slightly favorable match for a much more prestigious match with more swords and wealth that the north greatly needs.

[The Fresh PtwP]

He'd probably only be part of Robb's guard and nothing more.

Thank you! based on what credentials do people think Jon would be leading infantry and the like.

[Lee-Sensei]

If Jon had gone to the Greyjoys, Jon isn't Theon whom is still by Robb's side and can still be killed if need be. So like I said Jon would make a terrible hostage. HE's related to the King but as he's a bastard he's not in he line to inherit. If he had given the ships to Robb he also could have been given a share a large and more important realm say Lannisport. It's got a large port and sits on the coast which would be help him rule as the IB like to be close to the coast. Like Cat said send someone that can speak with his words as Jon is Robb's brother and they grew up they know each other and their nature. What his king would find acceptable and what terms he would never accept or find too much.

I'd like to think Robb's not that much of a jerk, and sending a bastard to treat with a Lord/King would be seen as disrespectful. Just like when Walder Frey sent one of his bastards to treat with Robb.

[the conquoring bastard25]

The fact that he was trained by Ned Stark. He is the son of winterfell. He is the kings trusted advisor and they learned war craft and such at Ned Stark's knee. Need I go on. What other credentials does he need? The king trust him that's all his bannerman need know. SO long as Jon proves himself more than capable of leading men and winning that would secure his place.

Though he's a bastard he's still the kings bastard brother and his father was an honorable man. Robb would put his trust in Jon just for these facts alone not to mention that he values Jon's opinion. It's jon's council about the direwolves that get's Ned to relent and let them have them. Robb echos what jon is saying after he speaks.

[Lee-Sensei]

He might be able to convince Robb to keep Theon hostage.

[GallowsKnight]

The fact that he was trained by Ned Stark. He is the son of winterfell. He is the kings trusted advisor and they learned war craft and such at Ned Stark's knee. Need I go on. What other credentials does he need?

If only on top of this he had a giant living and breathing symbol of his father's house, you know like Robb had in Greywind.

Oh wait.

[the conquoring bastard25]

Walder Frey isn't a king and it was meant as a slight. If he sends Jon and other's of high birth as a trail that only gives more weight to Jon's mission but still shows that he's trusting enough to send his blood to teat with Greyjoy. Besides Cat, Edmure and The blackfish whom Robb needs because he knows the trident and it's territories well plus he's an able soldier and knows the Trident bannerman as he grew up with most of them. Edmure as the Trident overlord can't go as he's the one that the trident lords are looking to for instructions and Cat is a woman and Greyjoy doesn't strike me as the type of man that values to the opinons of women. Scratch Asha because she was Balon's only choice he had no way of knowing that his son would ever be returned to him. He was under the mind that Theon would spend the rest of his days in the greenlands hostage to WF and the Iron Throne. SO where is the slight? Robb would be using the best tool at his disposal without trying to cause offense but to lend credence and weight to the alliance that he was trying to get underway.

IF he was able to get Robb not to send Theon then that stands to reason that he might not have lost the North. Which means that Roose would have no reason to loose faith in his overlord and he would stay true. Ramasay would end his days a head on a spike, when Robb returns north. The Isles never get the chance go rebel and take the north and then WF is never sacked.

[Minsc]

Or if he had been at Riverrun he would have been the one to guard Jamie Lannister and given the history between Cat and Jon there is no way he lets her in the see the Kingslayer. Daughter of Riverrun or no she's still one of he kings subjects. .

I doubt she would need his permission, seeing how she would pretty much out rank him especially at Riverrun.

which would make Walder Frey want to marry his daughter to the bastard son of the Targ prince. Only for Jon to end up eclipsing his true born brother the Young Wolf and I've always been of the mind that if Jon has a Targ secret name it would be Daeron III of his name.

I would love to know how the Young wolf would take that bit of news.

Oh by the way Robb you maybe King in the North but I'm heir to the entire realm. Remember when you sprained the royal wrist with that trick with the sword?

Same goes for Cat's reaction to that bit of news. Bend down and kiss the royal foot and for the love I bear your son I wont have your head. Now it seems as if you do need a bit of my absolution after all.

And then Jon is stabbed to death by Greatjon, Tytos Blackwood, Rickard Karstark, Jonos Bracken, etc the same as how his stint as LC.

Honestly, I cannot imagine Jon's presence bringing about any major change besides how the Wall might be a little less secure.

[The Fresh PtwP]

The fact that he was trained by Ned Stark. He is the son of winterfell. He is the kings trusted advisor and they learned war craft and such at Ned Stark's knee. Need I go on. What other credentials does he need? The king trust him that's all his bannerman need know. SO long as Jon proves himself more than capable of leading men and winning that would secure his place.

Though he's a bastard he's still the kings bastard brother and his father was an honorable man. Robb would put his trust in Jon just for these facts alone not to mention that he values Jon's opinion. It's jon's council about the direwolves that get's Ned to relent and let them have them. Robb echos what jon is saying after he speaks.

You think any of Robb's levies are going to take orders from a bastard? They barely listened to Robb half the time. Karstark, Bolton, Umber all proud houses who wouldn't listen to an upjumped greenboy bastard.

[Lee-Sensei]

Walder Frey isn't a king and it was meant as a slight. If he sends Jon and other's of high birth as a trail that only gives more weight to Jon's mission but still shows that he's trusting enough to send his blood to teat with Greyjoy. Besides Cat, Edmure and The blackfish whom Robb needs because he knows the trident and it's territories well plus he's an able soldier and knows the Trident bannerman as he grew up with most of them. Edmure as the Trident overlord can't go as he's the one that the trident lords are looking to for instructions and Cat is a woman and Greyjoy doesn't strike me as the type of man that values to the opinons of women. Scratch Asha because she was Balon's only choice he had no way of knowing that his son would ever be returned to him. He was under the mind that Theon would spend the rest of his days in the greenlands hostage to WF and the Iron Throne. SO where is the slight? Robb would be using the best tool at his disposal without trying to cause offense but to lend credence and weight to the alliance that he was trying to get underway.

IF he was able to get Robb not to send Theon then that stands to reason that he might not have lost the North. Which means that Roose would have no reason to loose faith in his overlord and he would stay true. Ramasay would end his days a head on a spike, when Robb returns north. The Isles never get the chance go rebel and take the north and then WF is never sacked.

The slight is in sending a bastard to treat with a King or a Lord. It's considered disrespectful in the world of ASOIAF.

That's not necessarily true. The Tyrells will still join the Lannisters in this case and Stannis will still lose the Battle of the Blackwater.Roose may still betray Robb.

[the conquoring bastard25]

If it's disrespectful then why was if okay to send littlefinger to teat with the Tyrells? He's a nobody. He's one step above being born with dirt under his nails. Jon atleast has the blood if not the name of a fine and powerful family behind him. Not to mention he has Ghost at his side to keep a civil tongue in Greyjoy's head if not in his actions. So he might not like having to deal with a bastard he will have no choice but to deal with it. Then also what about Bloodraven, before his father legitimized him he was around his royal brother after he was legitimized he proved himself invaluable. He was the one who mostly stopped the Blackfyre rebellion 2 of them. He slew 3 of his relatives and he comes from a respected family in the Trident. The had command of the raven's teeth. Which I could make an argument that the Raven Teeth sounds like something that was a traditional station for house Blackraven. In the princess and the queen Red Robb Rivers had charge of a group of archers called the teeth. He was a bastard but the finest archer in the seven kingdoms at the time and men had no problem following him and he doesn't have a great big wolf that snarls even it's master is even slightly unhappy.

The lords see Robb as a young boy yes, but the greatjon is Robb's feirest supporter after Grey wind eats two of his fingers. So I would like to know who these men will react when Jon is giving orders and they think about doing something or not listening. Then they turn and meet silent death on 4 legs standing behind them?

The comment about Jon and kiss the royal boot was a joke because I can't stand Cat and if she had been alive to receive the news that Jon was really heir to the entire realm I can imagine the bitch swallowing her own tongue and turning a shade of red that even Bowen Marsh would be proud of.

[The Santa of House Claus]

I think that all that would have changed would have been Robb's marriage to Jeyne, but if, and only if Jon was with him at The Cragg, which is no guarantee. Robb would have kept Jon at his side for a lot of the campaign, but he would have wasted Jon by not having him make his own sorties. Had Jin been there, it's unlikely Robb and Jeyne would have formed the bond they did, therefore no marriage and no Red Wedding. Even if Frey had wanted to betray Robb, without the pretense of a wedding the opportunities would have been limited. Robb still would have marched North, but there probably would not have been a feast of any magnitude at the Twins.

Thinking about it, another possibility would be that Jon could have taken over the Outriders for the Blackfish, allowing The Blackfish to stay with Edmure and council him to stick to Robb's orders and plans, therefore luring Tywin back to the Westerlands.

[The Santa of House Claus]

Had Jon gone to treat with the Greyjoys I see very little difference. Balon would have still gone after The North, just no Theon to take Winterfell. I think someone more seasoned should have been sent, maybe a Glover. Therefore not making the mistake of saying "we'll give you the Westerlands" but rather, "we will back your claim for whatever lands you take in our war against The Iron Throne." Yes Balon wanted revenge on the Starks, but given how much richer the Westerlands and the Reach are, I believe that Balon would have balked at first, then thought about it and agreed to an alliance.

[Lee-Sensei]

If it's disrespectful then why was if okay to send littlefinger to teat with the Tyrells? He's a nobody. He's one step above being born with dirt under his nails. Jon atleast has the blood if not the name of a fine and powerful family behind him. Not to mention he has Ghost at his side to keep a civil tongue in Greyjoy's head if not in his actions. So he might not like having to deal with a bastard he will have no choice but to deal with it. Then also what about Bloodraven, before his father legitimized him he was around his royal brother after he was legitimized he proved himself invaluable. He was the one who mostly stopped the Blackfyre rebellion 2 of them. He slew 3 of his relatives and he comes from a respected family in the Trident. The had command of the raven's teeth. Which I could make an argument that the Raven Teeth sounds like something that was a traditional station for house Blackraven. In the princess and the queen Red Robb Rivers had charge of a group of archers called the teeth. He was a bastard but the finest archer in the seven kingdoms at the time and men had no problem following him and he doesn't have a great big wolf that snarls even it's master is even slightly unhappy.

The lords see Robb as a young boy yes, but the greatjon is Robb's feirest supporter after Grey wind eats two of his fingers. So I would like to know who these men will react when Jon is giving orders and they think about doing something or not listening. Then they turn and meet silent death on 4 legs standing behind them?

The comment about Jon and kiss the royal boot was a joke because I can't stand Cat and if she had been alive to receive the news that Jon was really heir to the entire realm I can imagine the bitch swallowing her own tongue and turning a shade of red that even Bowen Marsh would be proud of.

Because Littlefinger is a member of the Small Council. He's at the highest level of the Westerosi government and one of the wealthiest people in the Kingdom? He doesn't have their name. That's part of why he's always angsting.

What? He's going to be threatening Theon? Why? Or do you mean Balon? He's going to go to the Iron Islands and threaten Balon?

So he's going to threaten to kill anyone that he doesn't get along with? I never thought he was that much of a jerk.

Jon isn't the heir to the entire realm. On the Baratheon side of things it's Stannis. On the Targaryen side of things it's Aegon.

[Lee-Sensei]

If it's disrespectful then why was if okay to send littlefinger to teat with the Tyrells? He's a nobody. He's one step above being born with dirt under his nails. Jon atleast has the blood if not the name of a fine and powerful family behind him. Not to mention he has Ghost at his side to keep a civil tongue in Greyjoy's head if not in his actions. So he might not like having to deal with a bastard he will have no choice but to deal with it. Then also what about Bloodraven, before his father legitimized him he was around his royal brother after he was legitimized he proved himself invaluable. He was the one who mostly stopped the Blackfyre rebellion 2 of them. He slew 3 of his relatives and he comes from a respected family in the Trident. The had command of the raven's teeth. Which I could make an argument that the Raven Teeth sounds like something that was a traditional station for house Blackraven. In the princess and the queen Red Robb Rivers had charge of a group of archers called the teeth. He was a bastard but the finest archer in the seven kingdoms at the time and men had no problem following him and he doesn't have a great big wolf that snarls even it's master is even slightly unhappy.

The lords see Robb as a young boy yes, but the greatjon is Robb's feirest supporter after Grey wind eats two of his fingers. So I would like to know who these men will react when Jon is giving orders and they think about doing something or not listening. Then they turn and meet silent death on 4 legs standing behind them?

The comment about Jon and kiss the royal boot was a joke because I can't stand Cat and if she had been alive to receive the news that Jon was really heir to the entire realm I can imagine the bitch swallowing her own tongue and turning a shade of red that even Bowen Marsh would be proud of.

Because Littlefinger is a member of the Small Council. He's at the highest level of the Westerosi government and one of the wealthiest people in the Kingdom? He doesn't have their name. That's part of why he's always angsting.

What? He's going to be threatening Theon? Why? Or do you mean Balon? He's going to go to the Iron Islands and threaten to kill Balon if he doesn't do what Jon says?

So he's going to threaten to kill anyone that he doesn't get along with? I never thought he was that much of a jerk.

Jon isn't the heir to the entire realm. On the Baratheon side it's Stannis. On the Targaryen side it's Aegon.

[Minsc]

If it's disrespectful then why was if okay to send littlefinger to teat with the Tyrells? He's a nobody. He's one step above being born with dirt under his nails.

LF is still a fully fledged trueborn noble, furthermore he is a member of King's Small Council and has been for a number of years. Simply, he is of a higher class then Jon is despite whoever Jon's supposed father is and brother is.

Not to mention he has Ghost at his side to keep a civil tongue in Greyjoy's head if not in his actions. So he might not like having to deal with a bastard he will have no choice but to deal with it.

I doubt that Balon would allow Jon to bring Ghost into his castle or even the mainland, thus Ghost would be of no consequence to ensuring Balon behaved. Furthermore, it is just idiotic to annoy your potential ally by insulting them even if your excuse is that Jon does hold a valuable position in Robb's eyes. Simply, Robb wouldn't send Jon as an envoy to a potential ally claiming kingship.

So I would like to know who these men will react when Jon is giving orders and they think about doing something or not listening. Then they turn and meet silent death on 4 legs standing behind them?

They would probably tell the uppity bastard to shut up while ignoring him, and if Robb was stupid enough to attempt to push the issue he would cause disorder in his ranks. Simply, you aren't going to Highborn Lords accepting of themselves being placed under a green bastard.

that Jon was really heir to the entire realm

The Targs have been deposed (by Ned no less), thus they wouldn't consider Jon the heir of anything even if they believed he was Rhaegar and Lyanna's trueborn son.

[Stoned Dragon]

You think any of Robb's levies are going to take orders from a bastard? They barely listened to Robb half the time. Karstark, Bolton, Umber all proud houses who wouldn't listen to an upjumped greenboy bastard.

Roose Bolton, I doubt, has a problem with legitimated bastards since he just legitimized his own.

But you're right about the Karstarks not being bound enough to Robb, which is why Jon would have been useful down South.

Legitimate Jon Snow and make him heir, and then marry him to Alys Karstark to soothe the division that came after the whole beheading situation. Jon mentions to Stannis once that Ned wanted to resettle people on the gift, and we all know Jon Snow has an affinity for the Night's Watch, so Robb could have settled a legitimated Jon and Alys with some land and holdings and made them a new Stark cadet branch like the Karstarks themselves. Holding the Karstarks in his alliance means Robb doesn't need to go back to the Freys for troops, which butterflys away the RW and leaves Edmure unmarried and useful for other alliances (Maergery Tyrell?

[Minsc]

Roose Bolton, I doubt, has a problem with legitimated bastards since he just legitimized his own.

Roose isn't following Ramsay's orders, thus that isn't relevant to his attitude of being placed under a bastard.

[Lee-Sensei]

The Tyrells are already with the Lannisters and they want the Iron Throne. Also, marriage or no marriage I doubt that the Karstarks are going to rejoin Robb after he beheads Rickard.

[King Rhaego]

I believe that Jon would of been one of the ones selected to be in Robbs battle guard. He wouldnt of been given command of any men until he had atleast proven himself. He could of risen up the ranks much like Black Walder Frey did. If all would of gone well and Robb atleast took back the North maybe Jon is awarded Moat Coalin, and maybe even legitimized. I also agree that having Jon there when Robb recieved the news of Bran and Rickon would of probably removed Jeyne from the mix of comforting.